Grave

[lipstick79 0]

Ron
       MUST B, LAUGHING AT - The JAPANESE.
Ron took Mclaren to - the SECOND Most Successful team.
Enter the JAPANESE - hardly FINNISHING a race !!

[radical-one 0]

I just hope we all stop attacking the JAPANESE....

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

I don't have to defend "the japanese" (I'd rather say Honda, I don't like when people say "the Italians" rather than "Ferrari", it's not the same thing) but without Honda, and Honda's money, Ron would not have achieved much, MP4 didn't achieve anything until TAG/Porsche got involved and after that their big break came when Honda came up with what was the best engine big a very big margin. It's easy to win when you have the best engine. 

I personally think that Ron is/was not such a super-smart team manager, I might be wrong but whenever I ear Ron speak I remember that to be succesful in life you need a lot of hard work AND a lot of luck

[Sakae 0]

Correct understanding of root cause & effect relationships is first step towards tolerance and acceptance of struggle some of us are facing in our lives. IMO it is not about liking or hating anyone, but understanding and patience towards those who do strive for advancement; be it a child in the school striving for better marks, or Honda making better PU. Excessive expectations, unrealistic timeline are all based on erroneous assumptions and it is not helping.

[radical-one 0]

Let's leave the JAPANESE in this discussion as I get offended. I am a naturalized Japanese, my wife is Japanese and my son is half Japanese. Let's keep it as HONDA.

HONDA, yes , Honda for the last 3 seasons and probably even until now is the worst PU in the grid we all know this. But I'd like to defend them simply for 3 things below;

1 - They can still improve and they are trying to do that for the sake of the sport and they are working on their own issues without creating trouble or fuzz with the other PU

manufacturers. They mind their own business. Even when the rest of F1 world were making fun of them, they kept their mouths shut and not fight back. Simply professional. 

2 - They never cheat or put in any trick in their PU to get ahead or advantage. Good for motorsports.

3 -  They pay their bills. You never hear Honda owing money to anyone. Good business ethics. 

And for those reasons, I respect Honda. They may have failed in their endeavor to win but they did not screw F1 up.

And they haven't given up, instead keep on fighting like real samurais. I wish some of us can look at them as role models in some ways rather than mocking at their failures. I see their past failures as sweeteners to their future successes...

 Hope they get some break soon.

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

you have made 3 very good points. I have often been critical of Honda in the last 3 years, in fairness IMHO their biggest mistake was that they didn't fully realise that the odds were against them, on the one hand the rules were designed around a single manufacturer on the other the development restrictions (ie tokens etc) and the testing ban means that they are not allowed to catch up.

In effect no one is really fully allowed to catch up, Mercedes created the PU concept and were the first with their PUs ready and have therefore had a significant advantage from day one, and that advantage hasn't gone away (otherwise we wouldn't have the thread on Mercedes Party Mode... it's a simple matter of logic).

Ferrari was the first of the challengers to start working on the PUs and their engine, from day one, has been the second in terms of power, BUT they never really catched up despite doing all they could, both technically and financially, to close the gap with Mercedes.

Then there was Renault, third in coming to the party and what a coincidence they (still) have the 3rd most powerful PU (and they can't catch up...). Sure, Renault won some races with Red Bull but I rest my case, I want to look at the fuel consumption figures for RBR's PUs before I truly believe that there was no foul play.

Honda was the last who joined the game and sadly, for them and for the rest of us (because, let's be honest, no competition means boring races), they couldn't catch up. IMHO Honda's biggest error was that they underestimated the rules, if they knew that they faced an almost impossible task and accepted that and against all odds somehow they will manage to come closer to Renault and Ferrari I'll take my hat off to them (I didn't forget Mercedes, I think that no one will fully catch up with them before a new engine formula has been introduced).

The problem is that I'm a bit cynical and I fear that until 2021 the music will be more or less the same, ie. Mercedes on top, Ferrari right behind them but when it matters Mercedes pulls away, Renault with the odd good race, and Honda doing all they can.

[radical-one 0]

Yes true. It seems that we can expect party much the same results for year to come until an entirely new Engine rule/specs are introduced. Ferrari and RB can snatch a few races outta Mercs but will need divine intervention to win the championship. Good for Merc but not totally for the sports unfortunately.

I also thought of a 2 tier championship being introduced. Such as, first level/top level championship for the WORKS team and Mid-field championship for the privateers.

That way the mid-field will have their own championship battle rather than being considered back markers. This concept is done in GT series in Japan where 1st tier is the GT500 and 2nd is GT300 but they race the same time all the time just different point system. 2 different engine mode. It makes for good excitement. Just a thought.

[radical-one 0]

Then suddenly TR-Honda comes alive....