lipstick79

Embarrassing

49 posts in this topic

How embarrassing for Renault F1, to B beaten by Mclaren powered by Renault.  
Mclaren has put the failed Honda project years behind them.
Whilst taking the title, best of the rest.  Mclaren should also have the title, most improved team.

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1 hour ago, lipstick79 said:

How embarrassing for Renault F1, to B beaten by Mclaren powered by Renault.  
Mclaren has put the failed Honda project years behind them.
Whilst taking the title, best of the rest.  Mclaren should also have the title, most improved team.

Perhaps being a "Works Team", whilst helpful label, it however doesn't captures everything required to get to the top.

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It is NOT the first time that Renault HAS been beaten by a customer team
Red Bull Racing also bettered the works team, before moving to Honda power.
Mclaren switching places with Red Bull Racing 2 B powered by Renault

Edited by lipstick79

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Well, full equation needs to be in sharp balance, and it involves strategy, driver, tires, chassis, aero-parts, PU, and much more. Renault in distant past won many race with less horses than their rivals. It comes to drivability, etc. I do not have any inside what is (are?) their issue, but, in speculative terms, could be they are -- financially -- on slow slide to Tier 2 status. I hope I am wrong here. Pressure from Carlos, just as Sergio at Ferrari (I've never thought I say so), is missing.

Edited by Sakae

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With fondness I cherish memories on their superb engines from Prost era. Debate about Renault v. Honda and which engine was better, that discussion continues (at least in my mind). I am inclined to give a win to Renault.

Edited by Sakae

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1 hour ago, Sakae said:

 Debate about Renault v. Honda and which engine was better, that discussion continues (at least in my mind). I am inclined to give a win to Renault.

Honda LEFT F1 - confirmin the voices in UR head were right.
Until Ron Dennis brought them BACK 
Though Mclaren DUMPED Honda for Renault.  To reunite with Mercedes.
As a CUSTOMER team.
Williams R a Mercedes customer team, with 1 point
I`m thinkin Mclaren SHOULD B a WORKS team - FREE PU 
Cosworth - the BEST of British 
Marketin possibilities !!!

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We need to wait for final plan for a new agreement with teams. (Concorde, as it were.) Only then we will learn what they will do with hybrids, as of this moment there are forces in play for retaining hybrids, just as those yearning for return to normally aspirated engines. I suspect hybrids in some shape or form will stay with the stated goal (by Liberty?) to go green in F1. I'am not sure how that will work. Cosworth has no resources as we heard recently, and is not competent today to start with a hybrid project on which Mercedes is working probably some 9 years or more. 

Edited by Sakae

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AMuS

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Exclusive: The FIA has seized parts of the fuel system of Ferrari, one Ferrari customer and one Non-Ferrari. A thorough investigation of the parts will be conducted in the FIA laboratories.

This is embarrassing; more for FiA than Ferrari. They make rules so complicated that you need forensic scientist to determine legality of the innovation which has been now declared as cheating on various forums, media and in paddock ahead of investigation. I can't phantom logic of that. When we will discover the same on rival's car, than we will know how it got there. Protection for Hamilton needs to be preserved.

Edited by Sakae

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On 19/11/2019 at 7:42 AM, Sakae said:

 Cosworth has no resources as we heard recently, and is not competent today to start with a hybrid project on which Mercedes is working probably some 9 years or more. 

On 18/11/2019 at 9:49 PM, Sakae said:

 

My understanding IS, that Cosworth would NOT need to START developing a hybrid PU 
Cosworth HAVE a hybrid PU, but NO customers - they CONTINUED the R&D in the V8 era WHEN they HAD customers.
I had hoped my team (Mclaren) WOULD sign with Cosworth AFTER they left Mercedes.
But Ron went for the $$$$ Instead selling out, to the failed Honda project.
In turn, then the reliability of Renault to keep Alonso - B4 he left F1

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2 hours ago, Sakae said:

AMuS

This is embarrassing; more for FiA than Ferrari. They make rules so complicated that you need forensic scientist to determine legality of the innovation which has been now declared as cheating on various forums, media and in paddock ahead of investigation. I can't phantom logic of that. When we will discover the same on rival's car, than we will know how it got there. Protection for Hamilton needs to be preserved.

 

Oh....I think it is pretty damn embarrassing for Ferrari. Added to that, they were not among the top two teams at Brazil either, further confirming the advantage they were getting for six races. 

At this point, it is clear that Ferrari was cheating and they have been caught. So the question becomes....what should be the penalty?

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7 hours ago, lipstick79 said:

My understanding IS, that Cosworth would NOT need to START developing a hybrid PU 
Cosworth HAVE a hybrid PU, but NO customers - they CONTINUED the R&D in the V8 era WHEN they HAD customers.
I had hoped my team (Mclaren) WOULD sign with Cosworth AFTER they left Mercedes.
But Ron went for the $$$$ Instead selling out, to the failed Honda project.
In turn, then the reliability of Renault to keep Alonso - B4 he left F1

Honda also thought they had race ready hybrid when they replaced Mercedes, yet we all know what followed once lights went off on the grid. You need proper comparative testing to make promise to your customer that 3 competitive engines will last a season. Since such tests are disallowed, one would wonder about source of Cossworth's confidence that they have what it takes. Lastly, would Cossworth also pay Alonso's demanded salary as Honda has?

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Sorry Ruslan, but I think we need to wait for FiA to conclude whatever they are doing. There is no need for any finger-pointing today.

Edited by Sakae

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I feel privileged for being able to (at least) read Publius's contributions, despite being deprived from participating. Knowledge, balanced point of view, fairness. It is pleasure to be (internet) acquainted with that man. His is most untainted assessment of the conflict at Ferrari in the last race, that I've read thus far.    

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15 hours ago, Sakae said:

Honda also thought they had race ready hybrid when they replaced Mercedes,

??? Ron brought Honda BACK into F1 with Mclaren 
Mclaren had the MANY DNF`s whilst Honda worked the new era out.
It IS thanks 2 Ron & Mclaren, that Red Bull R WINNING not whinging with Honda
 

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I think you have to ask, whether Honda wasn't kicked out from McLaren, and on their way home, until RBR pick them up. Without RBR, where would Honda be in F1? Point was however, that DR would not have made any sentimental deals, had his crystal ball told him what's waiting for him? More importantly, had Honda knew how difficult it is going to turn up, would they agreed to come back? Cosworth wants clients and they think it will be better than Honda had it? Pretty big risky idea that is.

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Re: ...  until RBR pick them up  ...

RBR did NOT pick Honda up - Toro Rosso R the works Honda team !!!

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Re:

Perhaps being a "Works Team", whilst helpful label, it however doesn't captures everything required to get to the top.

> Bein a "Works Team" has NOT caused ANY issues for Mercedes, Ferrari  - Alonso won HIS WDC`s with, the Renault "Works Team".
In turn, bein a "Works Team" REPEATEDLY captures everything required to get to the top - WDC

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19 hours ago, Sakae said:

Sorry Ruslan, but I think we need to wait for FiA to conclude whatever they are doing. There is no need for any finger-pointing today.

Well, FIA has just issued their third technical directive on the subject, so probably something is going on.  Again......we are probably looking at a cheat, instead of a simple issue of interpretation of the rules. So there probably needs to be some penalties. I wonder what they will be.

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6 hours ago, lipstick79 said:

Re: ...  until RBR pick them up  ...

RBR did NOT pick Honda up - Toro Rosso R the works Honda team !!!

:D Right, right you are. For me this is all one organization. Without RBR being involved, this pick up would not happened. (The same person with deep pockets.) Please also note that it is usually Horner who speaks about the relationship with Japanese automaker.

Edited by Sakae

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4 hours ago, Ruslan said:

Well, FIA has just issued their third technical directive on the subject, so probably something is going on.  Again......we are probably looking at a cheat, instead of a simple issue of interpretation of the rules. So there probably needs to be some penalties. I wonder what they will be.

I haven't seen it, but purpose of issuing technical directive seems different one, from issuing indictment against Ferrari. But then, I am not a lawyer, nor I play one on TV or on a sport forum. :P

It was noted, that especially in British media, they spend considerable amount of time damning Ferrari already. 

Edited by Sakae

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8 hours ago, lipstick79 said:

??? Ron brought Honda BACK into F1 with Mclaren 
Mclaren had the MANY DNF`s whilst Honda worked the new era out.
It IS thanks 2 Ron & Mclaren, that Red Bull R WINNING not whinging with Honda
 

That's one way to look at it. I am not McLaren's fan, and I am not paying attention as much perhaps as you do.

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https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/11/22/fia-seizure-of-fuel-systems-just-a-routine-check/

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Ruslan: Well, FIA has just issued their third technical directive on the subject, so probably something is going on. 

Yes, routine check is on, says FiA. In terms of damnation rendered thus far, I say, these days narrative in alternative interpretation of facts takes on a lot of beating. 

Edited by Sakae

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9 hours ago, Sakae said:

https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/11/22/fia-seizure-of-fuel-systems-just-a-routine-check/

Yes, routine check is on, says FiA. In terms of damnation rendered thus far, I say, these days narrative in alternative interpretation of facts takes on a lot of beating. 

A "routine check" that includes three new technical directives and the seizure of Ferrari's fuel system.

 

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