70 replies to this topic

[Max Mosley]

YHR, on Oct 11 2008, 11:23 PM, said:

That is exactly my point.  It Is different.  Driving an indy car with turbo boost and steel brakes is a lot different then an F1 car.  I hate to do this to people, but show me one quote where a driver said F1 is  flat out harder.  Most of them go on to quaify their answer first by saying how different it is.

JV said:

F1 is the top level of motorsport racing so anything else could only be acceptable if you have the security of coming back afterwards.

Irvine said:

I wouldn't race in CART because it is not Formula One--it's second-rate. You see guys go from Formula One to CART. Nigell Mansell went over there and killed everyone--Alex Zanardi went over there and killed everyone, and came back to Formula One and was nowhere. Juan Montoya has killed everyone, and next year he will be in F1, so we will see where he is at. He does seem good, but Formula One is where you find out. It seems to be quite easy, in a way, to look like a hero in the United States.

Irvine and JV.

Have you thought about why every driver finds their team mates more of a challenge in F1 than any other open-wheel series?

Rainmaster, on Oct 11 2008, 11:29 PM, said:

I guess we are both wrong then, since it's four Still though he was one of the most successful drivers in CCWS history, according to Wikipedia (so it must be true).

Yeah and according to Wiki, that was 4 championships out of the total 5 seasons he entered!

Rainmaster, on Oct 11 2008, 11:29 PM, said:

But see we disagree again, sort of, because I still think most people would rate Jenson quite highly if you reminded them he was there. I think it's more the case that people forget about you, because the press just move onto the next guy, like in Britain with Hamilton and Jenson.

Yup.

[freaky2]

Rainmaster, on Oct 12 2008, 12:19 AM, said:

Yeah I know, I should really live up to my bad boy reputation!

Yeah, or you might find me agreeing with someone else

[Rainmaster]

freaky2, on Oct 12 2008, 12:53 AM, said:

Yeah, or you might find me agreeing with someone else

Don't even joke about that!

[YHR]

Murray Walker, on Oct 11 2008, 05:38 PM, said:

Irvine and JV.

Have you thought about why every driver finds their team mates more of a challenge in F1 than any other open-wheel series?


Yeah and according to Wiki, that was 4 championships out of the total 5 seasons he entered!


Yup.

Those quotes do nothing.  Irvine had an opinion, but never having raced in America his opinion is no better then ours.  I never doubted JV said F1 is the pinnacle of motor sport, I am just saying you would be hard pressed to find a quote, where a driver who has driven in both, would ever come right out and say F1 is harder.  It is the the top level, and it very different experience in driving .  Harder, I am not so sure.  No clutches, anti spin, used to be traction control, all of these things could be argued make driving F1 easier then indycar.

[Max Mosley]

YHR, on Oct 12 2008, 02:08 AM, said:

Those quotes do nothing.  Irvine had an opinion, but never having raced in America his opinion is no better then ours.  I never doubted JV said F1 is the pinnacle of motor sport, I am just saying you would be hard pressed to find a quote, where a driver who has driven in both, would ever come right out and say F1 is harder.  It is the the top level, and it very different experience in driving .  Harder, I am not so sure.  No clutches, anti spin, used to be traction control, all of these things could be argued make driving F1 easier then indycar.

Yes you're right.  But I think that's probably because they don't want to insult the people they worked with in CART etc.   Here's another quote from JV.  This one seems pretty clear cut.  All you have to bear in mind is that when he said this, JV had recently been rejected from F1 and signed up to NASCAR, so we can safely discount any praise he gives NASCAR.  The rest should be accurate.

Quote

These days, NASCAR isn’t a step down from F1.  And, because of that, it’s something you can do without thinking you’re giving up on your career – just as Montoya has done.  Le Mans, sports cars, DTM, IRL, Champ Car? Well, I’m sorry, but they’re all a step down from F1. NASCAR isn’t.  Actually, GP2 is probably above Champ Car and IRL at the moment.  An F1 team wouldn’t seriously consider a Champ Car driver or an IRL driver these days, but they look closely at GP2 drivers all the time.  In fact an F1 team would probably consider a NASCAR driver before a Champ Car driver or an IRL driver – perhaps they’d even prefer to consider a Moto GP rider.  And that shows the relative value of all those series.

[YHR]

Murray Walker, on Oct 12 2008, 07:35 AM, said:

Yes you're right.  But I think that's probably because they don't want to insult the people they worked with in CART etc.   Here's another quote from JV.  This one seems pretty clear cut.  All you have to bear in mind is that when he said this, JV had recently been rejected from F1 and signed up to NASCAR, so we can safely discount any praise he gives NASCAR.  The rest should be accurate.

Again Murray, he never says it is harder, just that it is a cut above the rest.  It is also clear that JV at the time thinks IRL and CART only only a shadow of what they used to be.  I have never argued the point that F1 is the pinnacle of Motorsport, but that fact alone does not suddenly make it the hardest to drive well in.  That is your opinion, not mine, and as I mentioned you will be hard pressed to find a driver who has competed in any series say one is harder then the other.  They are different, and a driver knows you just can't make a comparison like that.  Too many other factors are in play to simplify it to one word.

As I mentioned, looking at Montoya's adventure in Nascar, he might very well tell you success in Nascar is the hardest of the lot, and guess what, he might be right!!!!

Best, and hardest, (with respect to racing) aren't neccesarily mutually inclusive.

As a matter of fact some of the best drivers on the planet might very well be rally car drivers.  Open wheel F1, just isn't their cup of tea.

Edited by YHR, 12 October 2008 - 01:50 PM.

[Max Mosley]

Jacques Villeneuve said:

An F1 team wouldn’t seriously consider a Champ Car driver or an IRL driver these days, but they look closely at GP2 drivers all the time.

Why does JV say this, YHR?  Do they just like the look of GP2 drivers?  Or do they maybe think they are better?

[YHR]

Murray Walker, on Oct 12 2008, 07:54 AM, said:

Why does JV say this, YHR?  Do they just like the look of GP2 drivers?  Or do they maybe think they are better?

Because drivers in GP2 are more inline with what is required to be in F1.  They race on the same tracks, same type of cars.  Turbo boosted Indycars that race on ovals and street circuits do nothing to prepare a driver for F1.  Come on Murray, are you tired or something????

GP2 drivers are better suited to drive an F1 car.  DUH.  F1 is less hard for them to adapt to then it is for an indycar driver.  So a GP 2 driver would find F1 easier then Indycar.  See why the whole "harder" idea is flawed. It all depends on so many other things, that you can't claim one level to be the hardest.

Edited by YHR, 12 October 2008 - 05:33 PM.

[Max Mosley]

  OK this is why I wasn't too keen to get into a debate again.  I think you must speak a different language in Canada.  Villeneuve clearly says that F1 teams prefer virtually anyone but Champ Car/IRL drivers because of the 'value of those series'.  They are all 'a step down from F1'.  He says F1 teams would prefer NASCAR and Moto GP racers; and you're telling me riding a bike or driving a truck is closer to F1 than CCWS/IRL.  Each to his own, then.

Jacques Villeneuve said:

These days, NASCAR isn’t a step down from F1. And, because of that, it’s something you can do without thinking you’re giving up on your career – just as Montoya has done. Le Mans, sports cars, DTM, IRL, Champ Car? Well, I’m sorry, but they’re all a step down from F1. NASCAR isn’t. Actually, GP2 is probably above Champ Car and IRL at the moment. An F1 team wouldn’t seriously consider a Champ Car driver or an IRL driver these days, but they look closely at GP2 drivers all the time. In fact an F1 team would probably consider a NASCAR driver before a Champ Car driver or an IRL driver – perhaps they’d even prefer to consider a Moto GP rider. And that shows the relative value of all those series.

[Kopite Girl]

Mmm. Eddie Irvine. Who gives a sh*t what he says, not interested in that. He had a big mouth. Well, that may not be such a bad thing... *drifts off*

Sorry. Anyway - he was a sexist pig. But I still would.

I see what you're saying Murray - or rather what JV saying... but wasn't he a bit of a gasbag too. I think if you asked a driver who came from NASCAR to F1, you'd get a rather different answer....

[YHR]

Murray Walker, on Oct 12 2008, 11:47 AM, said:

  OK this is why I wasn't too keen to get into a debate again.  I think you must speak a different language in Canada.  Villeneuve clearly says that F1 teams prefer virtually anyone but Champ Car/IRL drivers because of the 'value of those series'.  They are all 'a step down from F1'.  He says F1 teams would prefer NASCAR and Moto GP racers; and you're telling me riding a bike or driving a truck is closer to F1 than CCWS/IRL.  Each to his own, then.

???  I'll just let this go.  You are not getting my point, and seem intent on getting me to agree to your opinion that F1 is the hardest form of racing in motorsport.

I disagree for the reason I stated, and believe it is too subjective and unwise to try an simply the sport to that degree.  Far too many other factors come into play when making the comparison.  Apples and oranges so to speak.   You can have your opinion on what is hardest, but that opinion is impossible to defend.  Try arguing an apple is better then an orange.  Again just be objective and realize the folly of defending the statement.

   If common sense is a different language then I guess in general Canadians are guilty of speaking it.