13 replies to this topic

[lewisthegreat2]

If you've ever been to Crapwagon, you probably know where I got my info (could be worse, I could post the National Enquirer article that Dale Earnhardt, Jr. is in a "death spiral").

In 2008, Ben Johnston purchased all of the Panoz DP01s and planned to race them in a series called Green Prix USA in 2009.  GPUSA never happened, though the occasional hint it might in 2010 would appear (they started selling some merchandise etc).

Now, Mazda and the Atlantic Championship planned to make "key announcements" at the PRI Trade Show, and this little picture's shown up:



Sounds like an electric DP01.

They seem to have a few logos on the car from sponsors.

Perhaps we'll see this take off.  Perhaps we won't.  Electric is certainly an interesting concept when you consider the manufactures working on it.  I suppose we'll see December 10.

[Negative Ions]

Brilliant.

[mikathegreat2]

I'm not sure! The electric hybrid motor will add a fair bit of weight & I think it's also to get the dying Atlantic Championship back on its feet!

[lewisthegreat2]

mikathegreat2, on 11 November 2009 - 04:29 PM, said:

I'm not sure! The electric hybrid motor will add a fair bit of weight & I think it's also to get the dying Atlantic Championship back on its feet!

I do have some doubts about running at high speeds for a long period of time with an electric motor, which is why I'd think they'd go with a hybrid, but the ad says "all-electric."  The Ginetta-Zytek 09SH campaigned in ALMS by Corsa Motorsport has a nice hybrid-electric system.

I can't lie and say that Atlantics are doing very well right now, but I wouldn't say the series is in jeopardy.  Vicki O'Connor and IMSA are committed to the series, and HDNet in the US did show a handful of the races.  It's unfortunate that Tony Cotman of the IRL is a complete traitor and wants the Atlantics dead.  Why's that, Tony?  Scared because they're faster than your Indy Lights?  That said, Mazda and Cooper Tires are still with Atlantics, and there are rumors it may become a two-make formula with VW supplying engines in a few years in addition to Mazda.  Car count is a problem, though driver talent hasn't been.

That said, I wonder if Green Prix will share the track with Atlantics in a two-class division, much like LMS/ALMS.  A lot of the merchandise seemed to have both Atlantics branding and Green Prix branding, and if Atlantics are making an announcement, too, perhaps this means we'll see the Panoz as a C1 class, Atlantics as C2, and what was C2 in Atlantics as C3 for three classes (Atlantics had two last year).  It would certainly be a win-win, as a Green Prix TV deal would mean Atlantics would also be shown, helping them get sponsors and a higher car count.

It's a dream scenario, though, and I'm certainly skeptical.  Still, I'd be really excited to see Green Prix actually happen.

[Schumikonen]

I am not sure which of the Yes should I pick,   but of course I like it.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

lewisthegreat2, on 11 November 2009 - 03:29 AM, said:

Perhaps we'll see this take off.  Perhaps we won't.  Electric is certainly an interesting concept when you consider the manufactures working on it.  I suppose we'll see December 10.

Yeah but one thing will be missing unless they fit Alpine stereos and speakers to the cars - the lack of noise - I can't imagine 20+ cars whirring their way around a track.... you need the ear-splitting scream as they race past....

[Autumnpuma]

lewisthegreat2, on 11 November 2009 - 03:29 AM, said:

Now, Mazda and the Atlantic Championship planned to make "key announcements" at the PRI Trade Show, and this little picture's shown up:

5.5 mb is not a 'little' picture.

As to the electric F1-style racing car...it's been done. Early '80s Long Beach (I think) support race was all electric cars. Boring as hell.

The only good side to electric motors is the steep torque curve you get with them. But still boring as hell.

[lewisthegreat2]

Schumikonen, on 11 November 2009 - 05:00 PM, said:

I am not sure which of the Yes should I pick,   but of course I like it.

That's why it's multi-choice; pick both

meanioni, on 11 November 2009 - 11:24 PM, said:

Yeah but one thing will be missing unless they fit Alpine stereos and speakers to the cars - the lack of noise - I can't imagine 20+ cars whirring their way around a track.... you need the ear-splitting scream as they race past....

Well, considering how the US feels about racing without fenders, chances are there will only be two cars whirring, and no spectators to hear it, so...

I'm not sure how I feel about engine noise.  It's terrible if there isn't any, but it's kind of cheesy if it's fake.

Autumnpuma, on 12 November 2009 - 01:38 AM, said:

5.5 mb is not a 'little' picture.

As to the electric F1-style racing car...it's been done. Early '80s Long Beach (I think) support race was all electric cars. Boring as hell.

The only good side to electric motors is the steep torque curve you get with them. But still boring as hell.

Not my capture, I nabbed it from someone else, so don't blame me.

Interesting...I hadn't know that.  What was the cause of boringness?  Was it specifically some fault of the electric motors?

I think it's worth a try if they're going to try a Champ Car-like series again.  They're not going to get anywhere just being a copy of what already failed, or trying to beat IndyCar at doing IndyCar (admittedly, I'd like to see changes in IndyCar, but the establish series with the teams and drivers and races is going to win).  They have to do something unique to generate interest.

[Negative Ions]

its true, if they dont make much of a sound it would be rather less interesting. Funny.

[Autumnpuma]

lewisthegreat2, on 12 November 2009 - 02:47 AM, said:

Interesting...I hadn't know that.  What was the cause of boringness?  Was it specifically some fault of the electric motors?

Yup. All you heard was the squeal of the rubber round the bendy bits and a whoosh of air. It's only when the sound is gone that you appreciate how much a thrumming motor adds to motorsports.

lewisthegreat2, on 12 November 2009 - 02:47 AM, said:

I think it's worth a try if they're going to try a Champ Car-like series again.  They're not going to get anywhere just being a copy of what already failed, or trying to beat IndyCar at doing IndyCar (admittedly, I'd like to see changes in IndyCar, but the establish series with the teams and drivers and races is going to win).  They have to do something unique to generate interest.

See? This is why I've been banging on about the nature of motorsports recently. You're approaching this from the wrong direction. A motor race done for the racing's sake generates far more interest than a concocted gimmick or unique idea. If open-wheel hasn't caught on here in America....well, we're a different culture from Europe and perhaps we should accept that there's no interest here and move on.

[Schumikonen]

lewisthegreat2, on 12 November 2009 - 02:47 AM, said:

That's why it's multi-choice; pick both

  I didn't know I could do that.

[lewisthegreat2]

Autumnpuma, on 12 November 2009 - 11:20 PM, said:

Yup. All you heard was the squeal of the rubber round the bendy bits and a whoosh of air. It's only when the sound is gone that you appreciate how much a thrumming motor adds to motorsports.

See? This is why I've been banging on about the nature of motorsports recently. You're approaching this from the wrong direction. A motor race done for the racing's sake generates far more interest than a concocted gimmick or unique idea. If open-wheel hasn't caught on here in America....well, we're a different culture from Europe and perhaps we should accept that there's no interest here and move on.

To each their own.  I imagine most traditionalists will feel the same.  If watching on TV, I can't say I care what noise it makes.  In person, actually, I can't say I care then either.  I've seen a few races with limited engine noise (mostly from my indoor karting days, and back when they had a youth Mini Cup series at the local track that used lawnmower engines) and it doesn't bother me; I can't say I prefer it but it doesn't bother me.

I don't disagree, but it's not going to catch on in the USA without a gimmick.  Trust me, I'd love to see motor racing be more "pure" with innovation and variety and all that, but not every series is supposed to be like that.  If they were, we'd only need one series because they'd have no identity.  I view US open wheel as an inferior league to F1; like GP2 or F3 or F2 or whatever, it's allowed to not be about pure racing.  I'm not going to not watch just because they're all using electric motors; I have to admit, I've fallen for the gimmick, so call me whatever kind of terrible new age fan you want.  If I didn't watch races that weren't true to motor racing's spirit, I'd have no races to watch.  I think it's an interesting concept.  It's surely not going to be the pinnacle of auto racing, but it's not entirely impossible that a few suppliers could come on board and try to make the most badass silent killer of a motor out there.  I think I'd enjoy that, even if it is forcing teams to innovate the way the series wants them to, but I have different standards.  In F1, I find it dumb because there's the talent, money, and interest to let them make up their own minds.  In the USA, there isn't.  I'm not sure many want to try the electric motor in racing only because they fear they'll fail (in most racing series, the races are too long to do it, so they would get crushed), but manufactures probably would like a place to test it.  It's fake, it's a gimmick, blah blah blah...but it's almost necessary.  Besides, I'd rather see this than NASCAR and IndyCar who fix races and manipulate them to get the outcomes they want through allowing illegal cars to certain drivers on given weekends (Dale Jr at the Pepsi 400 in 2001 is one of many...even some of the drivers felt the race was fixed, especially given the circumstances) or throwing random cautions and penalties (Hélio Castroneves getting a blocking penalty in Detroit in 2008 so Justin Wilson could win while his team owner was in the final months of his life).  That's a worse gimmick in my mind.

To each their own, though.

[mikathegreat2]

Made my mind up & no! I don't mind new ways of making single seater racing more economical (except diesel) but electric motors?? Nah, extra weight & complete silence & single seater racing is all about super lightweight cars & lots of noise!

[Autumnpuma]

lewisthegreat2, on 13 November 2009 - 11:26 PM, said:

To each their own.  I imagine most traditionalists will feel the same.  If watching on TV, I can't say I care what noise it makes.  In person, actually, I can't say I care then either.  I've seen a few races with limited engine noise (mostly from my indoor karting days, and back when they had a youth Mini Cup series at the local track that used lawnmower engines) and it doesn't bother me; I can't say I prefer it but it doesn't bother me.

I don't disagree, but it's not going to catch on in the USA without a gimmick.  Trust me, I'd love to see motor racing be more "pure" with innovation and variety and all that, but not every series is supposed to be like that.  If they were, we'd only need one series because they'd have no identity.  I view US open wheel as an inferior league to F1; like GP2 or F3 or F2 or whatever, it's allowed to not be about pure racing.  I'm not going to not watch just because they're all using electric motors; I have to admit, I've fallen for the gimmick, so call me whatever kind of terrible new age fan you want.  If I didn't watch races that weren't true to motor racing's spirit, I'd have no races to watch.  I think it's an interesting concept.  It's surely not going to be the pinnacle of auto racing, but it's not entirely impossible that a few suppliers could come on board and try to make the most badass silent killer of a motor out there.  I think I'd enjoy that, even if it is forcing teams to innovate the way the series wants them to, but I have different standards.  In F1, I find it dumb because there's the talent, money, and interest to let them make up their own minds.  In the USA, there isn't.  I'm not sure many want to try the electric motor in racing only because they fear they'll fail (in most racing series, the races are too long to do it, so they would get crushed), but manufactures probably would like a place to test it.  It's fake, it's a gimmick, blah blah blah...but it's almost necessary.  Besides, I'd rather see this than NASCAR and IndyCar who fix races and manipulate them to get the outcomes they want through allowing illegal cars to certain drivers on given weekends (Dale Jr at the Pepsi 400 in 2001 is one of many...even some of the drivers felt the race was fixed, especially given the circumstances) or throwing random cautions and penalties (Hélio Castroneves getting a blocking penalty in Detroit in 2008 so Justin Wilson could win while his team owner was in the final months of his life).  That's a worse gimmick in my mind.

To each their own, though.

Well said. I've been taking a hard stand on what I think are motorsports' 'core values', but it's only to get people to remember them again. It's easy to get swept up in the politics and crap. None of what I've been saying applies to those that really think the new face of motorsports is ok. I'm fine with agreeing to disagree.