cavallino

Yay Fisichella To Ferrari

37 posts in this topic

Hey, Cav, you are pretty arogant dismissing Alonso in Ferrari for the next year, considering a possibility of a Raikkonen/Alonso swap. Nothing really changed, as Fisi will become a reserve driver in 2010. Also, my understanding is that Ferrari was talking with Kubica, but his foolish demand to have a driver's seat for 2010 made them chose Fisichela instead.

So, nothing has been decided other than Badoer losing his test seat at Ferrari. I really feel sorry for him.

Kubica to Ferrari is good, Alonso to Ferrari isn't.

This is the end of the road for Fisi. Perhaps he thought it's good to die with the boots on. Or perhaps, it's a calculated(?) gamble. "I'll beat the pants off Kimi in next 6 races, replace him next year." Brave move anyhow.

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And then, the lewisterics gather up screaming, naturally, as they hallucinate opportunities to lynch Alonso at every turn. At least that is fun to see.

Here we f**king go again!! BTW, I think Fisi dissapointed in the 2005-06 period when Renault had the bast cars! He may have got a couple of wins but Nando got a couple of WDC's with the same cars Fisi raced in! In my opinio,n I don't think Fisi will have the pace to impress Ferrari! Not that they'll be paying Fisi any attention!

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Now, the cons. We have also seen him struggling way too much with competitive cars, more than could be explainable considering just the fact that the cars were not built around him. Those famous two seconds a lap with Nando were obviously not a sign on how blindingly fast was Nando but more of Giancarlo's shortcomings.

What were his shortcomings, as you see them, and how do those shortcomings fit when you also consider his occasional great drives? Certainly a bad driver will continue to be bad....?

Understeer, schmindlesteer, if he can't cope with understeer in F1 then he should rather consider WRC or drifting competitions.

You're not putting much thought into this. Your statement sounds great but it's far too simple. Understeer and oversteer have always been, and will always be, part of what a driver has to deal with. Each driver has his own driving style and that style's effectiveness (and subsequent lap times) is determined by understeer and oversteer. Not all drivers can change their styles to completely compensate. Fish had a unique situation at Renault to deal with in this regard.

As a basic, general rule a driver with a classic style of normal to wide entry and early, smooth power-on-exit will tend to want a pointy car. These drivers hate exit-oversteer. If those classic drivers encounter understeer on entry, they have only one way of dealing with it, and that's to go slower on entry (to allow more grip at the front) which will kill lap-times. The only other alternative is to induce oversteer on entry, but that also induces snap oversteer on exit...as I've said, not something a classic driver likes. Most drivers, including Fish, fall into this category. The other category of driver includes those that can deal with snap oversteer on exit. These drivers are more effective at dealing with an understeery car. Alonso famously wanted a very understeery car because his natural style is to brake a bit late and violently turn-in. Combine that with the rear-heavy disposition of that Renault and you can see why Fish had a devil of a time dealing with that sort of car.

EDIT: I removed the arrogance. I'm too tired to play that tune....

Edited by Autumnpuma

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Kubica to Ferrari is good, Alonso to Ferrari isn't.

This is the end of the road for Fisi. Perhaps he thought it's good to die with the boots on. Or perhaps, it's a calculated(?) gamble. "I'll beat the pants off Kimi in next 6 races, replace him next year." Brave move anyhow.

I see where you're going with this and I agree. No matter how effective Fish is, there are contracts likely in place that will determine who drives a Ferrari next year. It'll probably be Alonso and Kimi will probably be in the WRC. Fish's only hope is a scenario where he destroys Kimi and at the same time Massa is declared unfit to ever drive again. Then he can move into a seat beside Alonso at Ferrari....and wouldn't that be like someone p!ssing in Fish's gelato?

Likely scenario will be 1) Alonso to Ferrari, 2) Kimi to WRC, 3)Fish retires, 4)Massa rejoins the grid and we have the cute little garden troll back behind the wheel of a Ferrari.

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My impression is Fisi was never enthousiastic about testing. Still it would be better to just retire and stick to a testing role, keep driving those toys without the performance stress. As if we haven't seen how a Fisi-Alonso lineup turns out.

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I think the issue is Ferrari. WTF are they thinking? Gene should've gotten the drive from the get-go. We are talking about the latest winner of LeMans, ffs. It's absurdity upon absurdity from Ferrari. Another dive for F1, not because of Fisi, but because it shows how fcked up is yet another F1 team.

Nobody deserved that drive more than Gene: many years there, fit, loyal, good driver, LeMans winner... Ferrari are doing very strange things lately and I hope they change the decission making (Schumacher?) if Alonso goes there or the story could end in tears. They had Gene but they give Badoer a chance to realise he is not up for the mission and then they still have to take Fisichella from Force India for a few races. I'm sure Ferrari can do much better but I still can't see Alonso driving there even with Santander as a sponsor.

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What were his shortcomings, as you see them, and how do those shortcomings fit when you also consider his occasional great drives? Certainly a bad driver will continue to be bad....?

Ahh...meaningful posts! We get so few of these lately! Ok, Mike, as you know, I am hardly qualified to give you a satisfying reply, but I will try to give you further details on my comments about Fisi (which should have been taken only half seriously, anyways)

Fisi's Shortcomings: one of them you just named it. His "occasional great drives". They were too "occasional" and that happened using basically the same car. One day he drives great, 4 others he drives awful. NObody denies his talent, as nobody can deny Trulli's, Glock's, Rubinho's or (an even more extreme case) Button's. But they all seem to have some kind of inconsistency that has more to do with mentality than good/bad cars or setups.

Alonso has had a dog of a car for a long time, now (let's put aside the whole crashgate saga for simplicity's sake) but the guy, no matter how much he whines and curses, keeps pushing. Ditto for Lewis (something I learned this year and is a welcome perk for him to have). Massa is another guy like that. It was compared to that "spirit" (Sorry, I wish I could be more clear) that he seems lacking.

[quote name='Autumnpuma' date='09 September 2009 - 05:41 PM'

You're not putting much thought into this. Your statement sounds great but it's far too simple. Understeer and oversteer have always been, and will always be, part of what a driver has to deal with. Each driver has his own driving style and that style's effectiveness (and subsequent lap times) is determined by understeer and oversteer. Not all drivers can change their styles to completely compensate. Fish had a unique situation at Renault to deal with in this regard.

As a basic, general rule a driver with a classic style of normal to wide entry and early, smooth power-on-exit will tend to want a pointy car. These drivers hate exit-oversteer. If those classic drivers encounter understeer on entry, they have only one way of dealing with it, and that's to go slower on entry (to allow more grip at the front) which will kill lap-times. The only other alternative is to induce oversteer on entry, but that also induces snap oversteer on exit...as I've said, not something a classic driver likes. Most drivers, including Fish, fall into this category. The other category of driver includes those that can deal with snap oversteer on exit. These drivers are more effective at dealing with an understeery car. Alonso famously wanted a very understeery car because his natural style is to brake a bit late and violently turn-in. Combine that with the rear-heavy disposition of that Renault and you can see why Fish had a devil of a time dealing with that sort of car.

EDIT: I removed the arrogance. I'm too tired to play that tune....

Hehehe yeah, we love those posts of yours you Californian b#####d! Anyways, I see your point, but...do you think the fact that the car was not well suited to his style can explain the abysmal differences he had when compared to Alonso? Or the fact that he didn't shine much when teamed up with Kovalainenenen, or Wurz, or Button or even Sutil (the F1 ladybug)?

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Ahh...meaningful posts! We get so few of these lately! Ok, Mike, as you know, I am hardly qualified to give you a satisfying reply, but I will try to give you further details on my comments about Fisi (which should have been taken only half seriously, anyways)

Fisi's Shortcomings: one of them you just named it. His "occasional great drives". They were too "occasional" and that happened using basically the same car. One day he drives great, 4 others he drives awful. NObody denies his talent, as nobody can deny Trulli's, Glock's, Rubinho's or (an even more extreme case) Button's. But they all seem to have some kind of inconsistency that has more to do with mentality than good/bad cars or setups.

Alonso has had a dog of a car for a long time, now (let's put aside the whole crashgate saga for simplicity's sake) but the guy, no matter how much he whines and curses, keeps pushing. Ditto for Lewis (something I learned this year and is a welcome perk for him to have). Massa is another guy like that. It was compared to that "spirit" (Sorry, I wish I could be more clear) that he seems lacking.

Sadly, his showing in Monza seems to prove you correct...to some extent. C'mon Fish! Haul yer arse up there! My credibility is at stake!!!!!

Hehehe yeah, we love those posts of yours you Californian b#####d! Anyways, I see your point, but...do you think the fact that the car was not well suited to his style can explain the abysmal differences he had when compared to Alonso? Or the fact that he didn't shine much when teamed up with Kovalainenenen, or Wurz, or Button or even Sutil (the F1 ladybug)?

I love that you quoted me speaking as you. Brilliant! Anyway, I do think my understeer explanation has a lot to do with why he sucked at Renault. As to how he did against all his competition, before Renault, he destroyed all his teammates.

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I love that you quoted me speaking as you. Brilliant!

:lol: I didn't notice that! Guess that happens when you are at work and have to switch windows constantly. Sometimes you press the wrong keys and...

Anyways, don't think it was intended as some sort of cheating. It was more like what the French call "L'esprit du Piquet" :whistling:

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Anyways, don't think it was intended as some sort of cheating. It was more like what the French call "L'esprit du Piquet" :whistling:

Hm. L'esprit du Piquet has always meant 'arrogant whinging' but perhaps I have the wrong French Dictionary. I checked that Dictionary and it has this for 'cheating': 'Gestionnaire d'

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Hm. L'esprit du Piquet has always meant 'arrogant whinging' but perhaps I have the wrong French Dictionary. I checked that Dictionary and it has this for 'cheating': 'Gestionnaire d'

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I think the issue is Ferrari. WTF are they thinking? Gene should've gotten the drive from the get-go. We are talking about the latest winner of LeMans, ffs. It's absurdity upon absurdity from Ferrari. Another dive for F1, not because of Fisi, but because it shows how fcked up is yet another F1 team.

Missed this bit! Oh & you pretty much stole my thoughts, which is a complement :thbup: !

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