AleHop 0 Report post Posted February 7, 2010 Maybe someday people will stop spewing bullsh1t and finally admit that, yes, Massa is a good driver. Yes, Massa is a good driver. Kimi is a great driver. The Dream Team was Raikkonen/Alonso. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schumikonen 2 Report post Posted February 7, 2010 Fact is though, Kimi was payed a tonne more than Felipe. Did he win a tonne more? No.... So? At least Massa's been consistently brilliant, whereas Raikkonen had one good year and then lost interest. Maybe someday people will stop spewing bullsh1t and finally admit that, yes, Massa is a good driver. Massa is not a good driver, everyone who drives a F1 car is a good driver and Massa is a lot better than that, when almost everybody was trashing Massa I was one of those few who still believed in him and I still believe he is a great driver and I believe he is going to defeat Alonso. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted February 7, 2010 Massa is not a good driver, everyone who drives a F1 car is a good driver and Massa is a lot better than that, when almost everybody was trashing Massa I was one of those few who still believed in him and I still believe he is a great driver and I believe he is going to defeat Alonso. He not only has to defeat Alonso, he has to prove he can win a WDC which he nearly did in 2008 but he needs the real WC's glory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHS 1 Report post Posted February 7, 2010 Yes, Massa is a good driver. Kimi is a great driver. The Dream Team was Raikkonen/Alonso. So, where, exactly, did he prove that in his time against Massa? Likewise, where/when did Kubica prove himself to be the totally amazine superstar he's bee made out to be against the likes of Heidfeld? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted February 7, 2010 So, where, exactly, did he prove that in his time against Massa? Likewise, where/when did Kubica prove himself to be the totally amazine superstar he's bee made out to be against the likes of Heidfeld? Ok, no problem. Heidfeld&Massa in your team. Kubica&Raikkonen in mine. Great stuff!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHS 1 Report post Posted February 7, 2010 Sure, have fun with a moaning drama queen and a lazy guy. Have fun paying them their huge wages for not much payback too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaster 7 Report post Posted February 7, 2010 Massa isn't a good driver, or at least he wasn't for a very long time when he was at Ferrari (he might be now). Massa has always been a fast driver, with very little race-craft to speak of. Sure, he's developed a lot and that's fantastic, but F1 isn't a place to learn how to drive, were it not for Todt he'd be nowhere. The thing is, in an F1 series where overtaking is so rare, it doesn't matter whether you have a 'good' driver (fast, and can race) or just a 'fast' driver. Needless to say, Massa is the perfect driver for this era, and Kimi was probably the perfect driver for the previous era's, e.g. most of all 70's/80's F1. That's one theory, anyway... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schumikonen 2 Report post Posted February 7, 2010 Massa isn't a good driver, or at least he wasn't for a very long time when he was at Ferrari (he might be now). Massa has always been a fast driver, with very little race-craft to speak of. Sure, he's developed a lot and that's fantastic, but F1 isn't a place to learn how to drive, were it not for Todt he'd be nowhere. The thing is, in an F1 series where overtaking is so rare, it doesn't matter whether you have a 'good' driver (fast, and can race) or just a 'fast' driver. Needless to say, Massa is the perfect driver for this era, and Kimi was probably the perfect driver for the previous era's, e.g. most of all 70's/80's F1. That's one theory, anyway... What are you finally saying? Massa is or isn't a good drive? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted February 7, 2010 What are you finally saying? Massa is or isn't a good drive? I'll explain what George meant. Massa was rubbish when he was in Sauber. He went to Ferrari only because Todt's son was his manager. He improved there but F1, neither Ferrari, isn't the place for learning. Now he might be good because there's not much fight on track when you are at the front driving your red car. In the 70's-80's it would have been quite different. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHS 1 Report post Posted February 7, 2010 I'll explain what George meant. Massa was rubbish when he was in Sauber. He went to Ferrari only because Todt's son was his manager. He improved there but F1, neither Ferrari, isn't the place for learning. Now he might be good because there's not much fight on track when you are at the front driving your red car. In the 70's-80's it would have been quite different. Thing is, those red cars WEREN'T at the front of the grid last year. Yet for the first half of the year before the Hungary situation, Massa outscored and outperformed Kimi. Fact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schumikonen 2 Report post Posted February 7, 2010 I'll explain what George meant. Massa was rubbish when he was in Sauber. He went to Ferrari only because Todt's son was his manager. He improved there but F1, neither Ferrari, isn't the place for learning. Now he might be good because there's not much fight on track when you are at the front driving your red car. In the 70's-80's it would have been quite different. Maybe it is the way you say but in his post he started it by saying "Massa isn't a good driver" and later in the same post he said "He might be now" and now is that we are taking about Massa being a good driver so eather he thing he might be now a good (in wich case he is admiting that he is a good driver but he is not sure or that he isn't a good driver at all, and that is the reason of my question. But changing subject, I notice that this off season most people are posting here than in the past when there as an exodus until the first race, good job people Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaster 7 Report post Posted February 8, 2010 No Schumi, I started out by making a statement "Massa isn't a good driver", which taken alone would be an absolute, but it wasn't alone, I then said (later in the same sentence) "or at least he wasn't ... (he might be now)". It means Massa wasn't a good driver for a long while at Ferrari, but he might be now (obviously, we are still talking about in terms of race-craft, nobody doubts Massa's speed). What you did, Schumi, was separate the start and end of the same sentence, and then take the two as being unrelated and therefore contradictory, when in fact the second part is related to the first. If we were in some kind of argument, it would be a naughty trick. In this case though, I think you just genuinely misunderstood (and probably this post doesn't help). So I'll let you live. As for the rest of the post; Alehop has it right. Apart from the part about Ferrari being at the front, which is partly true as the Ferrari was at the front sometimes, but it's also true that there's probably less passing everywhere on the grid. Anyway, the point of the post wasn't about Massa (who I think is a fast, determined driver who has gotten better in every area), it was about the way F1 changed and how it seems race-craft is increasingly unimportant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
