Fia Reveal 2005 Rules

[Senna 0]

from itv-f1.com:

FIA REVEAL 2005 RULES

Last Updated: Friday, 22, October, 2004, 18:23

The FIA have finally revealed the technical regulations they will impose on F1 teams next season.

The World Motor Sport Council had offered F1 outfits three different packages of reforms

[Sato 0]

Well maybe 2005 will be my last season following F1.

They mose well rename the series

Champ Cars

Worst rule changes ever.

[webber 0]

yea but there adding a hole new aspect for the desingers of the cars.

[Sato 0]

Going to V8's really p**ses me off.....

[nojvnof1 0]

not that fussed about the aero bit. but as Sato says, F1 is gonna be like Champ Car soon. If it were up to me, bring bavk the V6 turbos with 1000bhp Wouldn't be safe, but thats what I d like to see, but for safety, Ill be happy if they keep things as they are. The big problem is the tyre warm and it seems everyone except Ferrari is willing to fix things up. The teams, bar FIAerrari have signed an agreement to limit testing to 10 days during the season, testing unlimited in off season and 4 hours via 2 2 hour sessions on Friday of GP weekends, this will also see the end of the tyre war with there being only one trye manufacturer. Another thing, which is a real sting in the tail, is that the team will agree to run 19 races next year, the extra ones being UK and France, if their rules are brought in. Bring these and the aero rules in, scrap the engine rubbish and problem solved. Even Sauber signed the deal, which means in effect, the fate of F1 rests on what Ferrari does.

[nichosnz 0]

Going to V8's  really p**ses me off.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please elaborate, as V8's are a part of F1 history, winning championships from 1956-1994 more than any other layout of engine.

V8 - 19 DWC, 15 CWC

V10 - 14D, 15C ---- the last 8 of each of these in the only ever layout monolopy.

V6 Turbo - 5D, 7C

Straight 4 - 4D, 3C

Boxer 12 - 3D, 4C

V6 - 3D, 2C

Straight 6 - 3.5D

V12 - 1D, 1C

Straight 8 - 1.5D

Straight 4 Turbo - 1D

[Sato 0]

but V8's are a older technology to me....F1 was always the best drivers with the best technology and tracks. Now we've had drivers like Yoong, but that was fine with me its needed. But going backwards in terms of engines/technology just doesn't seem right at all. Sure make them alil slower for safety etc, but they to me, have taken it too far.

[nichosnz 0]

but V8's are a older technology to me....F1 was always the best drivers with the best technology and tracks. Now we've had drivers like Yoong, but that was fine with me its needed. But going backwards in terms of engines/technology just doesn't seem right at all. Sure make them alil slower for safety etc, but they to me, have taken it too far.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Better? - What is to say 3 litre V10 are the best technology, if the capacity and layout was completely open, I bet not all teams would have 3l V10's.

Older? - So you wouldn't like a return to turbos either as turbos are older than V10's. How about superchargers? Oooh no can have those they have been around for over 80 years. If fact maybe we shouldn't even use internal combustion engines as they have been around for about 120 years. And wheels? hmmm thousands of years, better scrap those too.

So neither your best nor older arguements cut it for me.c gbbbbbbb (A little message from my daughter)

As for the best drivers arguement, maybe if cost are cut enough we can reduce the number of Yoong's, Takagi's, Mazzacane's. Unfortunately we will never be rid of them.

[Sato 0]

Better? - What is to say 3 litre V10 are the best technology, if the capacity and layout was completely open, I bet not all teams would have 3l V10's.

Older? - So you wouldn't like a return to turbos either as turbos are older than V10's.  How about superchargers? Oooh no can have those they have been around for over 80 years.  If fact maybe we shouldn't even use internal combustion engines as they have been around for about 120 years.  And wheels? hmmm thousands of years, better scrap those too.

So neither your best nor older arguements cut it for me.c gbbbbbbb (A little message from my daughter)

As for the best drivers arguement, maybe if cost are cut enough we can reduce the number of Yoong's, Takagi's, Mazzacane's.  Unfortunately we will never be rid of them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But im saying there is better technology that F1 can use safely.

[Taku 0]

Better? - What is to say 3 litre V10 are the best technology, if the capacity and layout was completely open, I bet not all teams would have 3l V10's.

Older? - So you wouldn't like a return to turbos either as turbos are older than V10's.  How about superchargers? Oooh no can have those they have been around for over 80 years.  If fact maybe we shouldn't even use internal combustion engines as they have been around for about 120 years.  And wheels? hmmm thousands of years, better scrap those too.

So neither your best nor older arguements cut it for me.c gbbbbbbb (A little message from my daughter)

As for the best drivers arguement, maybe if cost are cut enough we can reduce the number of Yoong's, Takagi's, Mazzacane's.  Unfortunately we will never be rid of them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i agree with sato. i don't like the idea of taking a step backwards in the engine department. yes there have been many engine formats in the past, but if we hypothetically moved back to turbo and superchargers today the power outputs would definitely go out of control. so let us not forget the point is reducing performance, given the majority desire for f1 to remain 'cutting-edge'. therein lies the dillema. how to reduce performance without taking a step back?

extending the life of the current engines seems to me to be the best way of doing it, which would cost the least from the engine-builders point of view (it is in essence a continued development of the current engine, rather than starting over again), and maintain the image of f1 as a high-perfomance category that races engines that aren't seen to be generally available. what the teams have proposed is potentially, and surprisingly, effective to what needs to be done. ie reduce costs and the relative gaps in performance amongst teams.

i can see the potential for development in a 2.5l v8 too, as f1 enginers will extract performance out of steam engines if the regulations say so, but remember it is only from 2006, and concorde expires in 2007. the engine builders hardly want to develop a v8 for 2 years before they move to their own (gpwc?) format in 2008.

[rodders47 2]

well I watched the Champ Cars race at Surfers Paradise last w/end. APART from some of the stupid YANK rules, like "rolling start" and in past years "the Track Drier machine" I have to say when the Camera was watching the drivers movements it was good to see them "CHANGE GEARS MANUALLY" even if using a Sequential gear box and to see the car "Step Sideways" with an over exhuberant use of the Loud Pedal, sort of returned Motor Racing back to how it used to be. No Bloody traction control, No High cost/High faluting Carbon discs, just plain old Cast Iron stuff and the REAL Talent was shown to be the driver at the end of the day , not some bloody computer controlled missile that MAYBE just MAYBE some one with big enough BALLS could put up a reasonable time in this over sophisticad car called F1

Oh and if my memory serves me correct they had over 140,000 people there for Sunday !!!!!!

Gidday Nichos good to see you back mate

[webber 0]

yea Sato's right V10 are all ways going to be better than V8 and 2.4L V8 thats just crap. man my Toyota camry is a 3.0L V6 and if a road car has a engine the same size (or bigger) than a F1 car then whats the point of having the sport in the first place. but i must say i like the changers to the tyers and the aero i cant wait to see the cars go around on low downforce all the time.

[AutoRacer5 0]

well I watched the Champ Cars race at Surfers Paradise last w/end.

[Sato 0]

Roling starts are useless unless its an oval track. Driers often ruin what could be a more interesting race also.

[nichosnz 0]

yea Sato's right V10 are all ways going to be better than V8 and 2.4L V8 thats just crap. man my Toyota camry is a 3.0L V6 and if a road car has a engine the same size (or bigger) than a F1 car then whats the point of having the sport in the first place. but i must say i like the changers to the tyers and the aero i cant wait to see the cars go around on low downforce all the time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No offence to your car, but a road car 3L V6 cannot even compare to even a 600cc V2 designed by F1 engine experts. And if V10's are the only option why were Ferrari, Honda, Toyota and BMW researching V12's, until the FIA locked in the V10 rule. You guys seem a bit closed minded. And BTW if you know anything about engings you will know abot tourque...

Ok if you want to be as fickle as 'my ones bigger than that', then I can be fickle too. Get rid of V10's they sound horrible (comparitively speaking). V12's sound almost musical, V8's sound throaty, and in comparison V10 sound blaaagh.

[nichosnz 0]

Gidday Nichos  good to see you back mate

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Rod, good to 'see' you again too.

[Taku 0]

i never said there'd be anything wrong with upping it to v12. that would be awesome. i'd just rather we didn't take a step back.

[ecapdeville 0]

Hello!

Well, maybe we can see the use of a 8 cylinder engine as a step back, but every year although the rules changes to make the F1 slower, they are even faster!.

I think that the use of a new and revolutionary 8 cil engine will bring savings and maybe a sort of equalization between teams.

Dont think that they will use the same old V8, the only thing that will be the same will be the number of cylinders.

Thats the magic of F1, it might look like a step back...but we will notice it just at the time tables.

[nichosnz 0]

i never said there'd be anything wrong with upping it to v12.  that would be awesome.    i'd just rather we didn't take a step back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know how to make you see that a step down is not the same as a step back.

I read an article a few years back in Autosport, that claimed V12's were best for power V8 were best for torque, and that V10's were an (almost reluctant) compromise. From that I take that in an open battlefield V10's are (arguably) better, but in a closed one ALL V8's or ALL V12's are better than ALL V10's.

In all this defence of V8's I have not in fact put across my view. In the interests of safety I will ignore supers and turbos. I prefer a trully open battlefield in practice as well as legislation. Although these are meant to be cost cutting so I say look into V12 V10 V8 and yes even V6, choose very carefully and then STICK WITH IT. Change is not cheap, especially when talking about engines.

[rodders47 2]

well it's all about "Development"

Back in the 70's when I was racing if you even slightly managed to get 100 bhp from a 1 litre engine then that thing was soooooo hot it wouldn't idle below 3000 rpm and was litterally totally undriveable below 6000 rpm. and bloody Unreliable.

TODAY the 250 cc Racing Bike motors put out OVER 100 bhp

So at the moment we have a 3 litre V10 producing close to 1000 bhp, so the rule want to change for a V8 of 2.4 litre ! big deal. a rough calculation in my head says that on current performance ratings the V8 will produce about 720 bhp WITHOUT any modifications to the geometary already being used. AND the V8 will be Smaller / Lighter etc etc . Given a year and my bet is the V8 will be nearer the 900 bhp.

I reckon if I am around in another 20 yrs they will get 1000 bhp from a 1 litre engine !!

Only TIME and the need for development will tell

[Shadow 0]

Since this is my first post on the topic, did any one think about slick tyres rather than haggle about V8 or V10 engines. I personally don't mind either as long as F1 remains at the pinnacle of motorsports.

[nojvnof1 0]

I heard slicks won't be brought in because of safety and the increase in speed they will bring. The solution = control tyre. Once we get only one trye supplier, slicks will have a chance of returning.

[Shadow 0]

Hmmmmmm Kumho, the korean tyre company anyone????

[nichosnz 0]

I heard slicks won't be brought in because of safety and the increase in speed they will bring. The solution = control tyre. Once we get only one trye supplier, slicks will have a chance of returning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a step closer now with Sauber signing up with Michelin, leaving only Ferrari, Jordan and Minardi on Bridgestone.

[nojvnof1 0]

yep tha's right, but I have a feeling Toyota might move from Michelin to BStone.