Italian Gp: Best/worst Of Race

[bajo39 0]

BEST:

1. Antonio Pizzonia - On very short notice, the Brazilian stepped up and put in a fantastic effort bringing the car home in 7th (versus 14th for Webber) and scoring two points for Williams.

2. Christian Klien - A good final race from the Austrian before handing over to Liuzzi for the remainder of the season.

3. Kimi Raikkonen - What an effort! When Raikkonen stayed out until lap 25 it became clear that his qualifying lap was nothing short of amazing. Given his lowly starting position, technical difficulties and his being held up by slower cars throughout the race (costing him at least 20 seconds in total), it was extraordinary that he managed to bring the car home in 4th. With the bad luck he suffered his small spin late int he race was more than forgiveable - surely he would not have done this had he been in the lead. He set the fastest lap of the race on lap 51 to confirm that he had the winning pace this weekend. No doubt about it, Kimi would have won if he had been able to hold onto the position he earnt in qualifying.

Note: Even though Montoya won the race, he did it rather unimpressive fashion. Starting on Saturday, he was outqualified by his teammate (by a significant margin) on a much lighter fuel load as I predicted (in the race it became clear the advantage was 5 laps worth or 20% less fuel).

The McLaren strategy, as I predicted, was to get Montoya on pole ahead of Alonso, and for Montoya to use his track position to hold up the Spaniard while Kimi caught up. Remember, McLaren knew their cars were much faster than the Renault's and would not have been worried about Montoya possibly losing his position to Alonso while attempting to hold him up in the first stint. Instead of the Columbian following the gameplan, he failed to capture pole despite the huge weight advantage and then shot off into the distance with Alonso in tow. Brainless!

WORST:

18. Christian Albers - Poor qualifying performance, poor race perfromance (even though he did better than Karthikeyan). To add insult to injury, the Dutch was penalised for ignoring blue flags at a time when this issue is receiving more coverage than it has since the fallout of the Montoya-Verstaappen incident.

19. Karthikeyan continued his poor form at this GP beginning on Saturday where he was outqualified by a Minardi to the tune of half a second. As soon as the race began he was involved in a collision confirming the sensibility of the teams decision to place its newest equipment with Montiero. He went on to finish dead last and set a slower fastest lap than the lead Minardi.

20. Mark Webber - he should have been able to beat his inexperienced and underprepared teammate by a wide margin. Instead, he finished 7 places behind him and set a slower fastest lap. Pathetic.

codesearch: bestworstitaly

[cavallino 2]

you think Albers is not to blame for the Karthikeyan incident, and you blame him for a race plaued with mechanical problems and having to run an old used set of tyres?

[bajo39 0]

you think Albers is not to blame for the Karthikeyan incident, and you blame him for a race plaued with mechanical problems and having to run an old used set of tyres?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Re-read my comments.

I don't blame Karthikeyan for the incident, I'm not sure who was at fault because the coverage was limited to an overhead shot from a helicopter. Karthikeyan destroyed his tyres in practice and that is why he had to use an old set - I'm hardly going to adjust in his favour for this. Anyway both Minardis had better pace than Karthikeyan and would have finished ahead of him in an incident free race and, as I must always remind you, that is disappointing to say the least.

[cavallino 2]

The old jordan is slower than the minardis we've seen that race after race, just like the old minardi was slower early in the season.

[bajo39 0]

The old jordan is slower than the minardis we've seen that race after race, just like the old minardi was slower early in the season.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is it the car or the drivers? The resumes of the Minardi pairing suggest they are much better drivers than the Jordan pairing hence I am inclined to believe that it is the drivers that account for the difference (and the rest of the forum agrees with me). You are Indian and one of the Jordan drivers is Indian and that is the only reason you think the Jordan is slower than the Minardi.

[cavallino 2]

so when the jordan's are faster its the car, and when its the other way around its the driver?

There we go again about the rest of the forum..

[bajo39 0]

so when the jordan's are faster its the car, and when its the other way around its the driver?

There we go again about the rest of the forum..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is not a case of heads I win, tails you lose at all. The Minardi drivers are much better drivers, they are much faster and the whole forum has been telling you this for weeks. It is absolutely clear to everyone. The Jordan cars (the old and new alike) are better than the Minardi cars. It's that simple and you can ask any non-Indian forum member and they will tell you the same...

[pumpdoc 2]

It is not a case of heads I win, tails you lose at all.

[bajo39 0]

He won the race that's all that matters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nonsense, what matters is the CC and the WDC and he didn't make the contribution he should have in either. What's more is that his race performance was unimpressive and he was outperformed all weekend by his teammate, including in the race. However, I'm not going ot have this discussion in a mistitled thread. I'll bring it to the best/worst of thread.

[pumpdoc 2]

BEST:

1. Antonio Pizzonia - On very short notice, the Brazilian stepped up and put in a fantastic effort bringing the car home in 7th (versus 14th for Webber) and scoring two points for Williams.

2. Christian Klien - A good final race from the Austrian before handing over to Liuzzi for the remainder of the season. 

3. Kimi Raikkonen - What an effort!  When Raikkonen stayed out until lap 25 it became clear that his qualifying lap was nothing short of amazing.  Given his lowly starting position, technical difficulties and his being held up by slower cars throughout the race (costing him at least 20 seconds in total), it was extraordinary that he managed to bring the car home in 4th.  With the bad luck he suffered his small spin late int he race was more than forgiveable - surely he would not have done this had he been in the lead.  He set the fastest lap of the race on lap 51 to confirm that he had the winning pace this weekend. No doubt about it, Kimi would have won if he had been able to hold onto the position he earnt in qualifying.

Note: Even though Montoya won the race, he did it rather unimpressive fashion.  Starting on Saturday, he was outqualified by his teammate (by a significant margin) on a much lighter fuel load as I predicted (in the race it became clear the advantage was 5 laps worth or 20% less fuel).

The McLaren strategy, as I predicted, was to get Montoya on pole ahead of Alonso, and for Montoya to use his track position to hold up the Spaniard while Kimi caught up.  Remember, McLaren knew their cars were much faster than the Renault's and would not have been worried about Montoya possibly losing his position to Alonso while attempting to hold him up in the first stint.  Instead of the Columbian following the gameplan, he failed to capture pole despite the huge weight advantage and then shot off into the distance with Alonso in tow.  Brainless! 

WORST:

18. Christian Albers - Poor qualifying performance, poor race perfromance (even though he did better than Karthikeyan). To add insult to injury, the Dutch was penalised for ignoring blue flags at a time when this issue is receiving more coverage than it has since the fallout of the Montoya-Verstaappen incident.

19. Karthikeyan continued his poor form at this GP beginning on Saturday where he was outqualified by a Minardi to the tune of half a second.  As soon as the race began he was involved in a collision confirming the sensibility of the teams decision to place its newest equipment with Montiero. He went on to finish dead last and set a slower fastest lap than the lead Minardi.

20. Mark Webber - he should have been able to beat his inexperienced and underprepared teammate by a wide margin.  Instead, he finished 7 places behind him and set a slower fastest lap.  Pathetic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

spot on!

But you should give props to Sato for not botching anybodys or his own race, as the team did 'nuff to him with the fuel rig problem

[bajo39 0]

spot on!

But you should give props to Sato for not botching anybodys or his own race, as the team did 'nuff to him with the fuel rig problem

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He was still slower than Jenson all weekend....

BTW is Liz Halladay hot?

[pumpdoc 2]

BTW is Liz Halladay hot?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, and she is from my home area/county and i've watched her race many a time when she would do local SCCA races in a Porsche or a Bimmer.

[bajo39 0]

Yes, and she is from my home area/county and i've watched her race many a time when she would do local SCCA races in a Porsche or a Bimmer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Next question: is she any good (at driving)?

I couldn't find any nudes but here are some racing pics:

I like the nose ring and the fact that she drives stick, love that, but she's a bit old for me

[Null 0]

2005: FIA GT Championship (Lister)

American LeMans Series, LMP2 (Intersport-Lola)

2004: LeMans Endurance Series, GT-36. (Autorlando-Porsche, one race)

American LeMans Series, GT (PK-Porsche, 2 races)

FIA GT Championship

[funkejay 0]

The old jordan is slower than the minardis we've seen that race after race, just like the old minardi was slower early in the season.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not my fight cavallino, but I thought I'd toss you a bone.

The old Jordan is now approximately three years old, and is a notoriously difficult car to drive, but it is not really slower than Minardi's new chassis. They are pretty close to being on par for outright speed, but your strongest argument is that it requires much greater skill to get a comparable time out of the Jordan without tossing it off the track. The new Minardi by comparison seems a properly sorted F1 car, albeit one that would benefit from some desperately needed development.

But with the new Jordan/Midland chassis, there won't be any more excuses. It looked a right nice ride all weekend at Monza.

[Monty 0]

BEST:

The McLaren strategy, as I predicted, was to get Montoya on pole ahead of Alonso, and for Montoya to use his track position to hold up the Spaniard while Kimi caught up.  Remember, McLaren knew their cars were much faster than the Renault's and would not have been worried about Montoya possibly losing his position to Alonso while attempting to hold him up in the first stint.  Instead of the Columbian following the gameplan, he failed to capture pole despite the huge weight advantage and then shot off into the distance with Alonso in tow.  Brainless! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I knew you will come up with your usual drivel Bajo. And this time I must say that you have surpised the entire forum with your blabber. The game plan of Mclaren is to get JPM ahead of Alonso. Period. Had JPM captured the pole, and Kimi second, the grid lineup would not have changed. Can't you see that? Did JPM do that? ofcourse he did. What the hell are you talking about you moron?

Why don't you blame your dear JV for screwing up Kimi's race? It was Kimi's was fault for letting JV to get past him at the first place, and if he can't pass JV then tough Sh#t don't blame JPM. Kimi had a shot at the podium and he blew it with his spin, I see that you have written it was a "small spin". He lost his place to Trulli and had to fight back to regain that spot. Had he not spun, then he could have passed Fisi. How come when Kimi makes a mistake you are so forgiving, and don't apply the same for other drivers. It only shows that you lack objectivity.

Once again bajo (after every race) you have come up with the most biased analysis reeking with gibberish.

[funkejay 0]

In fairness Monty, JV was a damn sight quicker off the line than KR because of the massive difference in the amount of fuel they were carrying, and once ahead of him, KR had a difficult time getting past. Not surprising though, as the '97 WDC is one of the toughest in the business to pass (just ask FA).

You are right of course that Kimi could have caught Fisi had he not spun. That was his error, and is no different in my opinion than JPM going off at the end of the Turkish GP. Both cost KR points that he needed to catch FA.

JPM didn't really do much to help Kimi this weekend, but as he said, there wasn't much he could do. Overall, I thought JPM ran a good race to win for the second time this season (particularly when you consider the delaminating right rear he developed four laps from the finish), and KR put in a blinding effort to take (almost) everything he could from the weekend.

[bajo39 0]

The game plan of Mclaren is to get JPM ahead of Alonso. Period. Had JPM captured the pole, and Kimi second, the grid lineup would not have changed. Can't you see that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The gameplan was surely the one that would yield them the largest comparative benefit from this race in the WDC and CC. I described that gameplan perfectly before the race and what we saw in the race, in terms of fuel loads, proved my predicitons correct and substantiated my prediction in regards to strategy.

Once again, that strategy was to get Montoya on pole ahead of Alonso which he did do (but failed to actually capture pole from Kimi despite a huge weight advantage) with his superior machinery (which on pace was nearly a full second faster than the Renault all things being equal). From there Montoya - who by virtue of his disgracefully poor season, has no relevance in the WDC (and has made a fraction of the contribution of his teammate to the CC) - was to hold up Alonso while Kimi caught up. Remember the risk of getting passed by Alonso in the first stint at Monza was minimal (because it is a very difficult track to pass on) and of little consequence anyway because Montoya could repass with his superior pace and in the pit-stop sequences.

Montoya failed to do this either because he was unawares, and given his proven lack of intelligence, this would not surprise me or was too stubborn to be a team player. Either is possible but both are disappointing.

Why don't you blame your dear JV for screwing up Kimi's race? It was Kimi's was fault for letting JV to get past him at the first place, and if he can't pass JV then tough Sh#t don't blame JPM. Kimi had a shot at the podium and he blew it with his spin, I see that you have written it was a "small spin". He lost his place to Trulli and had to fight back to regain that spot. Had he not spun, then he could have passed Fisi. How come when Kimi makes a mistake you are so forgiving, and don't apply the same for other drivers. It only shows that you lack objectivity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

JV did very well to hold up Kimi as the commentators mentioned. Of course JV has fantastic defensive abilities so we expected nothing less.

Once again bajo (after every race) you have come up with the most biased analysis reeking with gibberish.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's not get personal Monty

[Jenson_Rules 0]

[quote name='bajo39' date='Sep 4 2005, 07:00 PM'][b]BEST:[/b]

1. Antonio Pizzonia - On very short notice, the Brazilian stepped up and put in a fantastic effort bringing the car home in 7th (versus 14th for Webber) and scoring two points for Williams.

2. Christian Klien - A good final race from the Austrian before handing over to Liuzzi for the remainder of the season. 

3. Kimi Raikkonen - What an effort!  When Raikkonen stayed out until lap 25 it became clear that his qualifying lap was nothing short of amazing.  Given his lowly starting position, technical difficulties and his being held up by slower cars throughout the race (costing him at least 20 seconds in total), it was extraordinary that he managed to bring the car home in 4th.  With the bad luck he suffered his small spin late int he race was more than forgiveable - surely he would not have done this had he been in the lead.  He set the fastest lap of the race on lap 51 to confirm that he had the winning pace this weekend. No doubt about it, Kimi would have won if he had been able to hold onto the position he earnt in qualifying.

Note: Even though Montoya won the race, he did it rather unimpressive fashion.  Starting on Saturday, he was outqualified by his teammate (by a significant margin) on a much lighter fuel load as I predicted (in the race it became clear the advantage was 5 laps worth or 20% less fuel).

The McLaren strategy, as I predicted, was to get Montoya on pole ahead of Alonso, and for Montoya to use his track position to hold up the Spaniard while Kimi caught up.  Remember, McLaren knew their cars were much faster than the Renault's and would not have been worried about Montoya possibly losing his position to Alonso while attempting to hold him up in the first stint.  Instead of the Columbian following the gameplan, he failed to capture pole despite the huge weight advantage and then shot off into the distance with Alonso in tow.  Brainless! 


[b]WORST:[/b]

18. Christian Albers - Poor qualifying performance, poor race perfromance (even though he did better than Karthikeyan). To add insult to injury, the Dutch was penalised for ignoring blue flags at a time when this issue is receiving more coverage than it has since the fallout of the Montoya-Verstaappen incident.

19. Karthikeyan continued his poor form at this GP beginning on Saturday where he was outqualified by a Minardi to the tune of half a second.  As soon as the race began he was involved in a collision confirming the sensibility of the teams decision to place its newest equipment with Montiero. He went on to finish dead last and set a slower fastest lap than the lead Minardi.

20. Mark Webber - he should have been able to beat his inexperienced and underprepared teammate by a wide margin.  Instead, he finished 7 places behind him and set a slower fastest lap.  Pathetic.

codesearch: bestworstitaly
[right][post="66070"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

I agree other than klien shouldnt be in the top 3, and montoya should be number one! Despite my disliking of the columbian and my constant critisizing, it has to be said he did a great job today!

[bajo39 0]

I agree other than klien shouldnt be in the top 3, and montoya should be number one! Despite my disliking of the columbian and my constant critisizing, it has to be said he did a great job today!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Montoya put in a good performance but not a great one. He was outqualified by his teammate on much lighter fuel and was outpaced all day. His car was nearly a second per lap faster than the second and third place finishers so if he did anything but win it would have been a huge disappointment.

[Jenson_Rules 0]

indeed, but he managed his tyre at the end, when many would have simply made constant mistakes and not finished, his race effort was superb! Especially by his standards!

[bajo39 0]

indeed, but he managed his tyre at the end, when many would have simply made constant mistakes and not finished, his race effort was superb! Especially by his standards!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would agree with you if you said this: "indeed, but he managed his tyre at the end, when he normally would have simply made constant mistakes and not finished, his race effort was superb by his standards!

[Monty 0]

In fairness Monty, JV was a damn sight quicker off the line than KR because of the massive difference in the amount of fuel they were carrying, and once ahead of him, KR had a difficult time getting past. Not surprising though, as the '97 WDC is one of the toughest in the business to pass (just ask FA).

You are right of course that Kimi could have caught Fisi had he not spun. That was his error, and is no different in my opinion than JPM going off at the end of the Turkish GP. Both cost KR points that he needed to catch FA.

JPM didn't really do much to help Kimi this weekend, but as he said, there wasn't much he could do. Overall, I thought JPM ran a good race to win for the second time this season (particularly when you consider the delaminating right rear he developed four laps from the finish), and KR put in a blinding effort to take (almost) everything he could from the weekend.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not blaming JV for this at all Funkejay. He has every right to defend his position, but my comment was directed towards Bajo, as he seemed to be suggesting that Montoya should have held Alonso so that Kimi could catch up later. That can't be Montoya's fault if JV didn't let Kimi through, or if Kimi couldn't pass a driver who was on a inferior machinery. How can he blame Montoya for that and that was my point, and nothing against JV.

[Monty 0]

Once again, that strategy was to get Montoya on pole ahead of Alonso which he did do (but failed to actually capture pole from Kimi despite a huge weight advantage) with his superior machinery (which on pace was nearly a full second faster than the Renault all things being equal).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Irrelevant to the discussion, as the grid lineup would not have changed.

From there Montoya - who by virtue of his disgracefully poor season, has no relevance in the WDC (and has made a fraction of the contribution of his teammate to the CC) - was to hold up Alonso while Kimi caught up.  Remember the risk of getting passed by Alonso in the first stint at Monza was minimal (because it is a very difficult track to pass on) and of little consequence anyway because Montoya could repass with his superior pace and in the pit-stop sequences. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What do you mean that JPM's contribution has been a fraction. He has contributed 50 points to Kimi's 76 points with 2 less races. So your point makes no sense.

With regards to your second point, JPM's job was to hold Alonso, so that Kimi can climb up the order and pass him. Right. Now lets talk about Kimi's job, his was to quickly pass the mid order cars ( with inferior machinery) and catch up with Alonso. Given this scenario, tell me who dropped the ball. JPM not only managed to get a clean start and was ahead of the fast starting Renaults by the first corner. (Job well done, as expected of him) Kimi not only failed to pass any cars, (remember the Mclarens are the 2nd fastest off the line next to Renaults) but yeilded his position to a car that was clearly slower by about 2.5 seconds. Not only that he was unable to reclaim his lost position, but was loosing time. Whose fault was that?

JV did very well to hold up Kimi as the commentators mentioned. Of course JV has fantastic defensive abilities so we expected nothing less.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not blaming JV for this at all, and I do know that he has fantastic defensive abilites, if you want to blame someone other than Kimi for his race results look no further. Stop blaming JPM, he has not part to play, as Kimi screwed it up himself. He is the one who is chasing Alonso, not JPM, so the onus is on him to perform right from the start, and he failed to do that.

Let's not get personal Monty 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Apologise, and I take back what I said, if you feel that I personaly attacked you. ( BTW, you do get personal with your fellow forum members, Just thought I'll remind you)

[johndifo 0]

I think its important to note that Christian Albers so much praised skill is driving him against the yellow cars at all first corners in the races, in another race TM and today NK, if its skill blowing up the rear tire of his direct competitors in the first corner race after race, then I dont know...