Look Who's Talking Now!

[Shane2 0]

Yeah,because Kimi has flexible................underpants and vodka bottles.

Kimi's well within the rules, he's the stiffest driver in F1

2 genius comments there

The situation is identical to the mass damper ruling. But since Ferrari is on the receiving end, everyone will celebrate instead of complaining. Hypocrisy...

The difference is that Ferrari and cheating are pretty synonamous with each other. Renault's device was banned under a dubious ruling about movable Aero parts, when it could be argued that it didn't affect the car's aero balance at all. That, and the fact that nobody in the pit lane likes ferrari lol.

[pabloh20 1]

2 genius comments there

The difference is that Ferrari and cheating are pretty synonamous with each other. Renault's device was banned under a dubious ruling about movable Aero parts, when it could be argued that it didn't affect the car's aero balance at all. That, and the fact that nobody in the pit lane likes ferrari lol.

I would imagine all the teams are at it, Shane, McLaren, Renault, etc have all been caught doing something to contravene the rules.

How do you know that nobody in the pit lane likes Ferrari? Apparently it is McLaren who are deemed the 'sour pusses' because they never join in Red Bull's parties!!

[Shane2 0]

Thats just by red bull though

One comment singled it out for me:

Ron Dennis: when he was asked why he had requested Renault to release Alonso but then refused to release Raikkonen he said "we don't have the same relationship with Ferrari that we do with Renault"

And of course Monaco 06. Despite the fact it was Scuhmacher that pulled the parking stunt, a lot of people where also criticising Ferrari.

Last of all, the way they acted in the indianapolis fiasco (got greedy for the points, and where the only team to refuse the chicane), they got condemned for that.

Red Bull are obviously not going to complain because they use Ferrari's power, but apart from that There is pretty much a universal dislike.

McLaren I will admit have been on the edge some years, but Renault i know to generally try and adhere to the rules. The last time I remember a dispute about McLaren though was in 2003 over the illegal michelin tyres. Ferrari disputed them, and sure enough they where banned (I think the dimensions where slightly wrong but apparently it didn't have any effect on performance).

Michelin had to rush new tyres out to Malaysia and as a result all of the Michelin teams lost competitiveness

[pabloh20 1]

Thats just by red bull though

One comment singled it out for me:

Ron Dennis: when he was asked why he had requested Renault to release Alonso but then refused to release Raikkonen he said "we don't have the same relationship with Ferrari that we do with Renault"

And of course Monaco 06. Despite the fact it was Scuhmacher that pulled the parking stunt, a lot of people where also criticising Ferrari.

Last of all, the way they acted in the indianapolis fiasco (got greedy for the points, and where the only team to refuse the chicane), they got condemned for that.

Red Bull are obviously not going to complain because they use Ferrari's power, but apart from that There is pretty much a universal dislike.

McLaren I will admit have been on the edge some years, but Renault i know to generally try and adhere to the rules. The last time I remember a dispute about McLaren though was in 2003 over the illegal michelin tyres. Ferrari disputed them, and sure enough they where banned (I think the dimensions where slightly wrong but apparently it didn't have any effect on performance).

Michelin had to rush new tyres out to Malaysia and as a result all of the Michelin teams lost competitiveness

Yeah, but Red Bull are the fun team - they should know!!

Just because Ferrari got criticised for that particular incident, doesn't mean eveyone doesn't like them. I think it would be hard to make such a judgement from the outside. I actually have no idea if the teams like each other or not, or if Ferrari is hated more than anybody else.

It didn't matter if Ferrari refused the chicane or not, Charlie Whiting refused the chicane on safety grounds as I remember.

Renault have been caught out too. I don't think it makes a difference which team reports the contravention, I think that has been proved many times in the past.

[Shane2 0]

I never did see any Evidence that the TMD affected the car's aero. It wasn't an aero part, so how can it be banned under an Aero ruling

[pabloh20 1]

I never did see any Evidence that the TMD affected the car's aero. It wasn't an aero part, so how can it be banned under an Aero ruling

If you are referring to what I said, I wasn't talking about the TMD, rather more years gone by!

[Shane2 0]

What else did Renault do that broke the rules?

[cavallino 2]

What else did Renault do that broke the rules?

edit: tampered with the fuel rig, did not remove traction control etc etc.

[Shane2 0]

Thats strange because I haven't seen any of that stuff. When renault came back into F1 in 2002 TC was illegal and I have never seen anything about fuel rig tampering, and last time they where in F1 TC hadn't been invented

I was generally referring to REAL examples, not examples from your silly little world of imagination

[cavallino 2]

Renault Benetton, same team different names.

[Autumnpuma 0]

The situation is identical to the mass damper ruling. But since Ferrari is on the receiving end, everyone will celebrate instead of complaining. Hypocrisy...

Bullsh!t. I want TMDs, flexible wings and moving untertrays. I want active-ride. I want any interesting innovation on the cars, regardless of team. If the part is overly dangerous, then kill it, but otherwise all innovation should be fair game.

[Player(1) 0]

Renault Benetton, same team different names.

you mean Benetton Renault and you'll find Ferrari is more like Benetton since Schumacher took the majority of key people with him.

Actually makes sense really

[Autumnpuma 0]

you mean Benetton Renault and you'll find Ferrari is more like Benetton since Schumacher took the majority of key people with him.

Actually makes sense really

This really is a good point...

[pabloh20 1]

you mean Benetton Renault and you'll find Ferrari is more like Benetton since Schumacher took the majority of key people with him.

Actually makes sense really

Maybe, maybe not - still the fact remains, whether you want to blame Schumacher or not. However, somewhere along the line if Benetton Renault were so pure and good, somebody should have said 'no'!

[cavallino 2]

This really is a good point...

Pat Symonds? Flavio Briatore? Didn't see them at Ferrari.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Flavio I wouldn't trust as far as I can throw him, but I trust Symmonds (as far as you can anyone in racing). Every one of them tries to get around the rules in various ways, but there are those that go further than most. Anyway, isn't the old saying something like 'it's not against the rules until there's a rule'? Until there's a ruling on this, Ferrari and whomever else are still legal. If you're still legal, you aren't cheating.

The calls of 'Ferrari cheat' in this instance are premature.

[cavallino 2]

Symonds was fairly high up at Benetton at that time, there is no way the whole sagawould have happened without his knowledge.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Bullsh!t. I want TMDs, flexible wings and moving untertrays. I want active-ride. I want any interesting innovation on the cars, regardless of team. If the part is overly dangerous, then kill it, but otherwise all innovation should be fair game.

yes the deigners should be given much more flexibility to implement radical ideas.

mind you i'm sure that the FIA have a good reason why the rules are as they are

[Player(1) 0]

Very flattering of you think Flavio could have any hand in the mechanical side of F1 cars.

[pabloh20 1]

Very flattering of you think Flavio could have any hand in the mechanical side of F1 cars.

Well, he may not get his hands dirty, though he is always sweaty when on tv, but presumably he must have an idea what's going on in the team, being team boss and all.

[pabloh20 1]

Flavio I wouldn't trust as far as I can throw him, but I trust Symmonds (as far as you can anyone in racing). Every one of them tries to get around the rules in various ways, but there are those that go further than most. Anyway, isn't the old saying something like 'it's not against the rules until there's a rule'? Until there's a ruling on this, Ferrari and whomever else are still legal. If you're still legal, you aren't cheating.

The calls of 'Ferrari cheat' in this instance are premature.

Indeed.

[Shane2 0]

Symonds was fairly high up at Benetton at that time, there is no way the whole sagawould have happened without his knowledge.

Symonds is a stratergist not a technician. I doubt he would have had much input into the technical side of the cars

[cavallino 2]

Symonds is a stratergist not a technician. I doubt he would have had much input into the technical side of the cars

Man seriously, I am not looking for fights. Picking arguments may be fun in the short run, but it is an utter waste of time. I don't want to get into a war of words with you, but I find it difficult to restrain myself when confronted with someone trying to pass off a brazen bluff as fact. You odn't know who Pat Symonds is, say so. Or don't. Don't just pull the first thing that comes to your mind and post it, and then be insufferably arrogant about it. I am often insufferably arrogant, but always with good reason. If I make a mistake, I admit it. I want totry to get along, I really do. But I won't have the patience every time to reply with civility, when confronted with such complete bulls##t. That's just me.

Paul Symonds is as 'techie' as they come.

[cavallino 2]

Very flattering of you think Flavio could have any hand in the mechanical side of F1 cars.

If Flavio's team is cheating, or bending the rules to put it more palatably (is that a word?), he would be an awful incompetent team boss if he didn't know what was going on. History suggests that's not the case.

[Player(1) 0]

When did they bend or break the rules? TMD's where banned on what other teams could eventually be using them for and not for what Renault was using them for.

Then you throw in the dodgy timing of the ruling which makes it even more outrageous. Atleast with Ferrari they are banning flexi-floors for the purpose they are made and at the start of a year when it has only been used in what... 2 races? TMD was banned after being used in like 12 or 13 races in the middle of a championship battle?

I know you love to jump on anything to spin it so you can throw mud in the other direction but if you thought about it you might come up with some decent arguement, bit of a boy that cryed wolf syndrome going on.