Arse Air

[Autumnpuma 0]

So. I've been pondering something that I heard or read somewhere. It might have been Brundle, but someone made the comment that a lot of teams design their rear wings and diffusers to purposefully disrupt the air behind the car to screw up any passing that the trailing car might attempt. After watching Oz, and seeing a number of drivers pulling off passes left and right only to get stymied behind certain cars, I got to thinking that Brundle (or whomever it was) might just be right. It's mighty odd that Hamilton was passing everyone he came upon until he got behind a Ferrari. At that point he began complaining about his tyres going off-form. That's rubbish considering his rears showed no more or less graining than his previous set when he was passing cars. It's also telling that Alonso, who is known for his ability to overtake, was stuck behind a slower and sloppier Massa.

Ok, I know, blame Ferrari for everything. But hey, if I see a duck, I'm shooting. And I see a duck (or ducks as the case may be). Renault also seem disturbingly hard to pass but Red Bull do not. I can't decide about McLaren yet, but I'll be watching. Judging by how much dicing was being done back on the grid, I would guess the lesser teams are more focused on efficiency than chicanery. With the exception of Lotus. I'm going to watch them as well.

I'm more and more convinced that DOF's suggestions have merit. We've gotten some mechanical grip back with the slicks but have killed 10% of it with narrow front tyres. We've induced understeer by raising the front wing to a silly height and we've let the teams design a back-end that can prevent a trailing car's overtaking moves.

We need to lower the front wing and get bigger front tyres. We need to standardize the rear wing and diffuser. These changes alone will solve the overtaking problem even if we keep all the other asinine rules that have been implemented. Really, just standardizing the rear wing and diffuser will do it, but in for a penny in for a pound...

[HandyNZL 1]

I thought this thread was about a bold new airline taking on Virgin with some Arses...oh well...

As for your thoughts on F1....

A standard aero package, as it were, does lead down the path to spec regs...however, that said...I do feel the only way to get passing back is two fold....

One - the wings - much much much more passing in days of yore when they were all still figuring out exactly how wings worked. The front wings today have more elements to them than the Red Barons tri-plane. It's just silly. Compare that to almost any other single seater category, all with simple wings, front and rear, and simple diffusers, and funny thing happens - overtaking. I think they should allow freedom of wings, but specify number of elements (one for front, two max for rear), width, heights etc - and certainly no d#cky wings as they have now.

Two - braking - when brakes are Sh#te, passes are possible. The brakes are too powerful, and for the most part, supplied by Brembo. IRL is a spec series, spec brakes etc, but still you see people ovetaking under brakes...why? The brakes are not ultra efficient - they are very efficient, but not so that the cars stop on a dime (or a penny, or a five cent piece, or a ruble). The other reason? On road courses they have longer straights to allow the cars to get to full speed, thus braking distances can really come into play. If Melbournes front straight was twice as long, Hamilton would have passed Alonso as both the brakes and Alonso lack of tyre grip would have aided Hamilton (or any other driver for that matter, maybe even that 41-yo guy).

Sure the teams would squeel if someone told them they had to use a spec brake that was not as efficient as their current one, and most likely on safety grounds, citing Montreal as being a brake eater and thus inferior brakes would see someone getting killed. Well, thats just BS as the drivers will just drive to the limit of the brakes...if your brakes are going off, or not that strong to begin with you alter your driving to compensate i.e. braking distances increase to the 200m board, not the 50m board - 4 times the distance and time for someone to sneak up the inside.

But none of this will happen whilst the teams have a say. They are about self preservation, but what I don't get is that the smaller teams should be for such measures as it means they would at least have half a chance.

[Jean Todt 4]

Me too thought something similar....I thought someone is stuck in the airport after his flight got cancelled and is using the airport's wifi..

But anyways.....Alonso said that he would have tried to pass Massa if he was driving for someother team....I think there was a mutual agreement between them....

[maure 1]

Arse air?

Okay-dokey.

[DOF_power 0]

So. I've been pondering something that I heard or read somewhere. It might have been Brundle, but someone made the comment that a lot of teams design their rear wings and diffusers to purposefully disrupt the air behind the car to screw up any passing that the trailing car might attempt. After watching Oz, and seeing a number of drivers pulling off passes left and right only to get stymied behind certain cars, I got to thinking that Brundle (or whomever it was) might just be right. It's mighty odd that Hamilton was passing everyone he came upon until he got behind a Ferrari. At that point he began complaining about his tyres going off-form. That's rubbish considering his rears showed no more or less graining than his previous set when he was passing cars. It's also telling that Alonso, who is known for his ability to overtake, was stuck behind a slower and sloppier Massa.

Ok, I know, blame Ferrari for everything. But hey, if I see a duck, I'm shooting. And I see a duck (or ducks as the case may be). Renault also seem disturbingly hard to pass but Red Bull do not. I can't decide about McLaren yet, but I'll be watching. Judging by how much dicing was being done back on the grid, I would guess the lesser teams are more focused on efficiency than chicanery. With the exception of Lotus. I'm going to watch them as well.

I'm more and more convinced that DOF's suggestions have merit. We've gotten some mechanical grip back with the slicks but have killed 10% of it with narrow front tyres. We've induced understeer by raising the front wing to a silly height and we've let the teams design a back-end that can prevent a trailing car's overtaking moves.

We need to lower the front wing and get bigger front tyres. We need to standardize the rear wing and diffuser. These changes alone will solve the overtaking problem even if we keep all the other asinine rules that have been implemented. Really, just standardizing the rear wing and diffuser will do it, but in for a penny in for a pound...

If you don't want standardization you'll need disruption and sensitivity tests akin to the safety tests.

The full solution is adaptive aero with some standardized parts (undertrays-and rear exit).

[tifosi too! 0]

If you don't want standardization you'll need disruption and sensitivity tests akin to the safety tests.

The full solution is adaptive aero with some standardized parts (undertrays-and rear exit).

It seems you and Mike agree on this one then!

//Sorryyy!!

//Carry on!

[raw 0]

So. I've been pondering something that I heard or read somewhere. It might have been Brundle, but someone made the comment that a lot of teams design their rear wings and diffusers to purposefully disrupt the air behind the car to screw up any passing that the trailing car might attempt. After watching Oz, and seeing a number of drivers pulling off passes left and right only to get stymied behind certain cars, I got to thinking that Brundle (or whomever it was) might just be right. It's mighty odd that Hamilton was passing everyone he came upon until he got behind a Ferrari. At that point he began complaining about his tyres going off-form. That's rubbish considering his rears showed no more or less graining than his previous set when he was passing cars. It's also telling that Alonso, who is known for his ability to overtake, was stuck behind a slower and sloppier Massa.

It's kinda ovious, isn't it? Anyway if I was the one responsible for F1 car design, it would surely be high on my priority list.

As for Hamilton - I wasn't surprised that he got past Webber and stuck behind Alonso. But hey - actually he could've done it if it wasn't for Mark who rammed his arse

[Autumnpuma 0]

It's kinda ovious, isn't it? Anyway if I was the one responsible for F1 car design, it would surely be high on my priority list.

As for Hamilton - I wasn't surprised that he got past Webber and stuck behind Alonso. But hey - actually he could've done it if it wasn't for Mark who rammed his arse

Maybe, but I doubt it. Not because of any air disturbance but his momentum was scrubbed when he shifted his line and as a result his turn angle was sharper than Alonso's. I think Alonso would have been faster on the throttle because of it. Also, Alonso knows full-well how to keep a driver behind him. Remember, he kept a charging Mikey the Schu behind him in Istanbul a few years back.

I still suspect the Ferrari of disrupting their airflow, regardless of how good Alonso is at defensive driving.

[HandyNZL 1]

Yes. Ferrari has an arse duct.