176 replies to this topic

[HandyNZL]

Massa, on 28 June 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

And now Ecclestone's false claims about New Jersey being behind schedule make sense, don't they?  It wasn't adding up at first, but you can only have twenty races, and Ecclestone (maybe sensibly, maybe not) lost interest in a race that's close to New York for a race that's actually in London to take Valencia's place.

EDIT: Wow, that layout flat out sucks on paper...one of the worst designs I've ever seen a drawing of, and I've seen some real **** drawn up in a parking lot for SCCA stuff.  Maybe it will be better in real life.  I've seen wonderful street circuits, but this one's obviously been chosen for location and not for the actual roads it is using being conducive to anything of interest, so I guess I shouldn't have expected much.

Good way to live life, then you will always be surprised rather than let down


(I'm such a cynic)

[JHS18]

Here's the Santander thing of what a London track could look like too.

Edited by JHS18, 28 June 2012 - 10:47 PM.

[Rainmaster]

That Santander driver is awful.

[HandyNZL]

Turn 9 looks like a passing spot....get on the inside into the right hander 90, hold onto the position as best you can through the following open two lefts, then pull away as you are on the inside out of the exit right hander.

Also turn 5 is a possibility.

I can't imagine them forced into single file though through an arch - that seems a bit out there in today's safety conscious world.

[Rainmaster]

Yeah, the single file part at the end is ridiculous.

[Rainmaster]

James Allen covers this whole story well, http://www.jamesalle...ondon-gp-track/

[The Shadow]

Rainmaster, on 29 June 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

Yeah, the single file part at the end is ridiculous.

What if they make it 2 tunnels? Drag race opportunity.

[HandyNZL]

Still a whopping big solid obstacle in your path...do I go left...do I go right...do I...oh ****...*smashes into column*

[HandyNZL]

Rainmaster, on 29 June 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

James Allen covers this whole story well, http://www.jamesalle...ondon-gp-track/

Haha...Boris the Mayor is worried about air quality...so he must fear improved quality as having the race would reduce normal traffic flows for the duration, and therefore improve the air.  And yeah, sure it'd be noisy, but I am sure the queen has some royal ear muffs she could put on...

[Massa]

So we have Spa-Francorchamps for 2013, 2014, and 2015, which is a change, and a nice one.

http://www.gpupdate....il-2015-season/

I wonder if this is why Ecclestone won't let New Jersey on the calendar in 2013?  Does Paul Ricard get New Jersey's full-time, annual date?  Or did the French election just kill all the plans for a race at Paul Ricard to begin with?

[Rainmaster]

Happy Spa is safe, even if it's only delaying the inevitable.

[JHS18]

One of the best circuits on the calendar, if not THE best circuit on the calendar deserves a long term future.

Happy the Paul Ricard thing is dead. That is not one of the greatest tracks...

[JHS18]

HandyNZL, on 29 June 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

but I am sure the queen has some royal ear muffs she could put on...

Funny thing was the Queen actually wore earplugs for her own jubilee concert thing a few weeks ago. I'd like to think that was more to do with how terrible the acts were though rather than how loud they were.

[Massa]

Is Paul Ricard officially dead, then?  It wasn't clear if that was done, or if it was getting a different date (one of its own, or sharing with someone else).

[Massa]

What result can a Grand Prix have a country?

Look at the U.S. TV ratings from 2007-2012 for the races aired on FOX.

Blue is the ratings number.  Red is estimated viewers in millions.  Still one more race on FOX left this year...but it looks to me like interest is up this year, back to the levels it was the last time we had a USGP...you should put races where there's interest, but you also need to consider that you can create interest if you do it correctly...

[JHS18]

Massa, on 09 July 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

Is Paul Ricard officially dead, then?  It wasn't clear if that was done, or if it was getting a different date (one of its own, or sharing with someone else).

I believe from memory it had the support of Sarkozy and the deal WOULD have been done had he remained in power. But as it is, he isn't, so it hasn't gone ahead.

[Massa]

Thanks, figured the election changed it.  And so the drama continues...what is Ecclestone talking about with the New Jersey race...it seems to me:

1. He found a different twentieth race, but since London is still fantasy and Paul Ricard is off, I have no idea what that would be.  Argentina?

2. He wants to get Tavo Hellmund, his friend, in charge over Leo Hindery.  Wouldn't put it past him.  Hellmund's no longer involved with the race in Texas.

3. The New Jersey race literally has no money.  Consider it was coming from all private money with no government help.  It's entirely possible they couldn't make that work.  And the government won't support it (whether they should or should not is a political discussion I'm not going to have) for a huge reason: how many people traveling to the race are going to be staying in, eating in, shopping in, etc. in Weehawken, New Jersey or in West New York, New Jersey?  And how many are going to be staying in, eating in, shopping in, etc. in New York?  This race does nothing for anyone in New Jersey, government-wise.  All the money is going to end up in New York.  All the prestige will go to New York, too, since it turns out the British press is just as horrible at geography as the American press is, and thinks this race in New York which it actually isn't.

So if they did need government help, they wouldn't get it.  And since I'm pretty sure a race in Hudson County that isn't funded by the government is honestly funded by the mob...maybe Ecclestone is telling the truth that the money's not there...

[JHS18]

I'd take Bernie's comments with a pinch of salt, typically.

In the past he has always made comments about "oh I'm not sure we're going to be racing there" etc, and 99.9% of the time they always do. I remember when there was a load of speculation about whether Korea would be ready in 2010, as it was behind schedule. Bernie made some comment in Singapore saying "it doesn't seem like it is ready so we'll have to make a call soon" and then a few weeks later, they were there. Bernie's comments are always to put a bit of a pressure on the place, to pay more money/speed up or whatever.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that he said there wouldn't be twenty races next year, but I'm not sure. But I don't think we'll really see much change in the calendar for 2013, Korea may go, Spain will probably alternate between Valencia/Barcelona...but other than New Jersey (if it does go ahead) there don't appear to be many candidates I've heard of that are ready to host a race right now. The London thing (rather predictably) seems to have dropped off the radar for now, and I doubt that'll happen in 2013 if it ever does happen. Not enough time to get everything sorted, and with the Olympics in a few weeks, I doubt much progress will be made regarding that right now.

Edited by JHS18, 10 July 2012 - 10:12 PM.

[Massa]

Ecclestone has cast doubts over races before, true, but has he ever said that a race will, with 100% certainty, not be on the calendar?  That's what he said about New Jersey...you wouldn't say something like that to just "speed things up" or "keep it in the news."  That to me either has to be the truth, or be a tactic to get some secret demands he has met (whether that's a new promoter or otherwise).

[Massa]

Mr. Ecclestone says London isn't a joke...

http://www.gpupdate....sts-ecclestone/

...so I guess since it's "not a joke" it will include shortcuts, sprinklers, and grid girls dressed in all white.  And any trains taking people to the track will be on time...

We'll see how it pans out I guess.  If any country can actually support two, it's the United Kingdom, and I'm sure if the calendar has to be so large, the teams would really prefer 10% of a twenty race season to be at home.

But I'm always careful to believe rumors like this, because Ecclestone's plans in big cities never work out for a lot of reasons.  However, it does follow the model of the Russian Grand Prix in Sochi, using facilities that the city already invested in anyway and don't want to let go to waste, so there is some kind of argument to this one as opposed to his past plans in Las Vegas and NYC.

And while I don't like to be that guy, I will be: I know the U.K. only has one FIA Grade I track and trying to upgrade Donington was a train wreck, but seeing street circuits in countries with rich racing histories is sort of sad to me.  I'm all for street circuits, and they're a good way to get countries without the racing tradition involved in the World Championship, but street races in places that have racing courses and racing heritage is...well...reality so I'll quit complaining.

[monza gorilla]

Bring back Crystal Palace.

[JHS18]

Massa, on 12 July 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

And while I don't like to be that guy, I will be: I know the U.K. only has one FIA Grade I track and trying to upgrade Donington was a train wreck, but seeing street circuits in countries with rich racing histories is sort of sad to me.  I'm all for street circuits, and they're a good way to get countries without the racing tradition involved in the World Championship, but street races in places that have racing courses and racing heritage is...well...reality so I'll quit complaining.

I agree.

Most street tracks are pretty horrible. The only thing London has going for it on the basis of the Santander thing is that it goes past some famous places like Buckingham Palace, and that's about it. After that it is the same as every other street circuit in the world.

Slow corners, few passing places, tedium.

Monaco's the only real exception as it deserves its place on the calendar but...there's too many street tracks on the calendar already.

Saying that though, I can imagine that there will be more races held in big cities in the future. Done correctly, like Singapore, and it perfectly suits F1's image.

[JHS18]

Seems lke the potential for a London Grand Prix just got a little bit closer to reality:

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/101255

[Massa]

Meanwhile, Nürburgring is beginning insolvency proceedings.  One wonders if they will be needing a different race for Hockenheim to alternate with, though Ecclestone says he hopes to keep the race alive.  The EU is not supporting the bankrupt Nürburgring or something like that.  Don't ask me.  I don't even know what the EU really is or does.

[Jean Todt]

Here.
http://www.worldcarf...urburgring-race

[JHS18]

Surpised me. You'd think with how the European economy is at the moment (Germany being the strongest) that the last European venue to go bankrupt would be a German one. Confusing situation.

[Quiet One]

Hockenheim this year sales were 20% below expectations. For the strongest country in EU, with a passion for F1 with not one but 5 drivers including a 7 times WDC and the current champion, I'd say it's rather poor.

I blame the increase in blowhorns prices.

[Rainmaster]

About the 'Ring: didn't the owner of the track do some crazy financial scheme with it? Building a shopping mall, theme park, etc, which never even opened or something like that? Which lost them millions? I'm sure it was quite the scandal in Germany.

I may have made all that up. A quick Youtube search tells me I didn't:

[JHS18]

Quiet One, on 19 July 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

Hockenheim this year sales were 20% below expectations. For the strongest country in EU, with a passion for F1 with not one but 5 drivers including a 7 times WDC and the current champion, I'd say it's rather poor.

To be honest, with the financial mess combined with how expensive Formula One tickets are, I don't find it that big a surprise. I'd be more surprised to hear of any race, European or otherwise, improving on last year's attendance.

Bahrain...well, that was pretty obvious, Barcelona was down by around 20,000 apparently, Canada's was down (that was more down to that student protest than anything else), Valencia only had 45,000 grand stand tickets - down on previous years, Silverstone had the whole parking problem on the Saturday...it goes on.

Edited by JHS18, 19 July 2012 - 06:59 PM.

[Quiet One]

JHS18, on 19 July 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

To be honest, with the financial mess combined with how expensive Formula One tickets are, I don't find it that big a surprise. I'd be more surprised to hear of any race, European or otherwise, improving on last year's attendance.

Bahrain...well, that was pretty obvious, Barcelona was down by around 20,000 apparently, Canada's was down (that was more down to that student protest than anything else), Valencia only had 45,000 grand stand tickets - down on previous years, Silverstone had the whole parking problem on the Saturday...it goes on.

Yes, I understand the situation about other countries, but it still surprised me that Hockenheim would struggle this year with sales. I have no idea about the prices but they must be very high as it is usually packed there in Germany  being as passionate as they are about their drivers in such an exceptional year for Germany's F1.
Maybe they do not want to witness another embarrasing weekend from Schumi?