Jense: 'michael Will Be Beaten'

[AutoRacer5 0]

Button will not get BAR's first win unless the team politics are straightened out. I always will think that Sauber will win before BAR, and JV should be the one to do it.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Yes maybe in a different lifetime my friend, or maybe on a different planet. JV was never going to win in a BAR, he found it difficult enough with a supreme Williamas in 1997 against MS. Button has come so close this year and has been unlucky. Imagine the German GP if he hadnt had the penalty, or maybe an extra 10 laps of monaco!!

[Sato 0]

Jenson didn't threaten at every race at all. And Kimi won a race button did it. Face the facts, the stats beat you on this one.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Well as a Takuma Sato supporter its no wonder you're angry at the world. Stats prove YOU wrong my good sir. Look at the amount of times Kimi threatened to win. What 3 at the most? Button was always up there, and you know he was unlucky not to win a GP this year. You'll be crying next year when Sato gets fired from BAR for not improving at all

[Sato 0]

Well as a Takuma Sato supporter its no wonder you're angry at the world. Stats prove YOU wrong my good sir. Look at the amount of times Kimi threatened to win. What 3 at the most? Button was always up there, and you know he was unlucky not to win a GP this year. You'll be crying next year when Sato gets fired from BAR for not improving at all

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The stats prove you wrong because Button has ever won, Kimi has and did last year. I'll be dissapointed if Sato doesn't improve/gets fired, but that goes without saying for someone you follow. I bet you were crying yourself to sleep at night when drivers like Michael Schumacher tipped Sato to beat Button to the first win for BAR.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I'm happy to admit that Kimi had an amazing race in Belgium, he breezed past his team-mate with no bother and beat everyone. But Button was a threat far more often, and it really is only a matter of time until he wins a race, and many more will follow. I think we'd all agree that its very unlikely that Sato will beat JB to BAR's first victory. 1 podium to 10 in 2004.......

[Sato 0]

I'm  happy to admit that Kimi had an amazing race in Belgium, he breezed past his team-mate with no bother and beat everyone. But Button was a threat far more often, and it really is only a matter of time until he wins a race, and many more will follow. I think we'd all agree that its very unlikely that Sato will beat JB to BAR's first victory. 1 podium to 10 in 2004.......

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I never said kimi threatened more though i said the stats beat you because kimi won and button didn't that was my point in the first place. I don't think Button will ever be WDC because he just doesn't have what it takes in my eyes, if he proves me wrong so be it. But if Sato wins the WDC no big deal, noone expects it, not even me, but Button and his brit fans think he is gods gift to F1 for some reason.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Thats cos us Brits love our sporting heroes and we're thankful that JB has come along cos Irvine DC Herbert and the rest weren't able to become the next Damon Hill!! But I believe Button has what it takes. If you don't thats fair enough it'll be interesting to see what happens. I firmly believe that Alonso is nowhere near as good as all the hype says he is

[Sato 0]

Thats cos us Brits love our sporting heroes and we're thankful that JB has come along cos Irvine DC Herbert and the rest weren't able to become the next Damon Hill!! But I believe Button has what it takes. If you don't thats fair enough it'll be interesting to see what happens. I firmly believe that Alonso is nowhere near as good as all the hype says he is

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You might be surprised to know Damon Hill is my favourite driver of all time then. I also though maybe Alonso wasnt so good, but then you see Trulli had slid back alot and Alonso was out performing him a fair bit and then JV (who did well considering how long he'd been out etc.) So i think it really was the development of the Reno was poor, i'd say losing gascoyne was taking abit of an impact mid season at reno.

[Shadow 0]

Are'nt we all fans of Hill? He is my second fav joint with Heinz-Herald( I have'nt seen Aryton or Gilles drive so I can't say about them, I have read a lot though).

But as you, say, Sato, Kimi won a race as did JPM and JB did'nt win with a superior car( both Mclaren and Williams were shoddy this year and the BAR was easily second best)

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Yes the Renault wasnt too great by the end of the season. I hope Toyota are better than Renault next year!! Trulli was outperforming Alonso for most of the season until Briatore starting being a stupid fat slob and recruited JV who drives about 2 seconds a lap slower than everyone else

[Shadow 0]

Hold your horses man, there are more JV fans here( myself included) and we all know JV matched Alonso's times in the final race. He was terribly unluckly not to get points. He is top in testing did you notice?

[Sato 0]

Trulli out performed Alonso like 3 or 4 times and thought he was the next Aryton Senna or Michael Schumacher, he got put in his place pretty damn fast.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

JV was not as fast as Alonso at all in any of the races. and topping testing? that means nothing at all. The lap times vary completely cos everyones testing different parts and not going for the best lap time, fool. JV has never impressed me. His only fans are canadians, and who else can they cheer for? In any sport for that matter?

[Sato 0]

topping testing? that means nothing at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is a god.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

well its true isnt it. 1 day Gene will be fastest in testing, next day JV, next day Pizzonia. Who cares!!

[Sato 0]

I've been tyring to convince alot of them this for a few days now.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Well they'll be convinced when theyre watching the Australian GP, when JV qualifies 14th and they think "hey, but he was fastest in testing that day in december!" morons

[Shadow 0]

you know I am starting to think our Nicklaus was better in some ways.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Je ne comprends pas

[Shadow 0]

Oh that guy was a member. Just like you. he hated JV for reasons never discovered. No need to try your French over here.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Dont get me wrong I don't hate JV. Its just that he's never impressed me and I actually feel sorry for him he must be quite embarrassed by his Renault showings, even if he did have a year off. I was pointing out that testing times this winter dont really show who's going to win in March, JV was just an example cos someone said "hey didnt u notice JV topped the timesheets"

[Sato 0]

Exactly its not about JV hating or thinking he is bad, its about test times meaning nothing, i thinnk JV is quite a good driver, personally.

[nojvnof1 0]

jemstride, you really have no idea about JV fans my friend. He has fans from ALL over the world. Just go to his website and read his message board, or some of the websites dedicated to Jacques and you'll see he has fans in England, Germany, India, Malaysia, Pakistan, Greece, here in Australia, Croatia, Spain, Serbia, Austria, just to name a few!!

As for his stint at Renault. Now seriously, he was never going to do anything and it proved beneficial in that he knows what the race pace will be like come next season and he has a feel for Michelin tyres, were you expecting him to win? Even Autosport claim he did a great job and "went as quick as Trulli would have went". Look he only had very limited testing in a very dodgy car, as explained by Fisi, who stated that he understands why JV was so slow as the car is very very hard to set up and needs alot of time to get used to. Add to that the fact he had been out of racing for a year and was lacking race fitness, not surprising considering the cars were 3 seconds faster than last year. THe conditions didn't suit in Japan and in Brazil he was matching Alonso's times, even beating them. After China and Japan JV admitted all the fitness issues and acknowledged he wasn't as fast as he would have liked and indeed said he was embarassed, but never had a bad word about the car or team and just said he'll work hard and do his best, which is the most anyone can do.

As for him topping testing, Im the first to admit this is no way an indication that JV is going to win the title or work miracles, but it's been so long since we've read Villeneuve P1, that we got excited, sheesh, is that a crime??!!

[kiko01 0]

[quote name='jemstride' date='Dec 7 2004, 02:07 PM']Thats cos us Brits love our sporting heroes and we're thankful that JB has come along cos Irvine DC Herbert and the rest weren't able to become the next Damon Hill!! But I believe Button has what it takes. If you don't thats fair enough it'll be interesting to see what happens. I firmly believe that Alonso is nowhere near as good as all the hype says he is
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I don