Seb Speaks His Mind.

[KoolMonkey 0]

WebRic that's your sole opinion. You're the only person that keeps on about Seb being a "brat" at RBR. I didn't feel he was. He has matured, but we all do with age. Having a family, having a tough year in 2014 also matured him, but you make it out like he's some Justin Bieber douche who then suddenly turned into Walter Kronkite.

[Emmcee 0]

Yeah well he kinda was lol

[Sakae 0]

The only "crime" Vettel committed during his tenure with RBR is, that he refused to put up with Webber generated nonsense, and slot into No. 2 for his team-mate's pleasure. Everything else was just consequential. Dr. Marko saw it and didn't like it either. Seb has become his protege, and war ensued, with Webber playing in public arena a victim with the full support of anglo-media.

[Emmcee 0]

As soon as redbull saw Vettel was faster, they put all there eggs in his basket, especially since he was a redbull development driver, there going to back him before anyone else in the team. Didn't have much time for Seb on those days or marko even still now.

[Massa 0]

I think the fairest assessment of Vettel's maturity:

(1) When he first came into the sport (Toro Rosso), there were some troubles. The Fuji incident (or was it Shanghai?) stands out (well, it must not stand out much because I don't remember which race). But then STR's noted for not being the most fun place to drive. Alguersuari and Buemi's accounts verify that for me. The whole model of STR is to drive a wedge between the drivers so they focus on each other more than anything else. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. But Red Bull's always been a high-pressure program—look at all the drivers they've cut and how the contract terms Red Bull has can devastate their ability to land anywhere else in the future. So, you have little to rely on. In other situations, if you don't succeed in the eyes of your team, some other team might see potential. At Red Bull, if you don't succeed in Red Bull's eyes, nothing else matters because they've got you locked the heck up (and fighting it can be just as damaging to your career. I am biased, but I seriously think Scott Speed was right. Franz Tost physically assaulted him! That's extreme and uncalled for. But by being vocal about the issues at STR, no team would take Speed. Even if he told the truth, even if he were justified in doing so, no team wants a driver who turns on a team).

(2) For most of his time at Red Bull, I think a lot of "maturity" issues were just a fierce competitive drive. The guy hated to lose. It looks immature when you're young, and it's certainly an undesirable quality outside of F1, but in motor racing, it's the very essence of the most romanticized champions.

(3) I thought that he showed incredible maturity in 2014 at Red Bull. He was usually very gracious in defeat.

[Emmcee 0]

I think the fairest assessment of Vettel's maturity:

(1) When he first came into the sport (Toro Rosso), there were some troubles. The Fuji incident (or was it Shanghai?) stands out (well, it must not stand out much because I don't remember which race). But then STR's noted for not being the most fun place to drive. Alguersuari and Buemi's accounts verify that for me. The whole model of STR is to drive a wedge between the drivers so they focus on each other more than anything else. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. But Red Bull's always been a high-pressure program—look at all the drivers they've cut and how the contract terms Red Bull has can devastate their ability to land anywhere else in the future. So, you have little to rely on. In other situations, if you don't succeed in the eyes of your team, some other team might see potential. At Red Bull, if you don't succeed in Red Bull's eyes, nothing else matters because they've got you locked the heck up (and fighting it can be just as damaging to your career. I am biased, but I seriously think Scott Speed was right. Franz Tost physically assaulted him! That's extreme and uncalled for. But by being vocal about the issues at STR, no team would take Speed. Even if he told the truth, even if he were justified in doing so, no team wants a driver who turns on a team).

(2) For most of his time at Red Bull, I think a lot of "maturity" issues were just a fierce competitive drive. The guy hated to lose. It looks immature when you're young, and it's certainly an undesirable quality outside of F1, but in motor racing, it's the very essence of the most romanticized champions.

(3) I thought that he showed incredible maturity in 2014 at Red Bull. He was usually very gracious in defeat.

Good post, agree 100%

[BradSpeedMan 6]

The only "crime" Vettel committed during his tenure with RBR is, that he refused to put up with Webber generated nonsense, and slot into No. 2 for his team-mate's pleasure. Everything else was just consequential. Dr. Marko saw it and didn't like it either. Seb has become his protege, and war ensued, with Webber playing in public arena a victim with the full support of anglo-media.

Good post, agree 100%

[Emmcee 0]

Look at it from a realistic point of view, a view as if you would run the team and make decisions. Ok, the only time webber received "fair" treatment at redbull while they were competitive was 2009 and 2010. When I say "fair" I mean with the "best" equal opportunity and not just a word of mouth equality from Horner or someone but a fair dinkum equal shot. Towards the end of 2010 redbull had to make a choice of which driver they would support and help more than the other. Now from a realistic stand point, who would you pick? A driver who has years of experience and help build the team and is closing in on the backend of his career or a young driver you put through your training program, picked out as a kid and you invested in him and the results have shown what your academy can do. Who's better for your team? Who's better investment wise and sponsor wise? That's why they picked Vettel, webber was upset by the back door shenanigans going on and actually being lied to by his own team. Who here remembers some of the bogus strategy calls redbull made while webber was still the obvious driver out of the two who could win the title in 2010 yet the strategy seemed to work out for Vettel at the time he needed it to the most. Marko loved Vettel and he and webber had a pretty strained relationship so of course when controversy arrives, they backed his corner more so than webber's nothing more evident of this than Turkey 2010. This is where I didn't like his behaviour, he knew the team would boot webber way before him so he was able to do what he wanted and even make his own strategy calls against the team and get away with it.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Look at it from a realistic point of view, a view as if you would run the team and make decisions. Ok, the only time webber received "fair" treatment at redbull while they were competitive was 2009 and 2010. When I say "fair" I mean with the "best" equal opportunity and not just a word of mouth equality from Horner or someone but a fair dinkum equal shot. Towards the end of 2010 redbull had to make a choice of which driver they would support and help more than the other. Now from a realistic stand point, who would you pick? A driver who has years of experience and help build the team and is closing in on the backend of his career or a young driver you put through your training program, picked out as a kid and you invested in him and the results have shown what your academy can do. Who's better for your team? Who's better investment wise and sponsor wise? That's why they picked Vettel, webber was upset by the back door shenanigans going on and actually being lied to by his own team. Who here remembers some of the bogus strategy calls redbull made while webber was still the obvious driver out of the two who could win the title in 2010 yet the strategy seemed to work out for Vettel at the time he needed it to the most. Marko loved Vettel and he and webber had a pretty strained relationship so of course when controversy arrives, they backed his corner more so than webber's nothing more evident of this than Turkey 2010. This is where I didn't like his behaviour, he knew the team would boot webber way before him so he was able to do what he wanted and even make his own strategy calls against the team and get away with it.

Webric,

you tire me out bru... you always respond with these long post that were points we discuss over an over again... thats why I don't find the need to respond to you everytime, I just skim over your post... I do value your input, but it gets tiring sometimes defending the same points and aint goin nowhere...

[Emmcee 0]

Well way are these stories consistently brought up then? I wouldn't post about it otherwise, seems like certain people can say certain things. If the above post didn't mention webber and his behaviour, I simply wouldn't have brought up my opinion. I find it very amusing tbh because some stuff I know about I would love to share but people just wouldn't believe it or refuse to or make a big scene about it so I keep it to myself, but it does get mighty hard when bogus stuff gets posted.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Well way are these stories consistently brought up then? I wouldn't post about it otherwise

..

True, there are new ppl. But dont you think that when those new ppl say exactly the same things we been saying...and more, that there might be an element if truth with what we said before? Food for thought

[Emmcee 0]

I take all possibilities into account, so much in fact I have an addiction to over annalising apparently. 10 years ago brad, I would've agreed with everything majority of people here disagree with me about but once I met Sam Michaels brother and hearing about stories that didn't even make the press or magazines or what ever. Majority made so much sense when it's in relation to stories the media posted compared to someone who most likely saw it or heard about it first hand, the other side (truth) never gets heard and that has also made me approach everything from a totally different perspective, also actually racing karts myself for a few years and as I've heard many times before that a kart is the closest thing there is steering response to an f1 car, that's why many still do it, but the experience I got I put into perspective when making decisions but each to there own I suppose, that's why we have forums and its to discuss things like this, we might not agree, but I still totally respect your knowledge.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I take all possibilities into account, so much in fact I have an addiction to over annalising apparently. 10 years ago brad, I would've agreed with everything majority of people here disagree with me about but once I met Sam Michaels brother and hearing about stories that didn't even make the press or magazines or what ever. Majority made so much sense when it's in relation to stories the media posted compared to someone who most likely saw it or heard about it first hand, the other side (truth) never gets heard and that has also made me approach everything from a totally different perspective, also actually racing karts myself for a few years and as I've heard many times before that a kart is the closest thing there is steering response to an f1 car, that's why many still do it, but the experience I got I put into perspective when making decisions but each to there own I suppose, that's why we have forums and its to discuss things like this, we might not agree, but I still totally respect your knowledge.

If i remember Sam Michaels was with Williams then Mclaren right. Because the dude is australian who is he really going to back. yea things makes sense...clearly. Except he did'nt work at RBR, did he hear those inside stories from Webbo himself?.... hmmm yeah makes sense. Ole Webbo was suppose to be nr1 after Coulthard left, a point Sakae touched on. Perception can be a dangerous thing, like this famous one. "Parallel to the claims of Red Bull persistently favouring Vettel there have been insinuations of Webber receiving inferior or less reliable equipment. But the data from the five years they spent as team mates debunks the view that either driver had considerably worse or better machinery at their disposal. Vettel’s race-ending technical failures outnumbered Webber’s seven to four during their five years as team mates. And taking non-terminal failures into account shows the pair were reasonably closely matched in this respect." http://www.f1fanatic...tels-team-mate/

yea things makes sense mate

[Emmcee 0]

You forgot that webber was at Williams the same time as Sam so a relationship developed beyond the years of working together. Often seen catching up over a coffee or something like that so they did chat after being at the same team together and there are plenty of stories I've never heard of. Like the fact Schumacher loved to dance after a few drinks. Although apparently he wasn't real good at it, it made for some good fun and jokes later on. Iam not saying either was favoured at the start but later on there was favourites amongst the drivers, it's obvious isn't it? Why would you put the good parts in a car your always know will finish second to the other one? Wouldn't you just upgrade the leading car first? That's what most teams usually do. The sad fact of this reality is that webber was partnered with Seb to late IMO but it is what it is, that's why I can't understand why people believe everything they hear. That's the point of my whole post, is people can show what ever story or article that made them believe something but your not going to believe a word of it if you hear it from some actually involved in the industry are you? That's the point Iam at, I might read something once in a while and go "ahh so that's what the other side is about" and then can take atleast that particular article more serious than just randomly coming across one.

[Sakae 0]

With all due respect to all parties, but I find myself in difficulty to accept Australian community as a sole domain of experts on Vettel's professional life, be it then, or now.

[Emmcee 0]

Don't get me started on 2014 am looking at it right in front of me on paper. So if we're getting technical, let me know as Iam a tad busy ATM but Iam sure most still remember Seb being ahead of Ric in the standings for a few gps before Ricciardo had some luck and found his feet. Also if you want, since everyone around loves dissecting posts, please be my guest and you'll find on more than one occasion I've praised Vettel for quite a few things. Who's talking about vettels personal life? Where that come from?