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Sakae

Bahrain 2021

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This warms my heart... 

http://gptoday.com/full_story/view/764249/Aston_Martin_dismiss_negative_early_perceptions_of_Vettel_after_dismal_debut/

"Suggested to Szafnauer he was already battling against people's perceptions, he replied: "It's very, very early to say that.

"We only have one data point, one race. Yeah, it wasn't the best race but if you look at the positives, he had to start last, he was running in the top 10 for a while, [and he] felt good in the car. Just from watching him from the pit wall, looking at his lap times - and his lap times were not that dissimilar to Lance [Stroll] who has been driving here for a while, knows us well, knows the car well.

"Szafnauer is adamant Vettel "is getting there" given the differences he has been forced to overcome between the Aston Martin and the Ferrari he had become accustomed to. "The car he is driving now is totally different from what he drove before, from car characteristics, powertrain characteristics, a lot of things," added Szafnauer.

"It's really early days. He didn't do a lot of laps in testing, we only had three days and he had to share those days with Lance, and he seemed to have all the problems."

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8 minutes ago, Sakae said:

Of course he didn't. He is just having difficult to adjust his driving style to a new (for him) car. All what I am saying is, that he may or may not get on the top of it. Last year it come to the point when he lost self-confidence. (His words). I am hoping, as his most veracious fan, he will succeed, but I will understand if he dosen't. Realities of life.

+1

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So Seb in 1st racing weekend is almost 1/2 way there to be excluded from a race. (5 points). Maybe he deserves that, maybe not, I am not sure, but I wish the same stewards would pay just as much attention to other drivers, as they do pay to Vettel.

Drivers do not do pre-action analysis in overtaking; they act on instinct. It takes two to tango in such situations, and if a leading car moves into a block, contact may occur. It's called racing. I would like to follow this stew. group little closer. It is not first time they have shown bias against certain drivers in the past, and unjustified leniency towards others. 

In the past Grosjean had similar problem. After he was punished, other drivers have taken lot of liberty with him , because they knew if there is trouble, who will be called into stewards's office, deservedly or not.

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49 minutes ago, Sakae said:

So Seb in 1st racing weekend is almost 1/2 way there to be excluded from a race. (5 points). Maybe he deserves that, maybe not, I am not sure, but I wish the same stewards would pay just as much attention to other drivers, as they do pay to Vettel.

Drivers do not do pre-action analysis in overtaking; they act on instinct. It takes two to tango in such situations, and if a leading car moves into a block, contact may occur. It's called racing. I would like to follow this stew. group little closer. It is not first time they have shown bias against certain drivers in the past, and unjustified leniency towards others. 

In the past Grosjean had similar problem. After he was punished, other drivers have taken lot of liberty with him , because they knew if there is trouble, who will be called into stewards's office, deservedly or not.

I was wondering who the race stewards were this weekend

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American, Englishman, Italian (ex-driver rally), and last one - no idea. I cannot accuse them from anything, but from a different perspective, I am suspicious that based on international politics, this might not be at the end what they seems to be (to be most unbiased body). Their reasoning seems very legalistic, but I cannot detect where concept of racing was covered. I don't trust such reports, which usually do nothing but with many words hiding weakness in reasoning for conclusion rendered.  It was difference between a racing incident and erroneous driving. Just recall when Verstappen entered F1 racing scene, and how many times he just push for impossible overtakes, yet when Vettel tried to avoid him, and there was consequently a contact with someone else, it was always Vettel who got a shaft and blamed for everything. Recall Mexico a few years back, when Whiting got earful for his part in that comedy he directed...and many others. I should be forgiven for having about zero trust in expecting fairness from FiA Stewards. 

I think had to be another driver, Ocon would never shut door, because he would know that Verstappen will bulldozer his way any which way possible at any cost, Hamilton would be untouchable in Steward's office, and so on. Vettel would end up soon as a guy who is not allowed to overtake for fear that there will be a collision. He had told them who he could and couldn't do, but they liked to do some second guessing; maybe from preponderant experience. 

Quote

The policing of track limits at Turn 4 was a hot topic throughout the Bahrain Grand Prix race weekend. But despite some question marks over how certain drivers interpreted the rules, FIA Race Director Michael Masi insisted that his guidance to the teams throughout the weekend had been clear.

Hamilton got away with it. Stewards were busy with Vettel, obviously.

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1 hour ago, Sakae said:

American, Englishman, Italian (ex-driver rally), and last one - no idea. I cannot accuse them from anything, but from a different perspective, I am suspicious that based on international politics, this might not be at the end what they seems to be (to be most unbiased body). Their reasoning seems very legalistic, but I cannot detect where concept of racing was covered. I don't trust such reports, which usually do nothing but with many words hiding weakness in reasoning for conclusion rendered.  It was difference between a racing incident and erroneous driving. Just recall when Verstappen entered F1 racing scene, and how many times he just push for impossible overtakes, yet when Vettel tried to avoid him, and there was consequently a contact with someone else, it was always Vettel who got a shaft and blamed for everything. Recall Mexico a few years back, when Whiting got earful for his part in that comedy he directed...and many others. I should be forgiven for having about zero trust in expecting fairness from FiA Stewards. 

I think had to be another driver, Ocon would never shut door, because he would know that Verstappen will bulldozer his way any which way possible at any cost, Hamilton would be untouchable in Steward's office, and so on. Vettel would end up soon as a guy who is not allowed to overtake for fear that there will be a collision. He had told them who he could and couldn't do, but they liked to do some second guessing; maybe from preponderant experience. 

Thx Sakae

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7 hours ago, blackpebel said:

The incident was not due a sudden loss of downforce,, Twas human error..

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.vettel-says-he-couldnt-avoid-ocon-as-he-apologises-for-hitting-frenchman.3mFCrESxrFTawPsC6i8q7b.html

I guess Seb should be more humble in analyzing these situations, and his own mistakes, before he presses the radio button.

There you go bp. sudden loss of downforce, even the commentators mentioned it. 

"Vettel had pulled back in behind Ocon after being passed under DRS, but the sudden loss of downforce on his front wing caused the front brakes to lock, resulting in contact."

I'm not saying Seb is blameless in this, I'm saying there is a reason why. If it was'nt for the sudden loss of downforce, they both would have made the corner

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Bahrain 2021

Did  Hamilton & Mercedes WIN the Bahrain 2021 GP 
OR
Did Max & Red Bull Honda LOSE the Bahrain 2021 GP  ??
Discuss

Edited by lipstick79

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5 hours ago, Sakae said:

Hamilton got away with it.

Indeed.

I don't Think Max was all too wrong in going a little wide.. Maybe i'm saying that coz I feel bad for him..

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Its very difficult and humbling to see Vettel fans defending his mistakes this hard.. I hope vettel takes a leaf out of that and puts his focus and instincts back in the game.. I would like to see him win atleast one race with AM.. they together have the potential for that..

4 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

There you go bp. sudden loss of downforce, even the commentators mentioned it. 

"Vettel had pulled back in behind Ocon after being passed under DRS, but the sudden loss of downforce on his front wing caused the front brakes to lock, resulting in contact."

I'm not saying Seb is blameless in this, I'm saying there is a reason why. If it was'nt for the sudden loss of downforce, they both would have made the corner

With all due respect brad,, we have had a few years now of these new regulations where drivers are aware and have instinctively built up a feel for the braking zones.. and right behind another car, is NOT one of them..

In This particular case, The sudden loss of Downforce was because he tucked the car in behind Ocon.. He blamed ocon for moving, and then braked wayyyy too late.. The commentators were prompt in stating that 'He braked way too late' was '100% his mistake'.. Unfortunate, but that's that..

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3 hours ago, lipstick79 said:

Bahrain 2021

Did  Hamilton & Mercedes WIN the Bahrain 2021 GP 
OR
Did Max & Red Bull Honda LOSE the Bahrain 2021 GP  ??
Discuss

To the dismay, and anger for many of SLH detractors. He won the Bahrain G.P., even though he wasn't driving the faster car.

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16 minutes ago, Samouri said:

To the dismay, and anger for many of SLH detractors. He won the Bahrain G.P., even though he wasn't driving the faster car.

Hamilton broke rules (track side limits). Repeatedly, until stewards told him to stop it, otherwise they would have to penalised him. So he stopped. (I think it was in Turn 4).

Only his fans believe he has not received a special treatment which is not available to too many drivers. In your face cheating, that's what it was, let's don't mince words. 

There was Mexico several years ago, and many more in the past, yet only some drivers get away with braking rules. Like Leclerc last year when he hit Vettel - oh, it was just racing accident. (The opening lap of the Styrian Grand Prix). I wonder what stewards were smoking before race.

Pity Vettel did not receive similar courtesy this weekend. 

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1 hour ago, Sakae said:

Hamilton broke rules (track side limits)

It is ONLY cheatin IF U get caught, otherwise U R just gettin away with it
Racin incident - Hamilton just racin, and seein WHAT he could get away with
EVERYBODY tries 2 push boundaries, and C what they can get away with
Whether it IS track limits OR forgettin 2 pay the milkman on time - honest MISTAKE (wearin my silky negligee)

Edited by lipstick79

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2 hours ago, Sakae said:

Hamilton broke rules (track side limits). Repeatedly, until stewards told him to stop it, otherwise they would have to penalised him. So he stopped. (I think it was in Turn 4).

Only his fans believe he has not received a special treatment which is not available to too many drivers. In your face cheating, that's what it was, let's don't mince words. 

No surprise that you're quick to condemn and criticize SLH. Soooo...... in that world you live in, only SLH broke repeatedly the track limitation rule at turn 4. But SLH didn't go off the track in order to make a pass at any point, as Verstappen so foolishly did. As Max said, " Throughout the race he was told that people were going wide at turn 4, and so they told me to do the same, because you do gain time by doing it, so I did it."

 

 

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2 hours ago, Samouri said:

No surprise that you're quick to condemn and criticize SLH. Soooo...... in that world you live in, only SLH broke repeatedly the track limitation rule at turn 4. But SLH didn't go off the track in order to make a pass at any point, as Verstappen so foolishly did. As Max said, " Throughout the race he was told that people were going wide at turn 4, and so they told me to do the same, because you do gain time by doing it, so I did it."

No surprises you would say/think/understand/grasp the whole situation from "slh's" angle..

FIRSTLY... Slh,,, didn't really pass ANYONE on the track,.. he gained 1st place because of the undercut.. and then.. gained, and KEPT gaining advantage by repeatedly exploiting an ambiguous rule, that I hope is clarified by the next race we reach...

29 TIMES!!! 29 TIMES!!!

And it was Not EVERYONE, who was exceeding the limits.. it was 1 specific team that was doing it systematically... Did THAT team win the race/end up on podium.. well no guesses there..

Max's confusion with the info that was given to him, also confused half of the fan base watching the damn thing...

Turn 4 was kept away from having a hard underlining rule, because the cars approached the corners at greater speeds and is not always easy to control.. did Lewis go over, 29 times, because he was not able to control the car?? We bloody well know why he did it.. let's admit it.. he gained an advantage over there, and it was not all fair..

To answer @lipstick79's question.. in my opinion.. It was Max and Redbull that lost the race... till lap 45 Lewis didn't seem to have a chance of ending on top..

After max gave back the position.. Merc seemed to suddenly turn up the engine somehow.. he has been really lucky over the last 7 years with that Merc PU behind him...

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10 hours ago, Samouri said:

No surprise that you're quick to condemn and criticize SLH. Soooo...... in that world you live in, only SLH broke repeatedly the track limitation rule at turn 4. But SLH didn't go off the track in order to make a pass at any point, as Verstappen so foolishly did. As Max said, " Throughout the race he was told that people were going wide at turn 4, and so they told me to do the same, because you do gain time by doing it, so I did it."

Hamilton wasn't the only one who broke rules, so much is true, however my point was a different one, namely, leniency of FiA towards certain drivers, and opposite attitude towards others. I, as a poster, am not in the middle of that mess, FiA is. Whether he gained anything from braking rules is irrelevant. Drivers were warned not to go beyond limits, Hamilton ignored it, and got away with it. FiA went even so far, after Hamilton was (alledgedly) reported by RBR, made a friendly call to MB/Hamilton...  Then he and other drivers obeyed.

The incident is one of many indefensible, and reprehensible, regardless how hard you try to put pretty face on it.

As stated previously, this is not first time FiA acted that way. They were very harsh on Vettel this time around after accident  with Ocon, it could have been logged as a racing accident, yet when Leclerc went crazy and out of control in Austria, nothing happened. In fact some commentators were quite hard looking to hang outcome of that move on Vettel.

Balanced F1 is not. 

I should not be surprised that fans of Hamilton will find fault anyone who dares just to point out he has done wrong. 

In contrast, it is true I defend Vettel quite often, trying to clarify (perhaps for my own consumption) cause&effect, but what is wrong with that? That's what fans do. I don't see wrong side of it, whether someone likes it, or not. Many are just happy to deal with effect side (like Multi 21). I am not in that group, obviously.

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15 hours ago, Sakae said:

Hamilton broke rules (track side limits). Repeatedly, until stewards told him to stop it, otherwise they would have to penalised him. So he stopped. (I think it was in Turn 4).

Only his fans believe he has not received a special treatment which is not available to too many drivers. In your face cheating, that's what it was, let's don't mince words. 

There was Mexico several years ago, and many more in the past, yet only some drivers get away with braking rules. Like Leclerc last year when he hit Vettel - oh, it was just racing accident. (The opening lap of the Styrian Grand Prix). I wonder what stewards were smoking before race.

Pity Vettel did not receive similar courtesy this weekend. 

Right you are. To top it off, he took them both out.

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2 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Right you are. To top it off, he took them both out.

Uneven treatment of drivers in the sport is an old issue. Numerous cases of it are available.

Quote

Stroll still ‘surprised’ Leclerc wasn’t penalised for Sochi incident, after Hamilton-Albon clash in Austria

 

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8 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

It was always his best trait to keep driver's behind him when he's leading in close battle.

That JUST described SV in his Red Bull Glory years

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Agree with Norris on the fact that Max deserved to keep his lead.. he had already overtaken Lewis before the corner.. FIA is under the radar next time around to manage the 'going over the limit' rule clearly.

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2 hours ago, blackpebel said:

Agree with Norris on the fact that Max deserved to keep his lead.. he had already overtaken Lewis before the corner.. FIA is under the radar next time around to manage the 'going over the limit' rule clearly.

They are out for Vettel too

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