Williams Restructures Management

[Senna 0]

2003 and they were not a top team?

[Kay 0]

I am beginning to understand why bajo dislikes you

[Fed up 0]

I was simply saying that you cannot say the car is crap and then say the drivers are crap too because they can't get good results.

If it is the car it is the car, no matter what driver drives it, then its the car that needs improving and I believe that they can improve. It may take awhile but they won't be on the pace they are on now for much too longer.

I'm with you on this point as the statement appears contradictory

[Senna 0]

I was simply saying that you cannot say the car is crap and then say the drivers are crap too because they can't get good results.

If it is the car it is the car, no matter what driver drives it, then its the car that needs improving and I believe that they can improve. It may take awhile but they won't be on the pace they are on now for much too longer.

I'm with you on this point as the statement appears contradictory

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I

[Fed up 0]

I'm with you on this point as the statement appears contradictory

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I

[bajo39 0]

I am beginning to understand why bajo dislikes you

[Fed up 0]

The lack of basic logic is anything but peculair to Kay and after several months on this forum, I think I have built up quite a tolerance to it. What is uniquely frustrating about dealing with her, is the frequency with which she alters her argument. You start off debating A and B, and then when A proves illogical, she moves on to C and then D and so on... and ultimately back to A. No matter how intelligent your comments, or how foolish hers, you can never really make any progress towards a consensus.

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I see where you're all coming from but I dont think there is any need in being confrontational and outright rude on subjective issues.

Life is too short to take issue with another person's opinions simply because they disagree/difer from your own.

Take it in your stride and move on and show common courtesy to a lady.

Dont mean to lecture I just want a happy environment/forum

[Kay 0]

The lack of basic logic is anything but peculair to Kay and after several months on this forum, I think I have built up quite a tolerance to it. What is uniquely frustrating about dealing with her, is the frequency with which she alters her argument. You start off debating A and B, and then when A proves illogical, she moves on to C and then D and so on... and ultimately back to A. No matter how intelligent your comments, or how foolish hers, you can never really make any progress towards a consensus.

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Well done you managed to take another topic completely off topic.

[bajo39 0]

Well done you managed to take another topic completely off topic.

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It followed from what Senna was talking about... Anyway, I apoligize again for being sexist.

[Kay 0]

Why can't you just ignore me if you do not like me?

I think you look down on others way too much, but I just ignore it but yet again you take another topic off topic and I have stopped doing so why can't you? Please if you want to bash away at me make a thread to do it in. But everyone here is more than aware of how you feel about me. I don't have problems with anyone and I've got to know about 200-300 F1 posters, so of course there will always be one or two, but be mature enough to keep it to yourself or at least not spread it over many topics

Trying to win an argument with 'you are illogical' is getting tiring, no one else apart from you and Senna on occasion thinks that and I doubt anyone else wants to hear it. So please contain yourself or do it elsewhere.

[Kay 0]

Either way what I am trying to get across here is that I think Williams WILL improve over the season, I have in no way intended to imply they will win the WCC because that is quite stupid to predict at this point in time.

Also that you can not say the William's drivers have not delivered good results, therefore they are not good drivers, when you make it clear you think the car is crap.

[bajo39 0]

Either way what I am trying to get across here is that I think Williams WILL improve over the season, I have in no way intended to imply they will win the WCC because that is quite stupid to predict at this point in time.

Also that you can not say the William's drivers have not delivered good results, therefore they are not good drivers, when you make it clear you think the car is crap.

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The argument I higlighted was one that you were directing at Senna, not me. I just jumped in to criticize you because I am a male chauvinist and I apoligized for this anyway.

[Kay 0]

I know it was directed at Senna, I am trying to make him understand that it doesn't necassarily fit and its not an illogical point to make, but what he is saying is unclear. Senna says Williams make poor driver decisions yet, he says the car is far from good, yet both drivers have looked to get a podium. Webber then Nick due to his retirement.

[bajo39 0]

I know it was directed at Senna, I am trying to make him understand that it doesn't necassarily fit and its not an illogical point to make, but what he is saying is unclear. Senna says Williams make poor driver decisions yet, he says the car is far from good, yet both drivers have looked to get a podium. Webber then Nick due to his retirement.

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Really? Senna has previosuly said that he feels Nick and Mark are performing equally...

The car is apparently lacking downforce and difficult to handle. Over one lap you can really push it and do well, as Webber has so expertly done, but over a race distance it is very difficult to maintain that commitment without making mistakes. IMO Webber and Heidfeld have done a good job under trying circumstances.

[Senna 0]

Really? Senna has previosuly said that he feels Nick and Mark are performing equally...

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Indeed I did. Kay_zee is misrepresenting my argument and has changed her opinion more times than I care to remember.

[Kay 0]

Indeed I did.  Kay_zee is misrepresenting my argument and has changed her opinion more times than I care to remember.

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No my opinion has always stayed the same, just you have read more into it then it was.

I said Williams would return to the front, ie improve, if they are mid-field and improve then they become at the front that is logic.

My arguments never change, however I change the way in which I say it to try and find a perspective that you can understand as clearly you misread things from certain perspectives.

BTW I never said you didn't say they were equal. I just said you can not blame them for not winning / coming second when they haven't had the car to win with as you say. A podium in a car which you both say is mid-field is a good achievement not a poor one.

I am disappointed that you resort to personal remarks again, instead of dealing with the discussion at hand, making the topic go off topic. It seems ok for you to do this, but when I do I get it in the neck.

[Kay 0]

Really? Senna has previosuly said that he feels Nick and Mark are performing equally...

The car is apparently lacking downforce and difficult to handle. Over one lap you can really push it and do well, as Webber has so expertly done, but over a race distance it is very difficult to maintain that commitment without making mistakes. IMO Webber and Heidfeld have done a good job under trying circumstances.

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They have done a good job, and Nick has surprised me so far this year.

[Senna 0]

No my opinion has always stayed the same, just you have read more into it then it was.

I said Williams would return to the front, ie improve, if they are mid-field and improve then they become at the front that is logic.

My arguments never change, however I change the way in which I say it to try and find a perspective that you can understand as clearly you misread things from certain perspectives.

BTW I never said you didn't say they were equal. I just said you can not blame them for not winning / coming second when they haven't had the car to win with as you say. A podium in a car which you both say is mid-field is a good achievement not a poor one.

I am disappointed that you resort to personal remarks again, instead of dealing with the discussion at hand, making the topic go off topic. It seems ok for you to do this, but when I do I get it in the neck.

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I now fully understand and concur with bajo

[bajo39 0]

I now fully understand and concur with bajo

[Kaciaj 0]

Interesting...I think too the car might be lacking downforce,expecially since I've seen them performing well in hot races like Sepang and Bahrain and not as well in Imola....their engine is ok...I think they're going to be at the front by mid-season,as they do every year

[Kay 0]

I now fully understand and concur with bajo

[Kay 0]

I find it funny that you two are the only people that have a problem with me and you are both two people with big egos. If I misread your comments then I apologise but you did also of mine.

[Senna 0]

I have not insulted you. I have just stated facts.

[Kay 0]

I have not insulted you.  I have just stated facts.

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No as you critise me but have nowhere backed your statements up. Where have I changed my opinion?

And remember the way in which I wrote it can easily be different to the way you read it as you obviously assume my perspectives before reading my comments.

[bajo39 0]

No as you critise me but have nowhere backed your statements up. Where have I changed my opinion?

And remember the way in which I wrote it can easily be different to the way you read it as you obviously assume my perspectives before reading my comments.

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Senna is clearly a sexist!