Teammate Wars: British Gp

[Senna 0]

JV has outqualified Massa two out of the last three races.  Qualifying is an excellent example of getting the most out of the car.

His finishing position during the races shows he is not getting the most out of himself.

Understand

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Qualifying performances are dependent on fuel loads and the running order. Qualifying is no longer a genuine reflection of real pace. Race performance is paramount and JV has been quite unimpressive in this regard as of late. In the last race he managed to run over someone

[YHR 0]

You just dont give up do you. You are the worst kind of fan, BLIND!!

I think you have very good knowledge of F1 but your obsession with JV is now bordering on the ridiculous.

Give it a rest mate, please...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok now I am confused.

I acknowledge JV is not getting the most out of himself, give an example of how he has got the most out of the car by outqualifying Massa two out of three times and then get a response like this!!!!!.

Someone else want to comment on this, because I truly don't understand Fed-ups comments to my remarks.

Just to recap

I stated that JV has outqualified Massa two out of the last three races(True statement)

JV is not getting the most out of himself,i.e he is making mistakes(Another true statement).

Then I get accused of being blind!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Senna 0]

Ok now I am confused.

I acknowledge JV is not getting the most out of himself, give an example of how he has got the most out of the car by outqualifying Massa two out of three times and then get a response like this!!!!!.

Someone else want to comment on this, because I truly don't understand Fed-ups comments to my remarks.

Just to recap

I stated that JV has outqualified Massa two out of the last three races(True statement)

JV is not getting the most out of himself,i.e he is making mistakes(Another true statement).

Then I get accused of being blind!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

YHR,

[YHR 0]

[quote name='Senna' date='Jul 15 2005, 04:22 PM']YHR,

[Fed up 0]

Ok now I am confused.

I acknowledge JV is not getting the most out of himself, give an example of how he has got the most out of the car by outqualifying Massa two out of three times and then get a response like this!!!!!.

Someone else want to comment on this, because I truly don't understand Fed-ups comments to my remarks.

Just to recap

I stated that JV has outqualified Massa two out of the last three races(True statement)

JV is not getting the most out of himself,i.e he is making mistakes(Another true statement).

Then I get accused of being blind!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As you well know qualifying is like a lottery now because of the different fuel loads and strategies. The only only true measure of speed is when a driver makes his first pit stop which gives an indication of the amount of fuel that was on board during the qualifying lap compared to the other drivers. JT, for example, is very fast in qualifying trim but positvely slow in race trim.

That said, F1 is a race to the chequered flag so the ultimate measure of pace is the respective finishing postions of the drivers, as this will reflect both qualifying performance and actual race pace(notwithstanding crashes and bodged pit stops)

So your argument that JV blitzed Massa in qualifying is flawed if his ultimate race pace is slower than FM's

[Senna 0]

As you well know qualifying is like a lottery now because of the different fuel loads and strategies. The only only true measure of speed is when a driver makes his first pit stop which gives an indication of the amount of fuel that was on board during the qualifying lap compared to the other drivers. JT, for example, is very fast in qualifying trim but positvely slow in race trim.

That said, F1 is a race to the chequered flag so the ultimate measure of pace is the respective finishing postions of the drivers, as this will reflect both qualifying performance and actual race pace(notwithstanding crashes and bodged pit stops)

So your argument that JV blitzed Massa in qualifying is flawed if his ultimate race pace is slower than FM's

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed as this is basically what I said above.

[bajo39 0]

Q: What do you think of Juan's overall performance?

Whitmarsh: "Juan settled down into a great race. Early on he was slightly overdriving, and the car looked a bit loose as a consequence. But he figured that for himself and decided that he had to look after his tyres, and his rear tyres in particular. From a few laps into the race he was completely mature, completely smooth, did exactly what he had to do.

Q: What do you think of Kimi's race?

Whitmarsh: "The last two races by the time Kimi has got to clear air he's typically been half a minute behind, and he's then has to play catch up. I don't think there's anyone doubting that for the last eight races, Kimi has been the fastest package out there. I think Juan Pablo did all he had to do and did a great drive, but Kimi has been so blisteringly quick at all points, and I think everyone sees that. He's got the right balance of speed and aggression that you need to have to go out and get the job done.

Its quite obvious who McClaren favour in the team

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think you have provided a basis in the above quote for your conclusion but, setting that aside, would McLaren be wrong to favour the superior Finn? Is it wrong to allocate resources were they are best used? I'm not suggesting they have been, just pointing out how illogical your implied position is.

[Fed up 0]

Would McLaren be wrong to favour their better driver?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it is too early in the relationship for McClaren to be taking sides.

[Senna 0]

I think it is too early in the relationship for McClaren to be taking sides.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even if one driver is clearly better than the other? To focus their combined energies on Kimi would be to do what Ferrari has done for Michael, was the Italian team wrong (from a performance sense) to adopt that approach?

[bajo39 0]

Even if one driver is clearly better than the other?  To focus their combined energies on Kimi would be to do what Ferrari has done for Michael, was the Italian team wrong (from a performance sense) to adopt that approach?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Senna: Of course not!

Fed up: It is abundantly clear to me, and indeed most of the forum and beyond this, the F1 world at large, that the Finn is far superior to his Columbian teammate. Do you dispute this? If not, why do say it is too early for McLaren to make a determination as to who is most worthy of their attention?

[Fed up 0]

Even if one driver is clearly better than the other?  To focus their combined energies on Kimi would be to do what Ferrari has done for Michael, was the Italian team wrong (from a performance sense) to adopt that approach?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Senna you need to read those two statements by Martin Whitmarsh and apply a bit of lateral thinking. There are reasons why he is saying these things, such as;

"I think Juan Pablo did all he had to do and did a great drive, but Kimi has been so blisteringly quick at all points, and I think everyone sees that"

F1 drivers have huge egos the above comment, in light of JPM's straight victory over FA, is incredible. This is very unprofessional of Martin.

Being one for conspiracy theories, I think McClaren are sending out feelers to ferrari so as to ward off attention on Kimi.

[bajo39 0]

Being one for conspiracy theories, I think McClaren are sending out feelers to ferrari so as to ward off attention on Kimi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Double post.

[bajo39 0]

Being one for conspiracy theories, I think McClaren are sending out feelers to ferrari so as to ward off attention on Kimi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you fill the forum in on your theory, as alluded to above?

[Senna 0]

Senna you need to read those two statements by Martin Whitmarsh and apply a bit of lateral thinking. There are reasons why he is saying these things, such as;

"I think Juan Pablo did all he had to do and did a great drive, but Kimi has been so blisteringly quick at all points, and I think everyone sees that"

F1 drivers have huge egos the above comment, in light of JPM's straight victory over FA, is incredible. This is very unprofessional of Martin.

Being one for conspiracy theories, I think McClaren are sending out feelers to ferrari so as to ward off attention on Kimi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe JPM wasn

[Fed up 0]

Can you fill me in on your theory, as alluded to above?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok its a long shot, but here's how I see it.

McClaren, through their experienced MD, make the above two statements as regards to the relative performance of their two drivers.

Ferrari are known to harbour an interest in Kimi whose contract is due to expire in 2006, the same time as MS. By showing that they may not be overly keen on JPM this could divert Ferrari's attention into signing the Columbian.

Its obviously a long shot but I cant get my head around MW two statements. If BAR/Renault do not make such comments. Can you imagine Ron Dennis saying something similar about Senna/Prost or Williams about Piquet/Mansell

[cavallino 2]

just like MS and RB, due to the incompetence of the second driver team orders come down to using them 1-2 times a season, for mclaren and ferrari. mclaren were smart in using theirs, and the english media love them anyway so they got away, when ferrari used them when they were legal, there was huge hue and cry.

[Senna 0]

Ok its a long shot, but here's how I see it.

McClaren, through their experienced MD, make the above two statements as regards to the relative performance of their two drivers.

Ferrari are known to harbour an interest in Kimi whose contract is due to expire in 2006, the same time as MS. By showing that they may not be overly keen on JPM this could divert Ferrari's attention into signing the Columbian.

Its obviously a long shot but I cant get my head around MW two statements. If BAR/Renault do not make such comments. Can you imagine Ron Dennis saying something similar about Senna/Prost or Williams about Piquet/Mansell

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don

[bajo39 0]

Ok its a long shot, but here's how I see it.

McClaren, through their experienced MD, make the above two statements as regards to the relative performance of their two drivers.

Ferrari are known to harbour an interest in Kimi whose contract is due to expire in 2006, the same time as MS. By showing that they may not be overly keen on JPM this could divert Ferrari's attention into signing the Columbian.

Its obviously a long shot but I cant get my head around MW two statements. If BAR/Renault do not make such comments. Can you imagine Ron Dennis saying something similar about Senna/Prost or Williams about Piquet/Mansell

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting... I can't see Ferrari signing the Columbian as even a replacement for Rubens Barrichello though. He would be too dangerous to their number one driver and as a result, a detriment to their pursuit of both championships.

[cavallino 2]

Ferrari dont want JPM. there havent even been rumours of them signing JPM.

[Senna 0]

Interesting... I can't see Ferrari signing the Columbian as even a replacement for Rubens Barrichello though. He would be too dangerous to their number one driver and as a result, a detriment to their pursuit of both championships.

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Yes, I don

[Senna 0]

Ferrari dont want JPM. there havent even been rumours of them signing JPM.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know.

[bajo39 0]

Ferrari wasn

[Fed up 0]

All of this is quite right. On the last point, I think Ferrari will be more likely to take Massa, although I suspect he is the lesser talent of the two, for two reasons:

1) Button is said to be entertaining salary offers which are beyond reason. Ferrari may be able to lure him with the promise of championship glory but I doubt it will make up more than a small gap in compensation despite the Briton's assurances to the contrary.

2) Massa has a historical and current connection to the team.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Point taken...

Thinking laterally and based on your vast experience of F1 what do you think MW is trying to achieve by making the above comments in the same interview.

[bajo39 0]

Point taken...

Thinking laterally and based on your vast experience of F1 what do you think MW is trying to achieve by making the above comments in the same interview.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you are reading too deeply into these quotes...

[Senna 0]

All of this is quite right. On the last point, I think Ferrari will be more likely to take Massa, although I suspect he is the lesser talent of the two, for two reasons:

1) Button is said to be entertaining salary offers which are beyond reason. Ferrari may be able to lure him with the promise of championship glory but I doubt it will make up more than a small gap in compensation despite the Briton's assurances to the contrary.

2) Massa has a historical and current connection to the team.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As you well know Bajo, Ferrari has the money if they deem the talent is worthy of such a salary