Sauber Steadily Improving

[monza gorilla 1]

You couldn't have put it any better. Spot on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't agree more.

[Fed up 0]

1.  Fair enough, a leopard can't change its spots.  I just mentioned you may want to look at the reason for your post.  If you throw sand in someones face there is going to be a reaction. 

2. I think in sport, this is fairly common from fans.  I am not sure why it would bother you so much to let the JV fans do what they like do to do best.  I mean "What ifs'" are clearly subjective view points discussed to turn a silk purse out of a sows ear.  Some of these remarks are enlightening and really point to areas that need improvement.  I would really much sooner be talking about a silk purse, but all I have been given is a sows ear.

JV has fans, you might as well get used to it.  IMO a good fan is a guy who stands behind his driver through good times and bad, and it appears as if JV has some loyal fans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At last, the voice of reason

[YHR 0]

At last, the voice of reason

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, I am always reasonable, but am a loyal fan of JV and take a lot of flak over it. Some people seem to take issue with that. I am not sure why?

[Senna 0]

Actually, I am always reasonable, but am a loyal fan of JV and take a lot of flak over it.  Some people seem to take issue with that.  I am not sure why?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[CC 0]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1628

[Senna 0]

1628

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Was that the last time JV won a race?

[CC 0]

Was that the last time JV won a race?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, his last win was at the N

[Senna 0]

No, his last win was at the N

[YHR 0]

It was indeed a joke CC and compared with me you are an insignificant worm. I am your God.  Bow down before me and beg for forgiveness

[Senna 0]

And I'm accused of making outlandish claims.

Which you undeniably do!

For the record.  You just insulted a forum member by calling him an insignifiant worm. 

Also feelings of being a God are considered serious signs of mental illness.  You may want ot get that checked out (Just joking) 

As was I, although there was more than an element of truth in my words!

Anyway nothing to debate just observations about your post.

Cheers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cheers, although this whole exercise was rather pointless

[CC 0]

As was I, although there was more than an element of truth in my words!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Max Mosley 2]

1.  Fair enough, a leopard can't change its spots.  I just mentioned you may want to look at the reason for your post.  If you throw sand in someones face there is going to be a reaction. 

2. I think in sport, this is fairly common from fans.  I am not sure why it would bother you so much to let the JV fans do what they like do to do best.  I mean "What ifs'" are clearly subjective view points discussed to turn a silk purse out of a sows ear.  Some of these remarks are enlightening and really point to areas that need improvement.  I would really much sooner be talking about a silk purse, but all I have been given is a sows ear.

JV has fans, you might as well get used to it.  IMO a good fan is a guy who stands behind his driver through good times and bad, and it appears as if JV has some loyal fans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can see I'm not going to change your opinion on this so I'll move on to something else after this.

I really think the reaction from the JV fan(atics) has been over the top here. You are entitled to make hypothetical points but we are entitled to say they are daft, in our opinions, without being insulted personally as I (and now Senna) have been by people who are "frustrated" by our opinions and knowledge.

I have no problem with hypothetical remarks and day-dreaming as long as you also talk about the reality today. I think the JV fan(atics) and the Sato fans are the worst at failing to do this and so I will continue to remind you when you start threads like this.

When I support drivers I try to be objective even when the reality disappoints me so I will always criticise extreme bias in all its evil forms. Finally I think your posts are marginally more reasonable than they were so keep up the better work!

[ellswrth 0]

Points-wise Jacques might beet Massa. However if that does indeed happen, expect the two aforementioned ordinary individuals to twist and turn their 'opinions' and only show the stats which will suit them and not show the full picture. They have been this for a long time now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting article on the Credit Suisse website interviewing someone who actually knows something about JV's contributions to Sauber (unlike the "aforementioned ordinary individuals", and to the point of the thread.

Interview With JV's Race Engineer

Among the quotes from the article are some answers to what the Sauber team actually think ...

"With [JV] there are a few fixed settings which you mustn't change, regardless of whether he's driving in Monaco or Monza. That was something totally new for me, but it seems to work: we're getting faster from race to race."

"Generally speaking, this concept [add a new part which produced good results based on the simulation and our experience] works well as long as the driver feels comfortable. But if the system becomes so complex or unpredictable for the driver that he no longer has confidence in the car, then it's time to rethink the concept. And that's precisely what happened to some extent with Jacques."

"In other words, the team learned something from Jacques, too, and not just the other way round?

Yes, and that's how it should be. If you have a driver like Villeneuve, who has been driving Formula One for ten years, and you try to teach him everything, you haven't understood your job."

Interesting reading - seems the Sauber team think JV is definitely a factor in their improvement. And their opinion is based on fact and knowledge.

[nojvnof1 0]

very interesting article. To add to that, JV was very influential in the development of new TC software and the front wing he used in a few races early in the year.

Thank you for posting that ellswrth, although I hardly see it as effecting the mindset of the doubters, if it's not what they want to hear, they just ignore it and pretend nothing was said.

[CC 0]

Interesting article on the Credit Suisse website interviewing someone who actually knows something about JV's contributions to Sauber (unlike the "aforementioned ordinary individuals", and to the point of the thread.

Interview With JV's Race Engineer

Among the quotes from the article are some answers to what the Sauber team actually think  ...

"With [JV] there are a few fixed settings which you mustn't change, regardless of whether he's driving in Monaco or Monza. That was something totally new for me, but it seems to work: we're getting faster from race to race."

"Generally speaking, this concept [add a new part which produced good results based on the simulation and our experience] works well as long as the driver feels comfortable. But if the system becomes so complex or unpredictable for the driver that he no longer has confidence in the car, then it's time to rethink the concept. And that's precisely what happened to some extent with Jacques."

"In other words, the team learned something from Jacques, too, and not just the other way round?

Yes, and that's how it should be. If you have a driver like Villeneuve, who has been driving Formula One for ten years, and you try to teach him everything, you haven't understood your job."

Interesting reading - seems the Sauber team think JV is definitely a factor in their improvement. And their opinion is based on fact and knowledge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very good post sir and a very interesting article within;

"Giampaolo Dall'Ara: Working with Jacques is no more difficult than working with any other driver I've encountered in the past. Of course he's a special kind of person but I like him very much. I haven't had a single problem with him at the personal level. He's very sincere and says exactly what he thinks. I'm like that myself."

That seems up what Jacques is all about and why he attracts so many fans world-wide. He speaks his mind and does not care what the consequences are, sometimes that can play to his disadvantage however I would not that to change.

It's very interesting to read what his setups are from race-to-race. Jacques (from the article) has a lot of default settings, which sometimes helps him but also will hinder him from time-to-time.

"Felipe is much more aggressive than Jacques. Jacques is a gentler driver. Felipe tends to brake on the straight when approaching both fast and slow curves and only turns when he's finished braking. He then puts his foot right down on the accelerator to speed up out of the curve. Jacques, on the other hand, brakes more gently and begins turning while he's braking. So he enters the curve faster, but exits it more gently."

Exactly what I thought and it explains why Jacques is (when he races instead of thinking he is playing GTA) is faster than Massa in the latter stages of the race. The Tyre rule and the subsequent degradation of them have really worked into Jacques hands this year.

It

[nojvnof1 0]

"That seems up what Jacques is all about and why he attracts so many fans world-wide. He speaks his mind and does not care what the consequences are, sometimes that can play to his disadvantage however I would not that to change"

very well said. Sometimes he's too honest for his own good, but I'd prefer that than someone who has no personality and is just a robot.

[Max Mosley 2]

very interesting article. To add to that, JV was very influential in the development of new TC software and the front wing he used in a few races early in the year.

Thank you for posting that ellswrth, although I hardly see it as effecting the mindset of the doubters, if it's not what they want to hear, they just ignore it and pretend nothing was said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I trust you are not talking about me here? If you are though you should read my first post on the topic.

[nojvnof1 0]

No I wasn't referring to you.

[Fed up 0]

"Felipe is much more aggressive than Jacques. Jacques is a gentler driver. Felipe tends to brake on the straight when approaching both fast and slow curves and only turns when he's finished braking. He then puts his foot right down on the accelerator to speed up out of the curve. Jacques, on the other hand, brakes more gently and begins turning while he's braking. So he enters the curve faster, but exits it more gently."

Now that is interesting

[nojvnof1 0]

indeed it is. That situation which Dall'Ara explained was part of the problem JV was facing earlier on in the year with the electronics in the braking system. They respond, and work much better with Felipe's style than Jacques, so Jacques has had to adapt.

[YHR 0]

very interesting article. To add to that, JV was very influential in the development of new TC software and the front wing he used in a few races early in the year.

Thank you for posting that ellswrth, although I hardly see it as effecting the mindset of the doubters, if it's not what they want to hear, they just ignore it and pretend nothing was said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice to see the truth. Too many people around here listen to washed up sportscasters to formulate their opinion about someone. Some ITV pinhead will spout off about someone and suddenly people come on here quoting the guy as if he is some learned insider to the sport.

Everything coming out of the Sauber camp is positive. Both drivers are working well together, the car is getting faster. Again I personally hope they keep Massa and Villeneuve together. JV has a contract and I hope Massa sees the potential offered by BMW/Sauber

[YHR 0]

Finally I think your posts are marginally more reasonable than they were so keep up the better work!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is good. As long as I don't get worked up over the rhetoric Senna throws around, I'm fine

You at least seem open minded wth only a tilted bias against JV that sometimes you find hard to control. Thats fair.

[Fed up 0]

Nice to see the truth.  Too many people around here listen to washed up sportscasters to formulate their opinion about someone.  Some ITV pinhead will spout off about someone and suddenly people come on here quoting the guy as if he is some learned insider to the sport.

Everything coming out of the Sauber camp is positive.  Both drivers are working well together, the car is getting faster.  Again I personally hope they keep Massa and Villeneuve together.  JV has a contract and I hope Massa sees the potential offered by BMW/Sauber

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Once again you are being unfair YHR- As one who has questioned JV's ability, I will not rise to your bait. You even started your own thread in which you threatened to walk away from this forum because of attacks on you regarding JV.

Stop fanning the flames

[CC 0]

Once again you are being unfair YHR- As one who has questioned JV's ability, I will not rise to your bait. You even started your own thread in which you threatened to walk away from this forum because of attacks on you regarding JV.

Stop fanning the flames

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

His first Paragraph was debatable; the second was bang on the money.

[YHR 0]

Once again you are being unfair YHR- As one who has questioned JV's ability, I will not rise to your bait. You even started your own thread in which you threatened to walk away from this forum because of attacks on you regarding JV.

Stop fanning the flames

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not sure why you made this statement, and I have no idea to what you refer to as "bait".

My rant to leave was brought on by personal attacks, mis quotes and petty arguing over JV. I pointed out his flaws and made no excuses for his performance and I was still slammed. At that point it seemed ridiculous to continue posting here. Since that time I have heeded the advice of others that PM'd me, and have found it much more civil.

Seriously fed up, I have no idea what flames I am fanning. My opinion is that the ITV race broadcasters are so bias towards the British Drivers, it is very hard to listen to. ITV is a British broadcast so they are playing to the homers. Fine, but please realize the bias that this broadcast inherently has to someone outside of Britian. To watch the broadcast and then hear the same thing regurgetated here, as fact ,is a little too much sometime.

If that offends you in some way I am sorry.