Fastest Laps : Spa

[cavallino 2]

2005 Belgian Grand Prix

Pos No Driver Team Lap Time Of Day Average Speed Time

1 17 Ralf Schumacher Toyota 43 15:33:37 225.329 1:51.453

2 7 Mark Webber Williams-BMW 44 15:35:10 223.655 1:52.287

3 15 Christian Klien Red Bull Racing 43 15:34:15 223.069 1:52.582

4 2 Rubens Barrichello Ferrari 44 15:35:19 223.053 1:52.590

5 3 Jenson Button BAR-Honda 44 15:34:33 221.610 1:53.323

6 9 Kimi R

[cavallino 2]

just shows you why people were willing to gamble on dry tyres.

[nojvnof1 0]

indeed. Great lap from Jacques though, on inters!!! He would have been ahead of Massa anyways, by about .9 of a second as I compared their laps up until Massa switched to slicks, and JV was way ahead!

[Jem of the Shire 0]

JV my arse! Great lap from Klien!

[nojvnof1 0]

Klein did great, did he put slicks on at the end of the race? Oh, JV's lap was very good

[Jem of the Shire 0]

It may have been - but no-one else noticed at the time!

[Senna 0]

just shows you why people were willing to gamble on dry tyres.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but it didn

[Buttonfan 0]

Im shocked how NK had a faster lap than Alonso and JPM. Good for Klein to show why he deserves the second seat at Red Bull with the third best of fastest laps

[Senna 0]

Im shocked how NK had a faster lap than Alonso and JPM. Good for Klein to show why he deserves the second seat at Red Bull with the third best of fastest laps

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He just went for an aggressive and risky tyre option. He set a fast lap but finished way behind his team-mate Tiago Monterio.

[Buttonfan 0]

I know, NK was out for speed and TM was out doing his norm

[Senna 0]

I know, NK was out for speed and TM was out doing his norm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tiago finished yet again and this time he finished in the points. He did much better than Narain and the forum should be wholly aware of this fact.

[Buttonfan 0]

and he beat other god cars that were 1 lap down as he was

[funkejay 0]

Tiago finished yet again and this time he finished in the points.

[cavallino 2]

they were on drys, I doubt a jordan could go that fast on inters anyway.

NK wasnt the only driver to gamble on drys. ironically it was probably him who was going for the points with monteiro just happy with a finish. but with sato's antics and the fact that monteiro knocked out Trulli by doing a sato who would surely have taken monteiro's point otherwise, he got a point.

so what at first blush might look impressive, may be the result of vastly different equipment, and therefore be very misleading as well. I will see what I can find........

I already said that FJ, the point I was making was if the gamble on dry tyres had paid off the very drivers who lost out would probably be well in the points. I remember reading that because tyres have to last the entire race the teams end up coming with a very hard tyre, so you end up in a situation where the inter's are overheating and blistering while the drys do not have enough grip on track, which was what happened in spa. if we have a one tyre rule it should apply to all kinds of tyres. only one inter, one wet and one dry set per driver per race, use them as you want.

[funkejay 0]

I already said that FJ, the point I was making was if the gamble on dry tyres had paid off the very drivers who lost out would probably be well in the points. I remember reading that because tyres have to last the entire race the teams end up coming with a very hard tyre, so you end up in a situation where the inter's are overheating and blistering while the drys do not have enough grip on track, which was what happened in spa. if we have a one tyre rule it should apply to all kinds of tyres. only one inter, one wet and one dry set per driver per race, use them as you want.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The problem with that Cavallino, is that you would then have a very very very dangerous situation, with tires that would be wholly unsuitable to keeping a 900+bhp race car on a circuit with extremely low grip.

Wets and inters (like 'slicks') develop heat from the action of the 'rubber' moving around (being deformed) as it comes into contact with the track surface. The less movement there is (as with a harder tyre), the greater the durability of the tyre, but also the less heat that is developed. That is particularly problematic when dealing with wet conditions, as the moisture on track naturally works to cool the tyres. With less heat comes less grip, resulting in the dangerous situation I described above. As a result, in order to get a sufficient (useable) amount of grip in wet conditions, the tyres must be soft enough to move around (deform) and generate sufficient heat. Unfortunately, that softness makes the wets and inters wear much faster, and therefore completely incapable of lasting a race distance, even in most wet conditions. And, on a drying and/or changeable track, there is simply no hope of that tyre lasting an entire race.

So it is not simply a matter of the FIA imposing inconsistent rules, but rather it reflects the inherent limits of the mechanics and chemistry of modern F1 tyre construction, that reduce the durability of wets and inters, and make it necessary to allow the teams to change them without artificial restrictions imposed by the FIA.

[funkejay 0]

they were on drys, I doubt a jordan could go that fast on inters anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All of which serves to make JV's lap times all the more impressive, as they WERE set on inters in an otherwise uncompetitive Sauber.

[cavallino 2]

agree on JV's laptime.

as for the tyres, I have consistently opposed the one tyre rule. It has led to dangerous situations with the two mclaren drivers when they were driving around the track putting their own and the lives of other drivers in danger, Montoya in Monza and Kimi in an earlier race.

Unfortunately, that softness makes the wets and inters wear much faster, and therefore completely incapable of lasting a race distance, even in most wet conditions.

well there are plenty of tyres on road cars that can grip in the rain and last thousands of kilometres. forcing tyres to last a whole race under any conditions will make them simply drive slower in the adverse conditions. The tyre companies can surely make wet / intermediate tyres that last a whole race even if they will be slower than the present tyres. Otherwise I find it inconsistent, if we want one tyre races to save costs, we should have one tyre races. Why have different rules for different situations. Or if we admit that the one tyre rule is not sustainable we can justrevert to the old system.

[funkejay 0]

agree on JV's laptime.

as for the tyres, I have consistently opposed the one tyre rule. It has led to dangerous situations with the two mclaren drivers when they were driving around the track putting their own and the lives of other drivers in danger, Montoya in Monza and Kimi in an earlier race. 

well there are plenty of tyres on road cars that can grip in the rain and last thousands of kilometres. forcing tyres to last a whole race under any conditions will make them simply drive slower in the adverse conditions. The tyre companies can surely make wet / intermediate tyres that last a whole race even if they will be slower than the present tyres. Otherwise I find it inconsistent, if we want one tyre races to save costs, we should have one tyre races. Why have different rules for different situations. Or if we admit that the one tyre rule is not sustainable we can justrevert to the old system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only way to make the cars "stick" with long lasting inters would be to increase aero downforce, but that would only serve to make overtaking even more difficult (which most fans do not want).

Although you're right about road car tires lasting much longer, they do not operate in conditions that require the cars to maintain grip despite experiencing more than 3g of lateral grip. No commercially available tire would allow that, particularly while trying to put 900+ bhp to the ground.

I don't know about the one slick tyre per race rule (you may be right about its futility as well - the FIA were obviously remiss in not anticipating the failure Kimi experienced at the Nurburgring), but I do know that a one wet or inter tyre per race rule cannot work.

[Senna 0]

Absolutely right, Senna.

For this race (as with any that takes place under changeable conditions) lap times should be accompanied by a note indicating which tyres the time was set on. At the end of the race the 'slicks' were wholly three to four seconds a lap faster on average than the inters (and in some cases significantly more), so what at first blush might look impressive, may be the result of vastly different equipment, and therefore be very misleading as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed.

[Taku 0]

the jordans were nothing short of remarkable in the way they were keeping pace with the saubers. the minardi's were way way off it was pathetic. their new car is a lemon.

[schumi13 0]

2005 Belgian Grand Prix   

Pos  No  Driver Team Lap  Time Of Day  Average Speed  Time

           

8  19  Narain Karthikeyan Jordan-Toyota 43  15:34:54  216.711  1:55.885

           

9  10  Juan Pablo Montoya McLaren-Mercedes 14  14:34:48  216.518  1:55.988

           

10  5  Fernando Alonso Renault 31  15:08:23  216.252  1:56.131

           

11  16  Jarno Trulli Toyota 3  14:09:59  214.732  1:56.953

           

12  6  Giancarlo Fisichella Renault 9  14:22:02  214.431  1:57.117

           

13  1  Michael Schumacher Ferrari 10  14:23:49  213.834  1:57.444

           

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Faster than Michael Schumacher! Although if Michael contiuned he would have probably been in the top 5 there.

[Shadow 0]

you know i really would'nt consider fastest laps for this race, done on diff tyres and conditions. let's have a nice dry race and we'll know how good that jordan is, but it is def much better than minardi now

[Senna 0]

you know i really would'nt consider fastest laps for this race, done on diff tyres and conditions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed.

[Null 0]

you know i really would'nt consider fastest laps for this race, done on diff tyres and conditions.

I was just about to say the very same thing myself

[cavallino 2]

the minardi's were way way off it was pathetic. their new car is a lemon.

apparently they gambled on the setup and tyre choice which explains their qualifying performance. that said the new jordan is definitely a far better car.