2810 replies to this topic

[Kati]

wapi, on 06 July 2009 - 05:35 AM, said:

If this is the motive, he has choosen wrong way. There are ways that might attract the media without you loosing your job. He is going to loose his job, I am sure.



Did anyone else had a chance to try in the last 20 years? Also you might argue that Max and himself with their supreme leadership abilities have brought the sport into position of falling appart. It happened because of their misjudgemnt of Ross Brawn and Dieter Matesitch. If only for that I think both of them should be retired urgently for the good of the sport.



Bernie was playing along with Max and being mostly quiet until he has seen that there is no room for jokes and manipulations, that Formula is falling appart. Only then he changed his tune, but until then he actively supported Max's policy. So his leadership abilities failed together with Mosley's. They were beaten by united teams. They can put up a battle or two but their power is diminishing and talking about Hitler do not help your survival at that position.

- If he leaves F1 will be due to his age, not because someone will 'cut his job'. this option doesn't exist. sorry.
- As I said, you are mistaking Bernie and Max and they are two different people. Bernie wants F1 to work fine and give him investment return. Max wants the power. If Bernie can have someone he can trust into making him sure F1 WILL suceed like he trusts in Max, ok, good for him. But believe me, the Fota bulls*it 1. was never a true attempt, because even they knew they couldnt do it and 2. was destined to a major failure, that'd end up with both F1 and their news series. And the end of the sport, thank u very much.
- That's exactly what he meant with this quote. When you have a leader, u trust him and u let him take choices that he considers being the best for you, and u follow him. The point with Max is that there is a BIG difference between being a leader and a being a boss. When you are a leader, people trust you are the best for that position, and that you are gonna do the best for them, sp they respect you and follow you. When you are the boss, people just follow you because of hierarchy (what mosley tried to hold up to), or because you can ruin this person's life (either byt cutting salaries, or by causing any other kind of harm). But well, they just decided they didn't care of what Max could do, and Bernie was the only who saw him as a leader in the end.

[Insider]

Right.  Has the Rothschild faction left the building? Good. Today in F1 this happened.......

More FIA skullduggery here: http://www.totalf1.c...out_of_the_bag/

RBR determined to copy BGP down to the last bolt?: http://www.totalf1.c...change_engines/

More fallout from Ecclestone's Kristallacht: http://www.totalf1.c...estone_meeting/

NB If you want to start a thread about fascists in sport - there's plenty of room elsewhere on Total F1, guys.

[Insider]

Major tip? Expect LG to expand their relationship with F1 to a specific team.  Rumours abound that BGP are current favourites though Williams are obviously gagging for it and Campos wouldn't say no.

EDIT: Typo

Edited by Insider, 06 July 2009 - 02:32 PM.

[mikathegreat2]

Uh oh, no more German GP in F1 (or Nazi GP) in Bernie's case!

[Cinco]

Okay, here's my contribution to bringing this back to F1:

Brendon Hartley got a sex change.

Well at least I thought so when I saw his picture on GP Update and said "what a hideous girl, who is that?"  Then I realized it was him.  Cut your hair, you look like a tool and a trannie all at once.  Oh well, he's all talk no talent so he won't be on the grid anyway .

A real F1 contribution: JR Hildebrand (did Brands with A1GP Team USA) won the Indy Lights race at Watkins Glen (which is like winning a go-kart race in Europe) and allegedly doing so has placed him a bit higher on Team US F1's list.  Expect him to get a test.  My source is rumor-based speculation.  So don't actually expect the test but don't be surprised if it happens.  Not like it really matters.  There aren't any good choices for them, at least not for a few years when we can see if Josef Newgarden is as good as he appears and if Alexander Rossi's as half-decent as he appears.

Valencia another track struggling with attendance, cutting 35k seats: http://en.f1-live.co...703101928.shtml

I think having two GPs in one country is just never a good idea, no matter how big that country is.  Perhaps if Alonso wasn't doing so poorly it'd be different, but...planning races around how you think a driver is going to perform will bite you when that driver doesn't perform.

[wapi]

Kati, on 06 July 2009 - 11:27 AM, said:

- If he leaves F1 will be due to his age, not because someone will 'cut his job'. this option doesn't exist. sorry.
- As I said, you are mistaking Bernie and Max and they are two different people. Bernie wants F1 to work fine and give him investment return. Max wants the power. If Bernie can have someone he can trust into making him sure F1 WILL suceed like he trusts in Max, ok, good for him. But believe me, the Fota bulls*it 1. was never a true attempt, because even they knew they couldnt do it and 2. was destined to a major failure, that'd end up with both F1 and their news series. And the end of the sport, thank u very much.
- That's exactly what he meant with this quote. When you have a leader, u trust him and u let him take choices that he considers being the best for you, and u follow him. The point with Max is that there is a BIG difference between being a leader and a being a boss. When you are a leader, people trust you are the best for that position, and that you are gonna do the best for them, sp they respect you and follow you. When you are the boss, people just follow you because of hierarchy (what mosley tried to hold up to), or because you can ruin this person's life (either byt cutting salaries, or by causing any other kind of harm). But well, they just decided they didn't care of what Max could do, and Bernie was the only who saw him as a leader in the end.

He can always say it is because of his age or his health. Well I would say that his health is not OK if he has chosen F1 over his family...

I am not mistaking them. They are Laurel and Hardy of Formula 1. They play in sync.
I do not want to discuss FOTA series feasibility. It is fact that Bernie and Max removed all their demands and accepted FOTA demands. They must have thought that threat of the new series is credible. So what two of us think about new series feasibility is irrelevant.

I am sorry Kati I do not follow blindly any leader, I think about what I do and decide if I will continue to follow or not. That is my frame of mind. [E.g. I supported Max in his fight for privacy, but this year his idea to impose rules to the teams is simply unacceptable.]

You are still young, you'll learn.

[Kati]

i won't. i don't wanna think like you.

[wapi]

Some of us are sheep, some are shepards and some do not participate in that submission show.

[Kati]

Some of us live in real life and some of us think the world is pink and everyone should be friendly and nice to others. I live in real world, sorry.

[Rainmaster]

Bernie's response to this episode is covered in James Allen's latest blog entry, found here. If you don't read JA's blog, then start.

[wapi]

Kati, on 06 July 2009 - 04:42 PM, said:

Some of us live in real life and some of us think the world is pink and everyone should be friendly and nice to others. I live in real world, sorry.

There is big and important difference between being nice and friendly and being correct. I think public speech should be correct otherwise we are creating media noise.

What is substance of his saying? What is relation of his interview to his job in F1? None! He could have said it without being offensive to anyone. Since then F1 was in the focus, once again, for completely wrong reason. Wasn't enough to have son of the British Nazi leader role playing concentration camp scenario in London dungeons combined with his authoritarian leadership style of the FIA?

[Kati]

God, I'm not talking about thatt, you dn't have any sense of interpretation. What I mean is tht not everyone is nice in real life, not everything has do with passion, and things are not perfect.

He wasn't offensive at all, you're all too sensible, I guess. And I'm the girl here. I could've got offended with you telling me I was 'too young and needed to learn' but I didn't, so well I think we have a problem with people here. Bernie was talking about leadership and mentioned an example of someone who 'could get things done'. Couldn't he? Didn't he? He didn't say it was nice, it was used for anything good, he just said ti worked and he didn't lie. Like when he spoke of Saddam talking bout the fact he 'did what he felt necessary there' and we judged him even if we weren't in his position. Didn't we judge him thru our concepts? Didn't we also judge Max? Don't we all think he's wrong, even though no one here is a F1 expert for real? Also, what his father did or didn't do doesn't have anything to do with you, or me or anyone here. Otherwise let's just say all Germany should burn in hell. That's how you are judging people. And then you come tell ME I need to grow up.

[wapi]

Kati, on 06 July 2009 - 07:17 PM, said:

God, I'm not talking about thatt, you dn't have any sense of interpretation. What I mean is tht not everyone is nice in real life, not everything has do with passion, and things are not perfect.

I know what you said and I have a feeling that you understood me also. If you are public figure you should not be rude. :kiss

Kati, on 06 July 2009 - 07:17 PM, said:

He wasn't offensive at all, you're all too sensible, I guess. And I'm the girl here. I could've got offended with you telling me I was 'too young and needed to learn' but I didn't, so well I think we have a problem with people here.

I am sorry for refering to your age but in my defence: it is expected that your views will change with your maturity and life experience. There is name for tooth no.8 in Croatian. It is called wisdom tooth. People usually get it after age 25...

Kati, on 06 July 2009 - 07:17 PM, said:

Bernie was talking about leadership and mentioned an example of someone who 'could get things done'. Couldn't he? Didn't he? He didn't say it was nice, it was used for anything good, he just said ti worked and he didn't lie.

His choice of example showed lack of good judgment on his side. He could have chosen Alexander the Great or Ramzes II or Napoleon who are much less controversial than Adolf.

Kati, on 06 July 2009 - 07:17 PM, said:

Also, what his father did or didn't do doesn't have anything to do with you, or me or anyone here. Otherwise let's just say all Germany should burn in hell. That's how you are judging people. And then you come tell ME I need to grow up.

I am not judging people on that, I told you I was defending him a year ago, but his father did not help his image combined with other factors. After all, in spite of his ancestor he achieved a lot in his profesional career so nobody hold it against him. I did not.

So please do not get angry it is not worth it... As a token of good will I send you smile and kiss to the cheek.

[Oli]

This is such a non-story. His comments made total sense to anyone who isn't a total moron.

In addition his clarification should make it obvious what he was driving at. Anyone still offended needs to get the stick out of their butt.

[Quiet One]

Oli, on 06 July 2009 - 08:43 PM, said:

This is such a non-story. His comments made total sense to anyone who isn't a total moron.

In addition his clarification should make it obvious what he was driving at. Anyone still offended needs to get the stick out of their butt.

Why thank you! I like my stick there, BTW.

BTW, James Allen's "clarification" was below his usual standard of posts and just makes no sense. But I guess nobody is interested.
Aw, feck it. I'm bored.

[Oli]

I meant Bernie's clarifications rather than JA's.

Enjoy the stick- sexy time!

Edited by Oli, 06 July 2009 - 09:19 PM.

[Kati]

wapi, on 06 July 2009 - 07:49 PM, said:

I know what you said and I have a feeling that you understood me also. If you are public figure you should not be rude. :kiss



I am sorry for refering to your age but in my defence: it is expected that your views will change with your maturity and life experience. There is name for tooth no.8 in Croatian. It is called wisdom tooth. People usually get it after age 25...



His choice of example showed lack of good judgment on his side. He could have chosen Alexander the Great or Ramzes II or Napoleon who are much less controversial than Adolf.


I am not judging people on that, I told you I was defending him a year ago, but his father did not help his image combined with other factors. After all, in spite of his ancestor he achieved a lot in his profesional career so nobody hold it against him. I did not.

So please do not get angry it is not worth it... As a token of good will I send you smile and kiss to the cheek.

im 22(almost 23) and i already have all my wisdom tooth for a while About Napoleon, to me he didn't do any better than the other, sorry. It's just the fact it happened MUCH more time before, and that everything was done in Germany was so clearly documentated, so everyone sees. I still think Bernie's example was perfect. Controversial, yes, but perfect. And yes, I almost love you too ^^

Oli, on 06 July 2009 - 08:43 PM, said:

This is such a non-story. His comments made total sense to anyone who isn't a total moron.

In addition his clarification should make it obvious what he was driving at. Anyone still offended needs to get the stick out of their butt.

awwww! Real life!

[monza gorilla]

At the risk of straying onto topic, I note that the wonderful Ari Vatanen has announced his interest in the FIA presidency. I doubt if he has much of an axe to grind. But he may demand that F1 is run on forest stages, on gravel, in fog.

[monza gorilla]

Quiet One, on 06 July 2009 - 08:55 PM, said:

BTW, James Allen's "clarification" was below his usual standard of posts and just makes no sense. But I guess nobody is interested.
Aw, feck it. I'm bored.

Quite so. It is probably the most feeble entry so far. An apology. An excuse. Flim flam and fiddlesticks. I got the impression that someone had told asked him to write the entry.

Edited by monza gorilla, 07 July 2009 - 08:44 AM.

[JHS]

monza gorilla, on 07 July 2009 - 08:37 AM, said:

At the risk of straying onto topic, I note that the wonderful Ari Vatanen has announced his interest in the FIA presidency. I doubt if he has much of an axe to grind. But he may demand that F1 is run on forest stages, on gravel, in fog.

Weirdly, there is a facebook group called "Ari Vatanen for FIA president" even before this came to light....

Oh well, if anyone could make WRC better again, it probably would be him. As for F1.......anyone's guess.

Edited by JHS, 07 July 2009 - 12:22 PM.

[Insider]

monza gorilla, on 07 July 2009 - 08:43 AM, said:

Quite so. It is probably the most feeble entry so far. An apology. An excuse. Flim flam and fiddlesticks. I got the impression that someone had told asked him to write the entry.

Good news about Ari.  He's got my vote.

I see Bernie has grovelled to the press and whipped himself with thorns, [I recommend it] all except the Jewish Chronicle where he delivered a tongue-lashing to the World Jewish Council for not sorting the banks out.  A fair shout, I think but decidedly Hitleresque. I did say he does have a roundabout way of doing things but he gets to the point in the end. If Bernie's lost it, I'm the next WDC!

EDIT: Typo

Edited by Insider, 07 July 2009 - 01:01 PM.

[Quiet One]

monza gorilla, on 07 July 2009 - 08:43 AM, said:

Quite so. It is probably the most feeble entry so far. An apology. An excuse. Flim flam and fiddlesticks. I got the impression that someone had told asked him to write the entry.

I had the same impression. It didn't seem like JA at all. I am a fan of his blog, by the way.

As for Ari Vatanen, he gets my vote. Just because his classic video running up Pike's Peak is one of the most beautiful moments in motorsport. It certainly beats Max Mosley's videos.

[Rainmaster]

Quote

Analysis: Vatanen's name not enough

By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, July 7th 2009, 11:47 GMT

Ari Vatanen's high profile in the motor racing world may make him a serious contender to become FIA president, whether or not he ends up standing against Max Mosley in October, but the governing body's voting system means he will not just be able to rely on his own reputation.

The former world rally champion is a popular figure within the motor racing world. Beyond that, he has experience of politics, having been a member of the European Parliament from 1999 until this year, plus has had a role within the governing body as a trustee for the FIA Foundation.

However, success in the fight for FIA president is not just about the attributes of the single man standing for the top job - because it requires a whole 22-strong 'cabinet' list to be nominated prior to the election taking place.

This cabinet system was introduced in 2005, just prior to Mosley successfully winning another term as president after standing unopposed. The original aim of the cabinet system was to ensure that wild card candidates could not put themselves forward and hope to capitalise on merely a negative vote for the current president.

In a letter sent in 2005, prior to the FIA senate approving the cabinet system, Mosley said: "In order to be successful, a candidate for the presidency would need the open support and backing of major participants in the FIA.

"This would mean that the presidency would tend to go to someone with a team and a programme, both of which had broad support throughout the FIA rather than the backing of any particular interest group."

In a reminder document sent last week by the FIA to national motoring authorities worldwide, which has been seen by AUTOSPORT, the process by which the elections at the General Assembly on October 23 will take place were laid out.

It confirmed that the list of candidates for president may be submitted from September 11 to October 2. The document also said that an application to stand for president had to include the 'full name, position and signature' of each of the 22 candidates being put forward to form the 'cabinet'.

This core group of people must include a President of the Senate, a Deputy President for Sport, a Deputy President for Automobile Mobility and Tourism, five members of the Senate, seven vice-presidents of the FIA for Sport and seven vice-presidents of the FIA for Automobile Mobility and Tourism.

Assembling a 22-strong team ready to be so public in its support is not an insurmountable problem, but one big difficulty is that none of the individuals on one presidential hopeful's list can be present on another.

The FIA document said: "A list cannot include a candidate who is already registered on another list, on pain of ineligibility of the said candidate. Should such be the case, (and after the identification by the FIA Secretariat) the list reader must provide a replacement for the 'lost' candidate in the conditions set out in the FIA Internal Regulations."

The impact of the system is that it is almost certainly beneficial to the incumbent. So, should Mosley choose to stand again, he will likely have in place the strongest team with the most widespread support - leaving rivals with no option but to choose a team of different cabinet members who may not be anywhere near as influential.

Furthermore, if there is more than one candidate that chooses to go up against Mosley, then that could further dilute the strength of the members of each of their rival cabinets.

Should Mosley see through with his decision not to stand again, then his influence over elections could still sway matters. The candidate who has his support could end up with his best cabinet members - which would be a massive boost to the chances of success.

While the FIA and Formula 1 teams await with bated breath to see if Mosley will stand again in October's elections, the fight for the future presidency will be as much about what takes place behind closed doors up until October 23 as it will be about what happens in the ballot boxes on election day.

Autosport

No fair competition for FIA's leading role. Unsurprised.

[Cinco]

So, who exactly is Ari Vatanen?

[mikathegreat2]

Cinco, on 07 July 2009 - 03:16 PM, said:

So, who exactly is Ari Vatanen?

Judging by his name, a former WRC champion!

[Quiet One]

Cinco, on 07 July 2009 - 03:16 PM, said:

So, who exactly is Ari Vatanen?

1) Go to Youtube
2) Look for "Ari Vatanen Pike's Peak" or similar
3) Enjoy

I didn't know he was a member of the European Parlament and all that jazz. I lost track of him after he retired from Rally. Sounds like a valuable person indeed.

[mikathegreat2]

Quiet One, on 07 July 2009 - 03:22 PM, said:

1) Go to Youtube
2) Look for "Ari Vatanen Pike's Peak" or similar
3) Enjoy

Knew it was something to do with rally!

[Quiet One]

[JHS]

mikathegreat2, on 07 July 2009 - 03:21 PM, said:

Judging by his name, a former WRC champion!

He's a world rally legend and just generally awesome at life.

Edited by JHS, 07 July 2009 - 04:41 PM.

[Cinco]

JHS, on 07 July 2009 - 04:41 PM, said:

He's a world rally legend and just generally awesome at life.

Generally awesome at life?  You sound like me.