2
Replacing Massa
Started by
Quiet One
, Mar 18 2012 08:14 PM
325 replies to this topic
#62
AleHop
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 02:46 PM
Wow, Mr. DPR knows how to make a fool of himself with his intelligent humour. More of this, please. Keep going.
Fray Luis de León said:
As we were saying yesterday...
Tradition has it that he began his lecture the first day after returning from four years' imprisonment with the words "as we were saying yesterday..."
#63
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 03:00 PM
AleHop, on 19 March 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:
Wow, Mr. DPR knows how to make a fool of himself with his intelligent humour. More of this, please. Keep going.
“We keep on working, we do our thing,” Vettel shouts over the team radio, “We are who we are!”
"Vettel is a champion. That’s not referring to his achievements, but rather to his approach to everything he does. He wins. All the time. His preparation is meticulous, his attention to detail reminiscent of Michael Schumacher at his peak, and his performance on the track is almost always flawless. Vettel is capable only of domination. He knows no other way... Vettel is not in Formula One to be liked. He is there to win. And in the words of Ayrton Senna, perhaps the greatest of all Formula One drivers, “Nice men don’t win.”"
Chris Cameron-Dow
"One might be tempted to say Ferrari are inconsistent this year. I think the opposite.
They are having one very good race followed by one very poor race. Consistently."
Multi21 on JA blog
#64
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 03:06 PM
Quote
More of this, please. Keep going.
If you insist, but for now I must do some work
Alonso fans are the easiest people in the world to wind up. (even easier than Hammy fans)
#65
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 03:30 PM
DPR, on 19 March 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:
If you insist, but for now I must do some work
Alonso fans are the easiest people in the world to wind up. (even easier than Hammy fans)
I love when people vomit their resentments towards Alonso.
Feel free to come back whenever you feel it. It may help you.
Fray Luis de León said:
As we were saying yesterday...
Tradition has it that he began his lecture the first day after returning from four years' imprisonment with the words "as we were saying yesterday..."
#66
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 03:32 PM
BradSpeedMan, on 19 March 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:
Seems Andres was right after all...
What about?
Fray Luis de León said:
As we were saying yesterday...
Tradition has it that he began his lecture the first day after returning from four years' imprisonment with the words "as we were saying yesterday..."
#67
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 04:14 PM
Oh I do love the irony of it all. We're discussing Massa's replacement.
Truth is - he probably meets most peoples expectations of him (very low).
It does seem a little strange that with Massa and a so-called lazy fin - WDC (and very nearly another).
With an allegedly over-rated German taxi driver - several WDC
With Nando - ....ermmm...nothing, nowt, zip, zilch, zero.
I guess Nando lovers will have to just have to wait yet another year and hope 2013 brings you something.
(although Fiat are already behind Mclaren, RBR, Merc, Lotus and probably Williams - geez, that's alot of work to do!)
He's burned too many bridges to go anywhere else, so he's stuck at Fiat - So let's hope Fiat don't keep making the sort of "leap forward" that they have done since signing Nando, or by the time he comes to the end of his deal, they'll be lucky to be in 107% rule!
Maybe we should start another thread asking "Who can help Massa rebuild this team?"
Truth is - he probably meets most peoples expectations of him (very low).
It does seem a little strange that with Massa and a so-called lazy fin - WDC (and very nearly another).
With an allegedly over-rated German taxi driver - several WDC
With Nando - ....ermmm...nothing, nowt, zip, zilch, zero.
I guess Nando lovers will have to just have to wait yet another year and hope 2013 brings you something.
(although Fiat are already behind Mclaren, RBR, Merc, Lotus and probably Williams - geez, that's alot of work to do!)
He's burned too many bridges to go anywhere else, so he's stuck at Fiat - So let's hope Fiat don't keep making the sort of "leap forward" that they have done since signing Nando, or by the time he comes to the end of his deal, they'll be lucky to be in 107% rule!
Maybe we should start another thread asking "Who can help Massa rebuild this team?"
#68
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 04:17 PM
DPR, on 19 March 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:
Oh I do love the irony of it all. We're discussing Massa's replacement.
Truth is - he probably meets most peoples expectations of him (very low).
It does seem a little strange that with Massa and a so-called lazy fin - WDC (and very nearly another).
With an allegedly over-rated German taxi driver - several WDC
With Nando - ....ermmm...nothing, nowt, zip, zilch, zero.
I guess Nando lovers will have to just have to wait yet another year and hope 2013 brings you something.
(although Fiat are already behind Mclaren, RBR, Merc, Lotus and probably Williams - geez, that's alot of work to do!)
He's burned too many bridges to go anywhere else, so he's stuck at Fiat - So let's hope Fiat don't keep making the sort of "leap forward" that they have done since signing Nando, or by the time he comes to the end of his deal, they'll be lucky to be in 107% rule!
Maybe we should start another thread asking "Who can help Massa rebuild this team?"
Truth is - he probably meets most peoples expectations of him (very low).
It does seem a little strange that with Massa and a so-called lazy fin - WDC (and very nearly another).
With an allegedly over-rated German taxi driver - several WDC
With Nando - ....ermmm...nothing, nowt, zip, zilch, zero.
I guess Nando lovers will have to just have to wait yet another year and hope 2013 brings you something.
(although Fiat are already behind Mclaren, RBR, Merc, Lotus and probably Williams - geez, that's alot of work to do!)
He's burned too many bridges to go anywhere else, so he's stuck at Fiat - So let's hope Fiat don't keep making the sort of "leap forward" that they have done since signing Nando, or by the time he comes to the end of his deal, they'll be lucky to be in 107% rule!
Maybe we should start another thread asking "Who can help Massa rebuild this team?"
not that we're like that but, good to stir things up abit....
Edited by BradSpeedMan, 19 March 2012 - 04:21 PM.
“We keep on working, we do our thing,” Vettel shouts over the team radio, “We are who we are!”
"Vettel is a champion. That’s not referring to his achievements, but rather to his approach to everything he does. He wins. All the time. His preparation is meticulous, his attention to detail reminiscent of Michael Schumacher at his peak, and his performance on the track is almost always flawless. Vettel is capable only of domination. He knows no other way... Vettel is not in Formula One to be liked. He is there to win. And in the words of Ayrton Senna, perhaps the greatest of all Formula One drivers, “Nice men don’t win.”"
Chris Cameron-Dow
"One might be tempted to say Ferrari are inconsistent this year. I think the opposite.
They are having one very good race followed by one very poor race. Consistently."
Multi21 on JA blog
#69
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 04:31 PM
hey Brad, if I upset any Nando fans then my work is done!
Fact is, since spygate, then crashgate he's done nothing to enhance either his or F1's image.
I'm starting to suspect he may well still be secretly under the pay of Ron Dennis. How else could you explain the obvious sabotage that someone is orchestrating at Fiat.
This may explain why Fiat are looking for a special deal with the new concorde agreement, coz they wont get much in performance winnings will they?
Fact is, since spygate, then crashgate he's done nothing to enhance either his or F1's image.
I'm starting to suspect he may well still be secretly under the pay of Ron Dennis. How else could you explain the obvious sabotage that someone is orchestrating at Fiat.
This may explain why Fiat are looking for a special deal with the new concorde agreement, coz they wont get much in performance winnings will they?
#70
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:54 PM
DPR, on 19 March 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:
hey Brad, if I upset any Nando fans then my work is done!
Fray Luis de León said:
As we were saying yesterday...
Tradition has it that he began his lecture the first day after returning from four years' imprisonment with the words "as we were saying yesterday..."
#71
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:50 PM
Every TP and driver in the pit lane would agree that Alonso is the complete package, the real thing and Ferrari's No.1 asset. His past, contentious as it may be, means nothing. Nassuno. Capische? This is F1. Winning is everything. Losing is not an option. Nothing else is relevant to the teams, drivers, sponsors, organisers, franchisees, bankers, broadcasters, whatever. Got it?
The Scuderia is a one driver team. Always has been. They also generally hire the best No. 2s in the world. Massa was one until he got whacked in the eye and lost his mojo. McLaren have set a new benchmark though. They have a team where no one is No.1 or No.2 and it works. RBR have a similar system, apparently but it helps if you're German.The new points system makes the double-team theory hit all the right buttons in terms of winning Championships. Ferrari will replace Massa because he is deemed impotent points-wise nowadays. They should hire Perez because Alonso isn't getting any younger but they will probably go for Webber because he's a good 'bloke' and he won't cost much. The alternative is to build a great car that anyone of ten drivers could look good in but that seems way out of reach just now.
The Scuderia is a one driver team. Always has been. They also generally hire the best No. 2s in the world. Massa was one until he got whacked in the eye and lost his mojo. McLaren have set a new benchmark though. They have a team where no one is No.1 or No.2 and it works. RBR have a similar system, apparently but it helps if you're German.The new points system makes the double-team theory hit all the right buttons in terms of winning Championships. Ferrari will replace Massa because he is deemed impotent points-wise nowadays. They should hire Perez because Alonso isn't getting any younger but they will probably go for Webber because he's a good 'bloke' and he won't cost much. The alternative is to build a great car that anyone of ten drivers could look good in but that seems way out of reach just now.
Listening to: Steve Earle/The Low Highway, Band From Rockall/Band From Rockall, Ducks Deluxe/Rockin' At The Moon
“Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain”
“Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain”
#72
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:56 PM
Fiat owned, and red's their color...
Rebrand the Ferrari as Dodge. Sure as hell is handling like one. They called the last one F150, but now they'd actually have legal permission to use Ram, and I'd find that quite fitting for how one of the boys is driving.
I still say fire Domenicali, right now. Bring in anyone who has a different approach than he does. I don't care if he's Flavio Briatore with all that baggage (and all that baggage packed in his tight shirts, too), or someone we've never heard of before, or someone who isn't even in F1 and never has been. If they run the show differently than Domenicali and they know how to inspire their team to be their best such that it's fair to release anyone who isn't at their best (if you have an actual system of making people do a good job, and someone isn't doing that, then you know they don't fit in the system so it's just best to move on). If you bring someone new in RIGHT NOW, that gives you some time to evaluate. If Massa picks it up under new management, or if the car designers figure something out, you have a clear idea of where to go. If it doesn't improve, you can cut them mid-season and start thinking long-term. It's not like they'd be throwing away any potential successes this year to take some risks. You have to send a message to the team. Even if you sack Massa and Alguersuari or whomever comes in and does no better, it makes a statement: you're only as good as your last performance, so dig deep.
Right now, it's a team where there are no rewards (Räikkönen gets demoted after his championship year; Massa gets demoted after beating Räikkönen over their time together) and no punishments (Massa gets a contract extension time after time; not enough turnover in the design department; Domenicali gets away with running this mess). People are more inspired to be the team's friend, because performance, good or bad, hasn't been making a whole lot of difference.
Rebrand the Ferrari as Dodge. Sure as hell is handling like one. They called the last one F150, but now they'd actually have legal permission to use Ram, and I'd find that quite fitting for how one of the boys is driving.
I still say fire Domenicali, right now. Bring in anyone who has a different approach than he does. I don't care if he's Flavio Briatore with all that baggage (and all that baggage packed in his tight shirts, too), or someone we've never heard of before, or someone who isn't even in F1 and never has been. If they run the show differently than Domenicali and they know how to inspire their team to be their best such that it's fair to release anyone who isn't at their best (if you have an actual system of making people do a good job, and someone isn't doing that, then you know they don't fit in the system so it's just best to move on). If you bring someone new in RIGHT NOW, that gives you some time to evaluate. If Massa picks it up under new management, or if the car designers figure something out, you have a clear idea of where to go. If it doesn't improve, you can cut them mid-season and start thinking long-term. It's not like they'd be throwing away any potential successes this year to take some risks. You have to send a message to the team. Even if you sack Massa and Alguersuari or whomever comes in and does no better, it makes a statement: you're only as good as your last performance, so dig deep.
Right now, it's a team where there are no rewards (Räikkönen gets demoted after his championship year; Massa gets demoted after beating Räikkönen over their time together) and no punishments (Massa gets a contract extension time after time; not enough turnover in the design department; Domenicali gets away with running this mess). People are more inspired to be the team's friend, because performance, good or bad, hasn't been making a whole lot of difference.
Eric
#73
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:10 PM
Massa, on 19 March 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:
Right now, it's a team where there are no rewards (Räikkönen gets demoted after his championship year; Massa gets demoted after beating Räikkönen over their time together) and no punishments (Massa gets a contract extension time after time; not enough turnover in the design department; Domenicali gets away with running this mess). People are more inspired to be the team's friend, because performance, good or bad, hasn't been making a whole lot of difference.
Fray Luis de León said:
As we were saying yesterday...
Tradition has it that he began his lecture the first day after returning from four years' imprisonment with the words "as we were saying yesterday..."
#74
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:13 PM
Massa, on 19 March 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:
Fiat owned, and red's their color...
Rebrand the Ferrari as Dodge. Sure as hell is handling like one. They called the last one F150, but now they'd actually have legal permission to use Ram, and I'd find that quite fitting for how one of the boys is driving.
I still say fire Domenicali, right now. Bring in anyone who has a different approach than he does. I don't care if he's Flavio Briatore with all that baggage (and all that baggage packed in his tight shirts, too), or someone we've never heard of before, or someone who isn't even in F1 and never has been. If they run the show differently than Domenicali and they know how to inspire their team to be their best such that it's fair to release anyone who isn't at their best (if you have an actual system of making people do a good job, and someone isn't doing that, then you know they don't fit in the system so it's just best to move on). If you bring someone new in RIGHT NOW, that gives you some time to evaluate. If Massa picks it up under new management, or if the car designers figure something out, you have a clear idea of where to go. If it doesn't improve, you can cut them mid-season and start thinking long-term. It's not like they'd be throwing away any potential successes this year to take some risks. You have to send a message to the team. Even if you sack Massa and Alguersuari or whomever comes in and does no better, it makes a statement: you're only as good as your last performance, so dig deep.
Right now, it's a team where there are no rewards (Räikkönen gets demoted after his championship year; Massa gets demoted after beating Räikkönen over their time together) and no punishments (Massa gets a contract extension time after time; not enough turnover in the design department; Domenicali gets away with running this mess). People are more inspired to be the team's friend, because performance, good or bad, hasn't been making a whole lot of difference.
Rebrand the Ferrari as Dodge. Sure as hell is handling like one. They called the last one F150, but now they'd actually have legal permission to use Ram, and I'd find that quite fitting for how one of the boys is driving.
I still say fire Domenicali, right now. Bring in anyone who has a different approach than he does. I don't care if he's Flavio Briatore with all that baggage (and all that baggage packed in his tight shirts, too), or someone we've never heard of before, or someone who isn't even in F1 and never has been. If they run the show differently than Domenicali and they know how to inspire their team to be their best such that it's fair to release anyone who isn't at their best (if you have an actual system of making people do a good job, and someone isn't doing that, then you know they don't fit in the system so it's just best to move on). If you bring someone new in RIGHT NOW, that gives you some time to evaluate. If Massa picks it up under new management, or if the car designers figure something out, you have a clear idea of where to go. If it doesn't improve, you can cut them mid-season and start thinking long-term. It's not like they'd be throwing away any potential successes this year to take some risks. You have to send a message to the team. Even if you sack Massa and Alguersuari or whomever comes in and does no better, it makes a statement: you're only as good as your last performance, so dig deep.
Right now, it's a team where there are no rewards (Räikkönen gets demoted after his championship year; Massa gets demoted after beating Räikkönen over their time together) and no punishments (Massa gets a contract extension time after time; not enough turnover in the design department; Domenicali gets away with running this mess). People are more inspired to be the team's friend, because performance, good or bad, hasn't been making a whole lot of difference.
“We keep on working, we do our thing,” Vettel shouts over the team radio, “We are who we are!”
"Vettel is a champion. That’s not referring to his achievements, but rather to his approach to everything he does. He wins. All the time. His preparation is meticulous, his attention to detail reminiscent of Michael Schumacher at his peak, and his performance on the track is almost always flawless. Vettel is capable only of domination. He knows no other way... Vettel is not in Formula One to be liked. He is there to win. And in the words of Ayrton Senna, perhaps the greatest of all Formula One drivers, “Nice men don’t win.”"
Chris Cameron-Dow
"One might be tempted to say Ferrari are inconsistent this year. I think the opposite.
They are having one very good race followed by one very poor race. Consistently."
Multi21 on JA blog
#75
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:21 PM
Insider, on 19 March 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:
Every TP and driver in the pit lane would agree that Alonso is the complete package, the real thing and Ferrari's No.1 asset. His past, contentious as it may be, means nothing. Nassuno. Capische? This is F1. Winning is everything. Losing is not an option. Nothing else is relevant to the teams, drivers, sponsors, organisers, franchisees, bankers, broadcasters, whatever. Got it?
The Scuderia is a one driver team. Always has been. They also generally hire the best No. 2s in the world. Massa was one until he got whacked in the eye and lost his mojo. McLaren have set a new benchmark though. They have a team where no one is No.1 or No.2 and it works. RBR have a similar system, apparently but it helps if you're German.The new points system makes the double-team theory hit all the right buttons in terms of winning Championships. Ferrari will replace Massa because he is deemed impotent points-wise nowadays. They should hire Perez because Alonso isn't getting any younger but they will probably go for Webber because he's a good 'bloke' and he won't cost much. The alternative is to build a great car that anyone of ten drivers could look good in but that seems way out of reach just now.
The Scuderia is a one driver team. Always has been. They also generally hire the best No. 2s in the world. Massa was one until he got whacked in the eye and lost his mojo. McLaren have set a new benchmark though. They have a team where no one is No.1 or No.2 and it works. RBR have a similar system, apparently but it helps if you're German.The new points system makes the double-team theory hit all the right buttons in terms of winning Championships. Ferrari will replace Massa because he is deemed impotent points-wise nowadays. They should hire Perez because Alonso isn't getting any younger but they will probably go for Webber because he's a good 'bloke' and he won't cost much. The alternative is to build a great car that anyone of ten drivers could look good in but that seems way out of reach just now.
Finish. Nada. Nassuno. Capische
By all means if Ferrari should continue down this dark and gloomy road, I'll be grinning from ear to ear... Finish. Nada. Nassuno. Capische
The more I say this the more I like it!
FFS!!!!!
Edited by BradSpeedMan, 19 March 2012 - 07:29 PM.
“We keep on working, we do our thing,” Vettel shouts over the team radio, “We are who we are!”
"Vettel is a champion. That’s not referring to his achievements, but rather to his approach to everything he does. He wins. All the time. His preparation is meticulous, his attention to detail reminiscent of Michael Schumacher at his peak, and his performance on the track is almost always flawless. Vettel is capable only of domination. He knows no other way... Vettel is not in Formula One to be liked. He is there to win. And in the words of Ayrton Senna, perhaps the greatest of all Formula One drivers, “Nice men don’t win.”"
Chris Cameron-Dow
"One might be tempted to say Ferrari are inconsistent this year. I think the opposite.
They are having one very good race followed by one very poor race. Consistently."
Multi21 on JA blog
#76
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:33 PM
One only has to look down the history to note Ferrari's achievement as a one-man band. It's not pretty. Sure, they had incredible resources(as I've mentioned) with the Schumacher era but I personally regard that as a freak period. Plus the competition Michael had were nothing compared to what it is today. Let's not forget the effect of Senna's death....
It has'nt been working down the ages and it is still not working today! Finish. Nada. Nassuno. Capische
FFS!!!
It has'nt been working down the ages and it is still not working today! Finish. Nada. Nassuno. Capische
FFS!!!
Edited by BradSpeedMan, 19 March 2012 - 07:34 PM.
“We keep on working, we do our thing,” Vettel shouts over the team radio, “We are who we are!”
"Vettel is a champion. That’s not referring to his achievements, but rather to his approach to everything he does. He wins. All the time. His preparation is meticulous, his attention to detail reminiscent of Michael Schumacher at his peak, and his performance on the track is almost always flawless. Vettel is capable only of domination. He knows no other way... Vettel is not in Formula One to be liked. He is there to win. And in the words of Ayrton Senna, perhaps the greatest of all Formula One drivers, “Nice men don’t win.”"
Chris Cameron-Dow
"One might be tempted to say Ferrari are inconsistent this year. I think the opposite.
They are having one very good race followed by one very poor race. Consistently."
Multi21 on JA blog
#77
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:02 PM
Again, every team has a number one and number two drivers. Ask DC at Macca, or Prost. Ask Webber. The fact that one guy might be number one at one time and number two at another does not change that simple fact. The difference between RBR/Ferrari and Macca/Merc is that they have the same number one guy over and over. But that's a merit from the number one driver as well. Massa has anything but lacked support from the team. So he was asked to move over for Alonso in 2010 and that's why he sucks? Really? He was always mediocre (not bad, let's say average). Yet they stuck with him all through his injuries and far beyond that even when he failed to give them even some minor points. ANd it's not a case of "because he does not overshadow Alonso". There are many drivers out there who cannot overshadow Alonso, who would probably get along better with Alonso (it is noticeable the efforts Nando do not to show his despise for Felipe) and most of them can at the same time bring more valuable points. We named just a few in this very thread.
No team commits suicide willingly. The only exception seems to be Ferrari at this moment, sticking with a guy that hasn't done anything interesting for the past 3 years. So, either they see something we cannot or they are really that emotional. I tend to be skeptic on the latter option but everything's possible. What I am sure of is that it is not being a case of Alonso wants him. What could they possibly see in Felipinho? I don't know. If it were so obvious people wouldn't be wasting time like we are now at every forum discussing this
No team commits suicide willingly. The only exception seems to be Ferrari at this moment, sticking with a guy that hasn't done anything interesting for the past 3 years. So, either they see something we cannot or they are really that emotional. I tend to be skeptic on the latter option but everything's possible. What I am sure of is that it is not being a case of Alonso wants him. What could they possibly see in Felipinho? I don't know. If it were so obvious people wouldn't be wasting time like we are now at every forum discussing this
"There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the Universe, and it has a longer shelf life" - Frank Zappa
"Great drivers are the ones who win the races they're not supposed to" - K.Chandhok
"On the rare occasions that I play a racing game I often think ‘you know what this needs? A boss battle or two.’ A Formula One game in which, suddenly, everybody else has a monster truck and their sole desire is to squash you. A street racing game with a tank or two blowing the roads and buildings to bits. A Nascar game with a track that occasionally bends to the right" (Adam Smith - RPS)
"Great drivers are the ones who win the races they're not supposed to" - K.Chandhok
"On the rare occasions that I play a racing game I often think ‘you know what this needs? A boss battle or two.’ A Formula One game in which, suddenly, everybody else has a monster truck and their sole desire is to squash you. A street racing game with a tank or two blowing the roads and buildings to bits. A Nascar game with a track that occasionally bends to the right" (Adam Smith - RPS)
#78
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:05 PM
Quiet One, on 19 March 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:
Again, every team has a number one and number two drivers. Ask DC at Macca, or Prost. Ask Webber. The fact that one guy might be number one at one time and number two at another does not change that simple fact. The difference between RBR/Ferrari and Macca/Merc is that they have the same number one guy over and over. But that's a merit from the number one driver as well. Massa has anything but lacked support from the team. So he was asked to move over for Alonso in 2010 and that's why he sucks? Really? He was always mediocre (not bad, let's say average). Yet they stuck with him all through his injuries and far beyond that even when he failed to give them even some minor points. ANd it's not a case of "because he does not overshadow Alonso". There are many drivers out there who cannot overshadow Alonso, who would probably get along better with Alonso (it is noticeable the efforts Nando do not to show his despise for Felipe) and most of them can at the same time bring more valuable points. We named just a few in this very thread.
No team commits suicide willingly. The only exception seems to be Ferrari at this moment, sticking with a guy that hasn't done anything interesting for the past 3 years. So, either they see something we cannot or they are really that emotional. I tend to be skeptic on the latter option but everything's possible. What I am sure of is that it is not being a case of Alonso wants him. What could they possibly see in Felipinho? I don't know. If it were so obvious people wouldn't be wasting time like we are now at every forum discussing this
No team commits suicide willingly. The only exception seems to be Ferrari at this moment, sticking with a guy that hasn't done anything interesting for the past 3 years. So, either they see something we cannot or they are really that emotional. I tend to be skeptic on the latter option but everything's possible. What I am sure of is that it is not being a case of Alonso wants him. What could they possibly see in Felipinho? I don't know. If it were so obvious people wouldn't be wasting time like we are now at every forum discussing this
Finish. Nada. Nassuno. Capische
Edited by BradSpeedMan, 19 March 2012 - 08:06 PM.
“We keep on working, we do our thing,” Vettel shouts over the team radio, “We are who we are!”
"Vettel is a champion. That’s not referring to his achievements, but rather to his approach to everything he does. He wins. All the time. His preparation is meticulous, his attention to detail reminiscent of Michael Schumacher at his peak, and his performance on the track is almost always flawless. Vettel is capable only of domination. He knows no other way... Vettel is not in Formula One to be liked. He is there to win. And in the words of Ayrton Senna, perhaps the greatest of all Formula One drivers, “Nice men don’t win.”"
Chris Cameron-Dow
"One might be tempted to say Ferrari are inconsistent this year. I think the opposite.
They are having one very good race followed by one very poor race. Consistently."
Multi21 on JA blog
#79
HandyNZL
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:05 PM
DPR, on 19 March 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:
What utter tosh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I suppose Red Bull are only selling fizzy drinks to support their racing team!!!!!!!!!
This is the rose tinted crap that ferrari love to peddle - Fiat/Ferrari are just another European struggling car maker looking to improve the brand and therefore sales.
I honestly believe Nando is psychologically scarred by the mullering he received from the then rookie - Hammy.
As long as he's scared of having a top drawer team-mate, then the more responsibility falls on his shoulders - and so far, so far - he's looking like he's not capable of captaining Fiat in the way that Shumi could.
I suppose Red Bull are only selling fizzy drinks to support their racing team!!!!!!!!!
This is the rose tinted crap that ferrari love to peddle - Fiat/Ferrari are just another European struggling car maker looking to improve the brand and therefore sales.
I honestly believe Nando is psychologically scarred by the mullering he received from the then rookie - Hammy.
As long as he's scared of having a top drawer team-mate, then the more responsibility falls on his shoulders - and so far, so far - he's looking like he's not capable of captaining Fiat in the way that Shumi could.
Actually the statement is true. Enzo Ferrari sold road cars to finance his race team. Ferrari was first and foremost a race car producer. They are every bit the same in DNA as McLaren or Williams for example.
#80
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:12 PM
and the difference is that the team is built around Fernando in ferrari's case, which I think is not working
“We keep on working, we do our thing,” Vettel shouts over the team radio, “We are who we are!”
"Vettel is a champion. That’s not referring to his achievements, but rather to his approach to everything he does. He wins. All the time. His preparation is meticulous, his attention to detail reminiscent of Michael Schumacher at his peak, and his performance on the track is almost always flawless. Vettel is capable only of domination. He knows no other way... Vettel is not in Formula One to be liked. He is there to win. And in the words of Ayrton Senna, perhaps the greatest of all Formula One drivers, “Nice men don’t win.”"
Chris Cameron-Dow
"One might be tempted to say Ferrari are inconsistent this year. I think the opposite.
They are having one very good race followed by one very poor race. Consistently."
Multi21 on JA blog
#81
Quiet One
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:24 PM
BradSpeedMan, on 19 March 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:
They are not number ones, they are just better!!! Webber and DC had the same equipment!
Finish. Nada. Nassuno. Capische
Finish. Nada. Nassuno. Capische
So are you implying that Nando is not better than Massa? What's wroing with you? Some piece of Rubens car hit you in the head? 
"There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the Universe, and it has a longer shelf life" - Frank Zappa
"Great drivers are the ones who win the races they're not supposed to" - K.Chandhok
"On the rare occasions that I play a racing game I often think ‘you know what this needs? A boss battle or two.’ A Formula One game in which, suddenly, everybody else has a monster truck and their sole desire is to squash you. A street racing game with a tank or two blowing the roads and buildings to bits. A Nascar game with a track that occasionally bends to the right" (Adam Smith - RPS)
"Great drivers are the ones who win the races they're not supposed to" - K.Chandhok
"On the rare occasions that I play a racing game I often think ‘you know what this needs? A boss battle or two.’ A Formula One game in which, suddenly, everybody else has a monster truck and their sole desire is to squash you. A street racing game with a tank or two blowing the roads and buildings to bits. A Nascar game with a track that occasionally bends to the right" (Adam Smith - RPS)
#82
HandyNZL
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:59 PM
Some teams have number ones and will provide them with the best opportunities for success, but no team will put the other half of the team in a fully disadvantage position as that is just suicide for the team as a whole (won't be scoring as many points for a start, and if the number one has bad season, not all the eggs are in one basket) - when it works however, it works wonderfully eg Schumacher recently, and Alan Jones way back in the early days of Williams.
Some teams let the drivers race until such time as one is the more likely to win the championship. The problem with this approach is that whilst allowing freedom of your drivers, and securing decent constructors points, a third driver can come up and steal the championship through consistency - eg Raikonnen and Vettel's first championships as a very recent example.
Each approach requires political acumen from the team to manage the ego's that are drivers. Each approach can run into pitfalls, and neither approach should not be considered the worst. They both work, and they both fail.
Some teams let the drivers race until such time as one is the more likely to win the championship. The problem with this approach is that whilst allowing freedom of your drivers, and securing decent constructors points, a third driver can come up and steal the championship through consistency - eg Raikonnen and Vettel's first championships as a very recent example.
Each approach requires political acumen from the team to manage the ego's that are drivers. Each approach can run into pitfalls, and neither approach should not be considered the worst. They both work, and they both fail.
#83
mikathegreat2
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:00 PM
Koba-f**king-yashi!!
Dan is currently playing: with himself...
"There is nothing lower than the human race except the French."
- Mark Twain
"There is nothing lower than the human race except the French."
- Mark Twain
#84
Insider
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:07 PM
BradSpeedMan, on 19 March 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:
The time for a one man band is over Sean... Finish, Nada. Nassuno. Capische. It does not work anymore in this competitive environment we have today, if you can't adapt and change then you have to die. Simples. This is not the era where Ferrari had unlimited testing capabilities neither the support of the only tyre maufacturer! Finish. Nada. Nassuno. Capische <-----Hey, I like this!
Finish. Nada. Nassuno. Capische
By all means if Ferrari should continue down this dark and gloomy road, I'll be grinning from ear to ear... Finish. Nada. Nassuno. Capische
The more I say this the more I like it!
FFS!!!!!
Finish. Nada. Nassuno. Capische
By all means if Ferrari should continue down this dark and gloomy road, I'll be grinning from ear to ear... Finish. Nada. Nassuno. Capische
The more I say this the more I like it!
FFS!!!!!
Listening to: Steve Earle/The Low Highway, Band From Rockall/Band From Rockall, Ducks Deluxe/Rockin' At The Moon
“Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain”
“Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain”
#85
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:03 PM
James Allen talking about the prospects of the Ferrari F2012:
"In the hands of Fernando Alonso it is capable of fifth place. In the hands of Felipe Massa... it's currently back in the garage."
"In the hands of Fernando Alonso it is capable of fifth place. In the hands of Felipe Massa... it's currently back in the garage."
John Henry Bonham
#86
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:35 PM
mikathegreat2, on 19 March 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:
Koba-f**king-yashi!!
Cam's got a cult following and all that, but do you really think he fits in at Ferrari? I figure it wouldn't last too long even if they wanted him. There are Ferrari guys and he's not one of them. I don't think Räikkönen really was, either, and that didn't work out at all for either party unfortunately.
I do wonder if bigger teams than Sauber ever look at him. Not so much Ferrari; they're a step down from Sauber right now since Kobayashi at least knows his team and the car well over there. But the other teams...what makes him special kind of disappears if he's in a car that qualifies toward the front where they all get spread out, right? Then it's less fun to watch the guy, and he's less of an asset to those teams than he is at the back-end of the points-paying positions.
Eric
#87
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:53 PM
Massa, on 19 March 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:
Cam's got a cult following and all that, but do you really think he fits in at Ferrari?
Dan is currently playing: with himself...
"There is nothing lower than the human race except the French."
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"There is nothing lower than the human race except the French."
- Mark Twain
#88
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Posted 20 March 2012 - 12:20 AM
Massa, on 19 March 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:
Cam's got a cult following and all that, but do you really think he fits in at Ferrari? I figure it wouldn't last too long even if they wanted him. There are Ferrari guys and he's not one of them. I don't think Räikkönen really was, either, and that didn't work out at all for either party unfortunately.
I do wonder if bigger teams than Sauber ever look at him. Not so much Ferrari; they're a step down from Sauber right now since Kobayashi at least knows his team and the car well over there. But the other teams...what makes him special kind of disappears if he's in a car that qualifies toward the front where they all get spread out, right? Then it's less fun to watch the guy, and he's less of an asset to those teams than he is at the back-end of the points-paying positions.
I do wonder if bigger teams than Sauber ever look at him. Not so much Ferrari; they're a step down from Sauber right now since Kobayashi at least knows his team and the car well over there. But the other teams...what makes him special kind of disappears if he's in a car that qualifies toward the front where they all get spread out, right? Then it's less fun to watch the guy, and he's less of an asset to those teams than he is at the back-end of the points-paying positions.
I think the problem Kobayashi has is the current rules.
In 2010 he was one of the best overtakers - alongside Hamilton. Remember his Suzuka drive? Pulled off overtake after overtake.
Now with DRS and the Pirelli tyres, both him and Hamilton have had to adapt their style. DRS hasn't made overtaking such a challenge that it used to be, and the Pirelli tyres mean they can't be as agressive as they'd like to be without burning up the tyres.
He's still good though - his drive in Melbourne was very strong. It'll be interesting to see if he and the team can put a strong season together - last season he started off quite well then endured a dry patch where he wasn't in the points. I think this year he has to improve his consistency, because on his day he is undoubtedly brilliant, but other days he's not really there.
I agree with you, I can't really see him as a big team driver at the moment. I'm not sure any of the top teams would be ready to take the risk, which is a shame as it'd be great to see what he could do in a better car.
#89
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Posted 20 March 2012 - 01:52 AM
I don't remember his Suzuka 2010 drive; I never saw it.
Anyway, you may be correct, but if DRS makes Kobayashi's ability to overtake less significant, doesn't being in a better car do the same? It's easier to overtake when you qualify worse than you should have. When you plant your Red Bull or McLaren on the front row, it's more about being able to manage a race, and that's not an area of Kobayashi's talent we've been able to scout a whole lot. Good overtakers are less of a premium the better the team you get to, and that doesn't mean that Hamilton/Alonso/Button/Vettel can't overtake, because we've seen them all do it, it just means that's not why they got their jobs.
I think he loses value in a better team.
Luckily for him, Ferrari isn't a better team.
Even luckier for him, they're going to try the same thing over and over and expect different results. Getting an offer to drive for Ferrari is like getting a date with a Kardashian...you say yes because you know the name on some strange perception it's good, but you find out pretty quickly it ain't what it's advertized as and you're messing with a weird inbred family that's got a bit too much wonkiness going on at the rear-end of the chassis for Massa to handle.
Anyway, you may be correct, but if DRS makes Kobayashi's ability to overtake less significant, doesn't being in a better car do the same? It's easier to overtake when you qualify worse than you should have. When you plant your Red Bull or McLaren on the front row, it's more about being able to manage a race, and that's not an area of Kobayashi's talent we've been able to scout a whole lot. Good overtakers are less of a premium the better the team you get to, and that doesn't mean that Hamilton/Alonso/Button/Vettel can't overtake, because we've seen them all do it, it just means that's not why they got their jobs.
I think he loses value in a better team.
Luckily for him, Ferrari isn't a better team.
Even luckier for him, they're going to try the same thing over and over and expect different results. Getting an offer to drive for Ferrari is like getting a date with a Kardashian...you say yes because you know the name on some strange perception it's good, but you find out pretty quickly it ain't what it's advertized as and you're messing with a weird inbred family that's got a bit too much wonkiness going on at the rear-end of the chassis for Massa to handle.
Eric
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Posted 20 March 2012 - 01:57 AM
And the guy who should have replaced Massa was mentioned earlier. His nation's flag would match the uniform, and his nose would match the F2012. Shame the car wouldn't have been good enough for his demonym to match his starting position. Some say he can't pick up a glass to drink, all we know is, he's Robert Kubica.
Eric
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