HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted March 20, 2012 Soooooo.....Microsoft should replace Massa? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHS18 0 Report post Posted March 20, 2012 Microsoft should sell Massa on craigslist and Ferrari should use Chrome? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted March 20, 2012 Soooooo.....Microsoft should replace Massa? That's pretty much what I understood Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Massa 0 Report post Posted March 20, 2012 I think I was trying to say that Clippo taught Massa how to drive but I'm not sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Massa 0 Report post Posted March 20, 2012 Microsoft should sell Massa on craigslist and Ferrari should use Chrome? The guy who founded craigslist is from the same place I'm from. His name is Craig. Craig's name is also Craig. He moderates the forum with me. Crazy world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted March 20, 2012 The guy who founded craigslist is from the same place I'm from. His name is Craig. Craig's name is also Craig. He moderates the forum with me. Crazy world. Ahhh, now I understand! Ok, so, about Massa and the amangement. Yes, I can see your point. But then again, I refuse to believe that they are so stupid as to keep a guy that costs them millions, wrecks every car he gets into (or alongside with) and is genetically unable to score points. Like you said, it might be a case of saying "nice doggie" while trying to find a rock big enough to throw at him (and SD reaction the moment of the clash with Massa seemed to point in that direction, with SD seemengly snapping at Smedley something), but in this case firing him would have been already justified enough not to need to resort to such forceful support. So, either they are sticking with him through the thick and thin, or they are going to fire him, yet are doing so in the most delicately possible way. In both cases it is certainly remarkable, considering how ruthless the teams (Ferrari included) have always been when it comes to kicking out some driver. Even Kimi didn't get this treatment. Here's my current theory: SD is actually Felipinho's real father. Massa Sr. is actually Montoya wearing a mask of Felipe Massa and a pillow to enlarge his belly...no, wait...scrap the pillow... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Massa 0 Report post Posted March 20, 2012 Well, they did try to get Massa to quit the team by giving him this monstrosity: http://blog.caranddriver.com/alonso-and-massa-receive-matching-ferrari-red-jeep-grand-cherokee-srt8s/ I would have walked away... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaster 7 Report post Posted March 20, 2012 "Please do not confuse this with news. It is merely something that happened, about which we’ll make the following comments" Love it, that should be used more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted March 20, 2012 How many cars do these guys get as a gift? What's with that? "Hey, he is an F1 driver, what could he possibly need? Oh, I know, a car!" That's so stupid! BTW, I wonder why do I get all these soapbars as gifts... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted March 20, 2012 I thought I had posted about the matter. I like ie8 and ie9. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Piotr 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2012 I am completely confused nand have a headache. We were talking about Kubi's come back, right??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted March 21, 2012 Ahhh, now I understand! Ok, so, about Massa and the amangement. Yes, I can see your point. But then again, I refuse to believe that they are so stupid as to keep a guy that costs them millions, wrecks every car he gets into (or alongside with) and is genetically unable to score points. Like you said, it might be a case of saying "nice doggie" while trying to find a rock big enough to throw at him (and SD reaction the moment of the clash with Massa seemed to point in that direction, with SD seemengly snapping at Smedley something), but in this case firing him would have been already justified enough not to need to resort to such forceful support. So, either they are sticking with him through the thick and thin, or they are going to fire him, yet are doing so in the most delicately possible way. In both cases it is certainly remarkable, considering how ruthless the teams (Ferrari included) have always been when it comes to kicking out some driver. Even Kimi didn't get this treatment. Here's my current theory: SD is actually Felipinho's real father. Massa Sr. is actually Montoya wearing a mask of Felipe Massa and a pillow to enlarge his belly...no, wait...scrap the pillow... u still don't believe my theory of 2008? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted March 21, 2012 Well, seems Andres is not alone in making this suggestion, he seems to be right with alot of things nowadays... Report links Trulli with Massa’s Ferrari race seat One race into the 2012 season, the Italian press has already named a candidate for beleaguered Ferrari driver Felipe Massa’s seat.On notice by the famous team and with an expiring contract, the Brazilian driver had a nightmare 2012 opener in Australia. Mika Salo, the 1999 Ferrari substitute driver, told broadcaster MTV3 that Massa’s performance, “compared to Alonso’s, was very poor”. Autosprint, the Italian weekly, has suggested the out-of-work grand prix winner Jarno Trulli is available to step in immediately to replace Massa. The Maranello based team appeared to immediately react in the form of a report on its official website, acknowledging its 30-year-old driver “has certainly been the target of criticism” after Melbourne. Indeed, so poor was Massa’s performance last weekend that Ferrari has agreed to scrap his chassis and replace it with a brand new one for Sepang, despite the one-week turnaround between the flyaway back-to-back races. “This choice was taken to clear up any doubts about the unusual performance of his car during the weekend at Albert Park,” said the team. Ferrari also revealed that team boss Stefano Domenicali and technical director Pat Fry returned to Maranello after Australia rather than make the much-shorter trek to Malaysia. “The fifth position of Fernando Alonso in Australia was a distortion,” argued former Ferrari engineer Joan Villadelprat in the Spanish newspaper El Pais. “Actually, I see a much harsher reality for them.”Another Spanish newspaper, AS, reports that Ferrari is pressing the throttle on a ‘plan B’, involving a substantial redesign of the F2012 chassis for China that will involve a new FIA crash test. F1Zone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted March 21, 2012 Won't be Trulli - that's just Italian nationalism wanting an Italian in Formula One. Why pay out Massa early, and then pay for another driver that would demand seven-digits. Doesn't make economical sense, and really that's all it comes down to. Massa obviously has a pretty good "can't fire me" clause in his contract, else they would have ditched him last year. The more I think about it, the more Massa is likely to stay for 2012. However, the longer he stay's, the lower his stock will become, certainly if his form continues as it did at Australia. He may find it hard to land another seat next year because of it too. Maybe he should just jump ship before being pushed? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaster 7 Report post Posted March 21, 2012 There's no such thing as a can't fire me clause, that's the last of the reasons Ferrari keep him. In any case if his performance remains so poor they would surely have reasonable grounds to do it. They keep him because they are sentimental/have some kind of poor judgement about him. They don't have economical sense, they paid Raikkonen millions not to drive for them for a year, a crazy decision. I don't think Massa is on anywhere near as much money, so the money/contract issue isn't the thing keeping him around. Replacing him with Trulli would be fairly pointless and I hope that doesn't happen, although I don't have too much faith that they wouldn't do something like that. I think in the end they will probably keep Massa for the whole season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna's Ghost 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2012 If Massa doesn't perform in the first half of the season then he will be replaced at some point during the second half, that is assuming that the Melbourne pace is an accurate measure of the performace level of the car (if the car is worse then more individuals than Massa will be heading out of Maranello). The media pressure will be so great that Ferrari will have to react. Massa's contact is up at the end of the season so it's not as though they have to pay him a great deal more. Who will they get to replace him? Short term it will be one of the STR boys of last year. Longer than that; if Perez has a good season and regularly out performs his team mate then I think he is almost certainly going to get the drive. He can bring Carlos Slim with him. So you'll have the wealthiest man in the world with the most prestigous car brand in the world. Nice ring to that. Outside bet would be Webber for 1 season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yurp 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2012 I think I was trying to say that Clippo taught Massa how to drive but I'm not sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted March 21, 2012 There's no such thing as a can't fire me clause, that's the last of the reasons Ferrari keep him. In any case if his performance remains so poor they would surely have reasonable grounds to do it. They keep him because they are sentimental/have some kind of poor judgement about him. They don't have economical sense, they paid Raikkonen millions not to drive for them for a year, a crazy decision. I don't think Massa is on anywhere near as much money, so the money/contract issue isn't the thing keeping him around. Replacing him with Trulli would be fairly pointless and I hope that doesn't happen, although I don't have too much faith that they wouldn't do something like that. I think in the end they will probably keep Massa for the whole season. Personally, I think that there's no such thing as silly sentimentalism or poor judgement at THIS level of underperformance. Silly sentimentalism was McLaren overprotecting Lewis when a godd old slap on the face and a "Man it up!" shout would have worked better to bring a good driver back to the fight. By that time Ferrari in the persons of LdM and SD were telling everybody how great Alonso was and how close was Massa to be sent home with an F in his report card. So there's obviously no unconditional love for him, nor ignorance of his untenable level of performance. It is (and historically always were) a team very sensitive to the media and public pressure. And the pressure they receive is enormous (for the record, they consider "people and media" only the Italian ones). When everybody else is aking for Massa's head, whether justifiably so or not, and being a rather cheap scapegoat for the current crysis at Maranello it is still remarkable that they keep sticking so strongly with Felipinho, even knowing that any pressure that they don't re direct against Massa will explode right in Sd and LdM hand (I am not saying that this should be the RIGHT course of action, mind you, but the most logical from Ldm and SD) There's a hint of what is happening on Brad's quoted article when they say “This choice was taken to clear up any doubts about the unusual performance of his car during the weekend at Albert Park,”. Knowing that the guy can't be replaced before Malaysia, anyways, they are using him as a guinea pig and, probably, to lay as much blame on the failure to perform from the teams' side as possible. They know that so far, Alonso has been more than flawless and the pits as well (were the fastest pitstops consistently during the whole Austrailan GP), so they are quite short on candidates for the public bonfire that is being built right now...except for LdM or SD themselves... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted March 21, 2012 quite simply LdM IS FIAT/FERRARI , so he ain't going anywhere!! This is the man who thanked MS for all his hard work by shoving him out of the door, then thanked KR for his WDC by doing the same. I'm not too sure about SD, but if LdM likes him, then that's that!! You may want to refer to my posting on the fuel blending to help understand why the last year has been such a bad one for Ferrari development. Massa wiil stay for the duration of 2012! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted March 21, 2012 It is (and historically always were) a team very sensitive to the media and public pressure. And the pressure they receive is enormous (for the record, they consider "people and media" only the Italian ones). When everybody else is aking for Massa's head, whether justifiably so or not, and being a rather cheap scapegoat for the current crysis at Maranello it is still remarkable that they keep sticking so strongly with Felipinho, even knowing that any pressure that they don't re direct against Massa will explode right in Sd and LdM hand (I am not saying that this should be the RIGHT course of action, mind you, but the most logical from Ldm and SD) Even that (flying out a new chassis for the guy) creates more pressure, what are they gonna say when Massa performs just as bad as he did in Melbourne... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted March 21, 2012 Even that (flying out a new chassis for the guy) creates more pressure, what are they gonna say when Massa performs just as bad as he did in Melbourne... That is why I quoted your previous post, you silly man! What they would do is say "See? It's not that the car is so bad. We gave him our newest chassis and he still sucks!" then point the finger at Felipinho and hope that everybody will be busy enough lynching Massa to give them a few weeks of respite to focus on the big issue: how close are they to become this year's Toyota. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted March 21, 2012 quite simply LdM IS FIAT/FERRARI , so he ain't going anywhere!! This is the man who thanked MS for all his hard work by shoving him out of the door, then thanked KR for his WDC by doing the same. next on the list... Alonso will shove himself out... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaster 7 Report post Posted March 21, 2012 Personally, I think that there's no such thing as silly sentimentalism or poor judgement at THIS level of underperformance. Silly sentimentalism was McLaren overprotecting Lewis when a godd old slap on the face and a "Man it up!" shout would have worked better to bring a good driver back to the fight. By that time Ferrari in the persons of LdM and SD were telling everybody how great Alonso was and how close was Massa to be sent home with an F in his report card. So there's obviously no unconditional love for him, nor ignorance of his untenable level of performance. It is (and historically always were) a team very sensitive to the media and public pressure. And the pressure they receive is enormous (for the record, they consider "people and media" only the Italian ones). When everybody else is aking for Massa's head, whether justifiably so or not, and being a rather cheap scapegoat for the current crysis at Maranello it is still remarkable that they keep sticking so strongly with Felipinho, even knowing that any pressure that they don't re direct against Massa will explode right in Sd and LdM hand (I am not saying that this should be the RIGHT course of action, mind you, but the most logical from Ldm and SD) There's a hint of what is happening on Brad's quoted article when they say “This choice was taken to clear up any doubts about the unusual performance of his car during the weekend at Albert Park,”. Knowing that the guy can't be replaced before Malaysia, anyways, they are using him as a guinea pig and, probably, to lay as much blame on the failure to perform from the teams' side as possible. They know that so far, Alonso has been more than flawless and the pits as well (were the fastest pitstops consistently during the whole Austrailan GP), so they are quite short on candidates for the public bonfire that is being built right now...except for LdM or SD themselves... No, I sort of agree. All I mean to say when I said it was 'sentimental' is that clearly there's something other than logic influencing their decision to continue employing him. As an oversimplification, it could be some kind of sentimentality or emotion, they obviously liked him a lot and don't want to embarrass him... if Jean Todt was still involved I'd postulate it was because of that connection. Whatever the mixture of reasons it doesn't really matter, it shows bad management because there isn't any good reason for him to still be there this year. Arguably not even last year as at the end of 2010 the points deficit to Alonso was over a 100 points, a huge gap between team mates especially for a 'top team'. Even if people wanted to say it was because Alonso needs a non-threatening team mate, there are plenty of drivers between Massa's level of performance for the past two years and Alonso's level. So you could hire a much better no.2 (anybody other than Hamilton, Vettel or Button) who would score points for the team while still not being able to rattle Alonso's cage, if that's the theory some people want to believe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted March 21, 2012 No, I sort of agree. All I mean to say when I said it was 'sentimental' is that clearly there's something other than logic influencing their decision to continue employing him. As an oversimplification, it could be some kind of sentimentality or emotion, they obviously liked him a lot and don't want to embarrass him... if Jean Todt was still involved I'd postulate it was because of that connection. Whatever the mixture of reasons it doesn't really matter, it shows bad management because there isn't any good reason for him to still be there this year. Arguably not even last year as at the end of 2010 the points deficit to Alonso was over a 100 points, a huge gap between team mates especially for a 'top team'. Even if people wanted to say it was because Alonso needs a non-threatening team mate, there are plenty of drivers between Massa's level of performance for the past two years and Alonso's level. So you could hire a much better no.2 (anybody other than Hamilton, Vettel or Button) who would score points for the team while still not being able to rattle Alonso's cage, if that's the theory some people want to believe. Yup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted March 21, 2012 there is NO benefit to be had from changing driver personal at Fiat this year. That's why there's about as much chance of Argentina hosting a grand prix on the Falkland Islands as there is Massa going anywhere soon. Replacing Massa will not make for a better car - the end! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
