17 replies to this topic

[HandyNZL]

Now here is one rumour that would be great to be true.  Honda, making a turbo unit for McLaren....I'm getting misty eyed already.

Rumours that Honda is already at Woking, beavering away.  Rumours that Mercedes is snatching Hamilton and Paddy Lowe.

We can't stop with two out of three being true!!

It's a risk to take, but the new engine rules are more inline with Honda's capabilities (V8's are not).  Go the VTEC Honda McLaren!! zoom zoom!

[Massa]

Rumors have Gilles Simon working on it as we speak.

Honda power would be the easiest way for McLaren to become my favorite team.

Honda has two turbocharged 6-cylinder engines in racing that I know of.  One's in IndyCar (2.2L turbo V6), the other's in LMP2 (2.8L twin turbo V6).  The LMP2 engine is also in the Super GT300 CR-Z, I believe.  Obviously, neither will be of any use for F1 development.  Just to point out that they're interested in that engine range.

[HandyNZL]

They're only really interested in small, compact, efficient engines.  Always have been.  And their engine was the class of F1 back in the last turbo era, so there is no reason to think it wouldn't be again.

[The Shadow]

This is by far my favourite rumour in the past few years. I became a F1 fan because of McLaren Honda, and that subsequently got me interested in mechanical engineering.

Now that this may be true, excitement can be barely contained.

I wonder if they can run with the same colour schemes as the 80's/90's now without tobacco sponsorships, given that the base colour would be white since that is Honda's/Japanese traditional racing colour

I bet Hammy's kicking himself silly

[HandyNZL]

The red and white was purely Marlboro.  Williams and Lotus both had Honda power at one stage, and neither turned white.

McLaren would presumably stay silver and Vodafone red.

Relive the memories:

[HandyNZL]

The Shadow, on 04 March 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

This is by far my favourite rumour in the past few years. I became a F1 fan because of McLaren Honda, and that subsequently got me interested in mechanical engineering.

Now that this may be true, excitement can be barely contained.

I wonder if they can run with the same colour schemes as the 80's/90's now without tobacco sponsorships, given that the base colour would be white since that is Honda's/Japanese traditional racing colour

I bet Hammy's kicking himself silly

Nope.  He's patting his doggy woggy, Roscoe

[Quiet One]

Wonderful memories. And we will have them again! Those cars! And Prost-Senna!!! No, wait...it's Button-Perez now...

Errr...I don't think so.

[mikathegreat2]

First Williams-Renault & now McLaren-Honda? All we need now is tobacco sponsorship back & the 2015 F1 Nostalgic season is complete!

[mikathegreat2]

Quiet One, on 04 March 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

Wonderful memories. And we will have them again! Those cars! And Prost-Senna!!! No, wait...it's Button-Perez now...

Errr...I don't think so.

There's still hope for the Prost-Senna partnership to return in the form of Nico & Bruno. But they're busy racing in sports cars cos they're probably not good enough for F1.

[HandyNZL]

Prost's kid is pretty good.  Though I'm more keen to see young Sainz make it.

[Rainmaster]

Well, if they are working on an engine then I would imagine it could only be for 2015. Mostly because up until quite recently there's been quite a lot of instability (caused by Bernie, mostly) about the engine regs, and there still isn't a new Concorde Agreement signed. So it's hard to see a serious company like Honda entering under those conditions, especially one so conservative. It has stabilised a bit now though, and it's very clear the engine rules are happening; so they could have started developing an engine recently. If that's true, they'd be at a serious disadvantage in terms of development time scale to get an engine ready for 2014; the other manufacturers have been working for a long time already and have invested millions. So, 2015, maybe.

Other issue worth thinking about before jizzing in our collective pants, is that if they want to enter the sport presumably they will want and need to supply more than one team (otherwise they will be at a disadvantage both economically and developmentally). At the moment, I don't see how they would get enough teams to make it worthwhile or successful, even if we think Cosworth are quitting the sport post 2013, because a lot of the teams have deep connections with their current engine partners/suppliers.

Still, they would be a very popular addition to the grid and I think they've got a great deal to give as an engine supplier rather than as an outright team - I'd like to see them (though I can't) adopt the Renault model and be equally successful.

[HandyNZL]

If you build it, they will come....

If Honda is there, then other teams will want Honda.  They have a track record in F1 Turbo engines.  Force India would certainly go for Honda (remember that they have Merc's by virtue of McLaren).  And likely Caterham.

That's my bet.

And, I don't think Honda would need all that time to be honest.  As Eric rightly pointed out, they already have two turbo engines out there racing.  There is enoug cross-over, and we are talking about McLaren whom just so happen to have a few Mules aka P1 cars to test engines in rather, er, swiftly.

[Insider]

I am currently in Sweden earning a crust but I have kept in touch. This Honda thing intrigues me. They have a great pedigree on the engine front and they love Jenson. I agree that the Concorde nonsense will not see them step forward until 2015. Have Mercedes really  delivered? Renault have been the dominant force in the past three seasons and there has been little improvement from Merc it seems. It's a great pairing for me.

[Rainmaster]

It is being consistently reported now that this is a done deal for 2015. That being the case, the only interesting question to me is which other teams will take a Honda engine (I'm assuming they must at least want other teams, if not need, considering how much these engines cost, and that other teams will want them).

The strongest candidates as far as I can tell are Marussia and Force India, followed by perhaps Lotus (these seem to be the three teams with the weakest connection with their engine partner). Williams, Toro Rosso and Caterham can probably be ruled out because of ties with Renault. Caterham have very strong marketing ties and are working on road car projects with Renault; Williams/Renault are also apparently working on a marketing campaign on the road side; and Toro Rosso, though currently Ferrari powered, are expected to want the same engines as their big sister, Red Bull. Sauber are tied up with Ferrari and that doesn't look like changing. Lotus are considered unstable by some because of the instability of the team's finances and their licensing agreement for the naming rights which runs out in the not too distant future (end of 2015).

Whatever happens, if we remain at 11 teams and have another engine supplier enter, somebody is going to suffer here, even if Cosworth leave (because supplying one team isn't viable). They all (except Cosworth) supply at least 3 teams at the moment. If Honda enter, and even if Renault goes down to supplying 3 teams from 4, somebody is going to be left supplying only 2 teams compared to everybody else supplying 3. I'm guessing they won't be too happy about that.

[HandyNZL]

Ferrari will live without supplying six engines a race.  They get more than the engine sales in special F1 funds anyways.

[Senna's Ghost]

Don't go back to your old girlfriends, it's never quite the same.

All those remembering the McLaren Honda dominance of 1988 and beyond should remember that Honda began with Spirit back in 1983 and it was only at the back end of 1985 that they started to show their might.

Could McLaren afford a couple of seasons where Honda caught up to the pack?

[HandyNZL]

Oh but the eightes were thirty years ago...and Honda small block engines are the bee's knees now...not so much then....although that said the engine in my 86 Prelude went and went and went and went and went and went and went and went and went and went and went and went and went and went...

Sadly the same could not be said for the super sticky Michelins that were on it when I bought it.  They lasted six months, but boy oh boy, did that car go around 35kph corners at 100kph or what?  Vrrrrrrrooooooommmmmm!!!

They essentially wouldn't be a year behind, as if the rumours are true, they are already testing.  They will have a year on the sidelines, yes, but that is a year to iron out the bugs where no-one can see the failures, and then they hit 2015 with a strong and reliable unit, plus their homologation will be a year later than the rest, and as such, be able to take the time to extract more power and torque from areas that the rest won't be able to as they get blueprinted and stuck as is.

And at the end of the day, there have been several engines over the years that just came out firing on all cylinders from day one; the Cosworth double four valve being the most well known in that regard.

And then McLaren today is vastly different to McLaren in the mid-80's too.  It's no longer just a race team.  They are car manufacturers.  They are one of the most technically astute teams in F1.  If you were going to pick a team to match up with, you'd aim for them first, and it looks as though this is what Honda has done.

Of course, you are also basing your argument on the fact that everyone else's engines are going to be good, great, or better. Who is to say that the other engines will not be pudding next year?  The Renault might be useless...or the Mercedes...or the Ferrari (I'm thinking most likely them).  Then it will be them catching up....

Anyways, proof will, as always, be in the pudding.

[Rainmaster]

If Honda enter in 2015 then I guess that they will have the benefit of learning everything about Mercedes' 2014 engine throughout the year, because it will be in the Mclaren. I think if they entered in 2014 that would probably leave them at a disadvantage, but in 2015 not so much.

http://www.autosport...rce=mostpopular

Edited by Rainmaster, 16 March 2013 - 07:16 PM.