308 replies to this topic

[Ctrl300]

Schumikonen, on Aug 15 2006, 07:24 PM, said:

When Senna died his Williams was the best car still, and he lost the firrt 3 races to Schumi with a Benneton Ford Setec, for whatever reason Schumi was beating him that year, Williams was so good that Damon hill won a championship with it and he was everything but a superdriver, he was just a test driver that found a place because of Senna's death, he got a great car in everyone of his championships, he won with Lotus, Olivier Panis won in Monaco with a Prost, anybody can win a race one day, Jean Alessi won a race on his birthday, by the way, Button just won one race, that doesn't mean anything.

Senna couldn't keep winning with Mclaren, switch to Williams and he was still loosing there, and at that time Schumi was winning and 12 years later he is still winning.

Schummi is Senna's hero.

Do you smoke crack when you watch races?

Do you seriously believe that the Benetton was a junk-mobile but won the championship twice due to Meatface's increadible skill?
If his skills where so fantactic why did he have to resort to bumper-car tactics in 94 and 97?
Seriously, you're off your face mate. Better go slow on the  

[Wez]

Ctrl300, on Aug 15 2006, 11:51 AM, said:

Do you smoke crack when you watch races?

Do you seriously believe that the Benetton was a junk-mobile but won the championship twice due to Meatface's increadible skill?
If his skills where so fantactic why did he have to resort to bumper-car tactics in 94 and 97?
Seriously, you're off your face mate. Better go slow on the  

I was thinking the same thing!

That fact the average drivers like Hebert, Irvine, & Barrichello won races despite not been allowed to beat their team mate, show how quick most of Meatfaces's cars were!

But never mind.... Have another sniff/puff/or what ever else you doing with it and continue to talk sh!t.

[SchumiDeSuck]

Schumikonen, on Aug 15 2006, 08:51 AM, said:

When Schumi broke his leg Ervine didn't win the champioship and Schumi came to play a second driver roll, remember Malassia first race, so what you said is very hard to probe.

In Schumi first year in F1 1992 I mean, he beat Senna, and he was beattind him in 1994 whe he die.

Schumi forever the best.

Please be reminded that Schumi came to play as a second driver roll for only 2 races (Malaysia and Japan) in 1999. Should have his leg broken earlier.

Anyway, if Ferrari could make it a Kimi-Schumi lineup for 2007, I wished Kimi to beat Schumi all the way.

Maybe this time he would use his 'KO-opponent tactics' on his own teammate.  

[Autumnpuma]

SchumiDeSuck, on Aug 15 2006, 07:12 PM, said:

Please be reminded that Schumi came to play as a second driver roll for only 2 races (Malaysia and Japan) in 1999. Should have his leg broken earlier.

Anyway, if Ferrari could make it a Kimi-Schumi lineup for 2007, I wished Kimi to beat Schumi all the way.

Maybe this time he would use his 'KO-opponent tactics' on his own teammate.  

I would not expect miracles from Kimi in his first year at Ferrari (if he ends up there). He will be amazingly fast on occasion, but overall he will be learning the team. Very few drivers are quicker than their established teammates in their first year. One thing Kimi will not do, however, is support Michael in a title-bid. I don't think that mentality is in him, and I applaud him that. If Kimi ends up as Michael's teammate, expect a fair fight.

[Schumikonen]

Wez, on Aug 15 2006, 06:27 AM, said:

I was thinking the same thing!

That fact the average drivers like Hebert, Irvine, & Barrichello won races despite not been allowed to beat their team mate, show how quick most of Meatfaces's cars were!

But never mind.... Have another sniff/puff/or what ever else you doing with it and continue to talk sh!t.

Who was Michael Schumacher in 1994 to let him do what he wants in the team, by that time he got just two won races, he was still nobody, he won because he was good and that's it.

Benneton was not a top team before Michael Schumacher, that was a different story in 1995 when they were racing with a renault engine, and I don't blame you because you don't remember these thing, people use to forget very quickly, but you can read, all this is written and the result are at your hands, if you want.

[Autumnpuma]

Schumikonen, on Aug 15 2006, 07:46 PM, said:

Who was Michael Schumacher in 1994 to let him do what he wants in the team, by that time he got just two won races, he was still nobody, he won because he was good and that's it.

Benneton was not a top team before Michael Schumacher, that was a different story in 1995 when they were racing with a renault engine, and I don't blame you because you don't remember these thing, people use to forget very quickly, but you can read, all this is written and the result are at your hands, if you want.

Schumacher was not the major reason for Benneton's rise. I would credit the aero more than the driver. I believe the raised nose on the Benneton did wonders for the airflow.

[Schumikonen]

Ctrl300, on Aug 15 2006, 05:51 AM, said:

Do you seriously believe that the Benetton was a junk-mobile but won the championship twice due to Meatface's increadible skill?

Do you have in mind what year was Senna disqualified when he did the same that you are talking about here?
I remember that it was in Japan and that he crash with Prost, and he lost tha championship because of that.

And then he did it again another yaer but he got enough point to win the cahmpionship that time and become champion like that.

I think that when senna did that schumi was not in F1, I think that schumi learned from the master.

If you need more details about this just ask me, but I think you don't need them because you don't smoke crack like me when you see races.

Schumikonen, on Aug 16 2006, 04:44 AM, said:

Do you have in mind what year was Senna disqualified when he did the same that you are talking about here?
I remember that it was in Japan and that he crash with Prost, and he lost tha championship because of that.

And then he did it again another yaer but he got enough point to win the cahmpionship that time and become champion like that.

I think that when senna did that schumi was not in F1, I think that schumi learned from the master.

If you need more details about this just ask me, but I think you don't need them because you don't smoke crack like me when you see races.

(I quote the wrong part on purpuose, to support the crack part"

[Wez]

Before I take any further part in this ridiculous argument, I need to know exactly how old you were when you "watched" Shumacher winning in early 1994!

My guess is about 3!

[BradSpeedMan]

Autumnpuma, on Aug 16 2006, 04:24 AM, said:

Very few drivers are quicker than their established teammates in their first year.

I can see you throwing this excuse if Kimi stays and kick Alonso's a##....

[Schumikonen]

Wez, on Aug 16 2006, 05:36 AM, said:

Before I take any further part in this ridiculous argument, I need to know exactly how old you were when you "watched" Shumacher winning in early 1994!

My guess is about 3!

It doesn't matter how old I was what is important is the fact that senna did the same that Michael does and I see a lot o people talking about senna like if he is God.

That's is what driver do, try to win a any expenses.

So it was written...

[Ctrl300]

Schumikonen, on Aug 17 2006, 12:40 PM, said:

It doesn't matter how old I was (I was not born yet), what is important is the fact that senna did the same that Michael does and I see a lot o people talking about senna like if he is God.

That's is what driver do, try to win a any expenses.

So it was written...

Still can afford the dope on your weekly allowanse I see...

Schu is a notorious and proven cheat. What Senna did to Prost and vice versa cannot be explained in the same relative terms as the way Schu bumped Hill and JV (If you know nothing of the rivalry of Prost and Senna I suggest you look up the tread in this section. BTW Prost is the all time best).

And no, bumping competitors out is not what drivers do to win. If that was the case we would see them racing tanks.

[Autumnpuma]

Ctrl300, on Aug 16 2006, 07:53 PM, said:

...BTW Prost is the all time best).

Ctrl300, on Aug 16 2006, 07:53 PM, said:

And no, bumping competitors out is not what drivers do to win. If that was the case we would see them racing tanks.

Or NASCAR.

[Ctrl300]

Autumnpuma, on Aug 17 2006, 02:27 PM, said:

Or NASCAR.

If one take a look at the NASCAR's they do resemble tanks, both upclose and from a distance

[AutoRacer5]

Ctrl300, on Aug 16 2006, 09:53 PM, said:

Still can afford the dope on your weekly allowanse I see...

Schu is a notorious and proven cheat. What Senna did to Prost and vice versa cannot be explained in the same relative terms as the way Schu bumped Hill and JV (If you know nothing of the rivalry of Prost and Senna I suggest you look up the tread in this section. BTW Prost is the all time best).

And no, bumping competitors out is not what drivers do to win. If that was the case we would see them racing tanks.

And you say that someone ELSE is smoking the pot, eh?

[Wez]

Ctrl300, on Aug 17 2006, 04:53 AM, said:

And no, bumping competitors out is not what drivers do to win. If that was the case we would see them racing tanks.

Since im not arguing with the 13 year old kid on dope any more...
Yes Ctrl300, the Senna/Prost incidents were very different... Just to show us Shumcher is still a cheat after all these years, he pulled a new stunt in Monaco Qualifying this year, and then in Hungary tried all race to bash Alonso, then Fisichello, then Dela Rosa, Then finally succeded on Heidfeld who like JV in 97 thankfully came out tops!

One more question I would like to know the answer too.... If Shucmacher is so good why does he have it written in his Ferrari contract that no team mate can race him on track?

[Ctrl300]

Wez, on Aug 17 2006, 06:22 PM, said:

Since im not arguing with the 13 year old kid on dope any more...
Yes Ctrl300, the Senna/Prost incidents were very different... Just to show us Shumcher is still a cheat after all these years, he pulled a new stunt in Monaco Qualifying this year, and then in Hungary tried all race to bash Alonso, then Fisichello, then Dela Rosa, Then finally succeded on Heidfeld who like JV in 97 thankfully came out tops!

One more question I would like to know the answer too.... If Shucmacher is so good why does he have it written in his Ferrari contract that no team mate can race him on track?

You are qiute right. He has never had a truly competitive team mate, and has subequently walzed over the ones he have had making him look very good. He is not giving Massa the hiding many would have anticipated which shows that he is not as great as he ones was or that he never was that great.  
He is ultra competitive, and the reason for his policy is that if the car is good he wants to be the one with a chance to walk away with the honours.

[Schumikonen]

Wez, on Aug 17 2006, 04:22 AM, said:

Since im not arguing with the 13 year old kid on dope any more...
Yes Ctrl300, the Senna/Prost incidents were very different... Just to show us Shumcher is still a cheat after all these years, he pulled a new stunt in Monaco Qualifying this year, and then in Hungary tried all race to bash Alonso, then Fisichello, then Dela Rosa, Then finally succeded on Heidfeld who like JV in 97 thankfully came out tops!

One more question I would like to know the answer too.... If Shucmacher is so good why does he have it written in his Ferrari contract that no team mate can race him on track?

Do you know what number one means in a team?

Why those Schumi team mates that you refer to, do not take always the place below Schumi in every race, I mean, the contrac say they can not race against Schumi, but they can be closer as posible and they don't do that eather, so I don't beleive they can beat Schumi, they never were a threat to Schumi, and they don't even win those races were Schumi is a DNF, so the contrac may be a little different from what you say, or they can not really be at Schumi's level a the race track.

Now it's up to you to tell me, the truth about this.

Ctrl300, on Aug 17 2006, 04:39 AM, said:

You are qiute right. He has never had a truly competitive team mate, and has subequently walzed over the ones he have had making him look very good. He is not giving Massa the hiding many would have anticipated which shows that he is not as great as he ones was or that he never was that great.  
He is ultra competitive, and the reason for his policy is that if the car is good he wants to be the one with a chance to walk away with the honours.

Ferrari is a so ever good car, that before Schumi they spend 19 years trying in vain to get the champioship and they couldn't get it, and you know, they had a fortune teller, that told them that they become this good if they give that kind of contract to Schumi, please, what are you thinking.

Why Alboreto, Alessi or Berger didn't win a championship in those so good Ferraris? don't you say that the car is the good one.

Sorprised? There's no more blind...

[Ctrl300]

Of course he should get credit for making the car more competitive, but you missed my point. He wanted the clause in his contract so that if or when the car was/became good he would be the one to get the honour and not some team mate whom in MS's opinion did not deserve anything but the occasional glory when he (MS) had mishaps.

[Schumikonen]

Ctrl300, on Aug 17 2006, 04:59 AM, said:

Of course he should get credit for making the car more competitive, but you missed my point. He wanted the clause in his contract so that if or when the car was/became good he would be the one to get the honour and not some team mate whom in MS's opinion did not deserve anything but the occasional glory when he (MS) had mishaps.

You said it all, if he is making the car more competive he is the one who should take advantage of that.
I think that every team wants to win, if Ferrari knows that another driver can beat Michael and can do a better job than him why would they stop him from doing what they are looking for?

[nojvnof1]

Quote

When Senna died his Williams was the best car still

No it wasn't.

Quote

Williams was so good that Damon hill won a championship with it

That was 2 years later.

Quote

he got a great car in everyone of his championships, he won with Lotus, Olivier Panis won in Monaco with a Prost, anybody can win a race one day, Jean Alessi won a race on his birthday, by the way, Button just won one race, that doesn't mean anything

He won more than one race with Lotus plus took the car, which was far inferior than the Williams and McLaren close to the title.

Quote

Schummi is Senna's hero.

Suuuuurrrreeee he is.

[Wez]

nojvnof1, on Aug 18 2006, 10:41 AM, said:

No it wasn't.
That was 2 years later.
He won more than one race with Lotus plus took the car, which was far inferior than the Williams and McLaren close to the title.
Suuuuurrrreeee he is.

Thank you, nojvnof1... Exactly right.
Senna also pushed Prost for the championship driving a car that was light years behind both Prosts Williams & Schumachers Benetton in 1993.... But since Schumikonen was only about 2 then, that probably doesnt count

[nojvnof1]

[Schumikonen]

nojvnof1, on Aug 18 2006, 04:41 AM, said:

No it wasn't.
That was 2 years later.
He won more than one race with Lotus plus took the car, which was far inferior than the Williams and McLaren close to the title.
Suuuuurrrreeee he is.

Williams wans't he best car at that moment you said, now I know who is smoking crack.
Can you tell me when Mansell and Prostwon thier championship with Willimas?
Let me help you I think it was on the two previeous years at Senna's death.
Can you tell me why FIA ban the electronic aids at that time 1993? maybe you don't remember that they did it just becuase Williams was unbeatable.

You need to read more, watch some videos, and stop believing everything you read in forums.

Willimas just lost to Benneton beacuse they didn't have a real driver in the team, they were fighting just beacuse their car was so good, that the truth. believe it or not.

Wez, on Aug 18 2006, 04:59 AM, said:

Thank you, nojvnof1... Exactly right.
Senna also pushed Prost for the championship driving a car that was light years behind both Prosts Williams & Schumachers Benetton in 1993.... But since Schumikonen was only about 2 then, that probably doesnt count

Please stop smoking those thing, they can kill you.
Mclaren was one of the tops team in that time, that why Senna, Prost and Nikki Lauda won seven world champioship, please read cause don't remember or Do I have to post a list of the past championships in here so you can know.

[Ctrl300]

Schumikonen, on Aug 19 2006, 01:14 PM, said:

Williams wans't he best car at that moment you said, now I know who is smoking crack.
Can you tell me when Mansell and Prostwon thier championship with Willimas?
Let me help you I think it was on the two previeous years at Senna's death.
Can you tell me why FIA ban the electronic aids at that time 1993? maybe you don't remember that they did it just becuase Williams was unbeatable.

You need to read more, watch some videos, and stop believing everything you read in forums.

Willimas just lost to Benneton beacuse they didn't have a real driver in the team, they were fighting just beacuse their car was so good, that the truth. believe it or not.
Please stop smoking those thing, they can kill you.
Mclaren was one of the tops team in that time, that why Senna, Prost and Nikki Lauda won seven world champioship, please read cause don't remember or Do I have to post a list of the past championships in here so you can know.

To say Damon Hill was not a top driver is beyond hilarious. He only lost the 94 championship by one point, and that was after Schu wrecked his car while he was passing him for the lead and what would have been the deserved title. He finished runner up in 95, and in 96 he won it, at the ripe old age of 36.

You seem to be dragging all types of F1 periods into comparison in order to defend your driver. Remember, during the 80's and 90's things changed a lot. And in Schus defense he has managed to win no matter what they have been throwing at him during his carreer. But he is a ruthless competitor, which is why people hate (or dislike) him. No one is questioning his talent, its just that he has, in many F1 fans opinion, brought F1 into disrepute by his on track behaviour. Also, many question his clause of not having a potent team mate, which has resulted in his true talent not being measured as he has not been forced to face a Prost, Senna, Hill or Kimi in the same machinery.

[Schumikonen]

Ctrl300, on Aug 19 2006, 03:45 AM, said:

To say Damon Hill was not a top driver is beyond hilarious. He only lost the 94 championship by one point, and that was after Schu wrecked his car while he was passing him for the lead and what would have been the deserved title. He finished runner up in 95, and in 96 he won it, at the ripe old age of 36.

You seem to be dragging all types of F1 periods into comparison in order to defend your driver. Remember, during the 80's and 90's things changed a lot. And in Schus defense he has managed to win no matter what they have been throwing at him during his carreer. But he is a ruthless competitor, which is why people hate (or dislike) him. No one is questioning his talent, its just that he has, in many F1 fans opinion, brought F1 into disrepute by his on track behaviour. Also, many question his clause of not having a potent team mate, which has resulted in his true talent not being measured as he has not been forced to face a Prost, Senna, Hill or Kimi in the same machinery.

Hill did what he did just because of the Williams that he was driving, and that's it, He is the only driver that lost a championship in that almighty Williams that saw Mansell 1992, Prost 1993, Hill 1996 and Villenueve 1997 winning, he does not deserve to be called a top driver and you know that, Senna was a top driver, like Prost, Mansell, Piquet, Lauda but Damon hill does not belong to that kind of drivers.

Just take a look at how many years he had that Williams and he just got the title once and he was a test driver when he start driving so he was not so rookie like Jaques in his fisrt year and his outstanding rookie season and getting the pole in the first race and loosing the race just because of a oil leak.

Hill was just a locky driver.

Schumi won races were Senna was in the track and Prost too and Mansell too, they all had better cars thatn him and don't forget that Senna lovers always talk abuot that one and only race that senna won with a Lotus so don't tell me know about the car that Senna had in 1992 when Schumi ended in front of him in the championship and in 1994 when he beat Senna in the fisrt three races, and I am not including here Senna's experience compare to Schumi experience a that time.

Now you tell me...

[Schumikonen]

Ctrl300, on Aug 16 2006, 10:53 PM, said:

Still can afford the dope on your weekly allowanse I see...

Schu is a notorious and proven cheat. What Senna did to Prost and vice versa cannot be explained in the same relative terms as the way Schu bumped Hill and JV (If you know nothing of the rivalry of Prost and Senna I suggest you look up the tread in this section. BTW Prost is the all time best).

And no, bumping competitors out is not what drivers do to win. If that was the case we would see them racing tanks.

you didn't believe me when I said it, now Jaques Villenueve said the same that I did, that Senna did some dirt trick too, here are his words

"Senna played dirty tricks too but he did it with more class, more integrity.

"When he took Prost out [in the Japanese Grand Prix] at Suzuka in 1990, he said he was going to do it before the race," said Villeneuve, who is expected to retire from F1 following BMW Sauber's decision to drop him last month.


Villeneuve beat Schumacher to the 1997 world title
"So, unlike Michael, who ridiculously insisted he was innocent at Monaco this year, Senna said, 'Yes, I did it. But I told you before the race that I was going to do it.'

"That's very different from what Michael did at Monaco and Jerez [in 1997] and Adelaide [in 1994 where he collided controversially with Damon Hill].

"Senna wasn't lying to the fans. Michael was. And the sad thing is that, of course, the fans accept it - they swear black is white, in fact - just so that they can go on respecting the sport they love. And Michael takes advantage of that loyalty."

The only different thing here is that the person who said these word dislike Schumi. (like all of you)
If his is a lier I don't know and certanly I don't really care as long as he is winning, what I said is that Senna did the same and all of you agree that I was a crack smoker, know there you go and please any answer concerning this should be redirected to JV who said it know.

Edited by Schumikonen, 19 August 2006 - 09:18 AM.

[Ctrl300]

Schumikonen, on Aug 19 2006, 07:00 PM, said:

Hill did what he did just because of the Williams that he was driving, and that's it, He is the only driver that lost a championship in that almighty Williams that saw Mansell 1992, Prost 1993, Hill 1996 and Villenueve 1997 winning, he does not deserve to be called a top driver and you know that, Senna was a top driver, like Prost, Mansell, Piquet, Lauda but Damon hill does not belong to that kind of drivers.

Just take a look at how many years he had that Williams and he just got the title once and he was a test driver when he start driving so he was not so rookie like Jaques in his fisrt year and his outstanding rookie season and getting the pole in the first race and loosing the race just because of a oil leak.

Hill was just a locky driver.

Schumi won races were Senna was in the track and Prost too and Mansell too, they all had better cars thatn him and don't forget that Senna lovers always talk abuot that one and only race that senna won with a Lotus so don't tell me know about the car that Senna had in 1992 when Schumi ended in front of him in the championship and in 1994 when he beat Senna in the fisrt three races, and I am not including here Senna's experience compare to Schumi experience a that time.

Now you tell me...

You know that what you are saying is drivel so why should anyone bother replying to it?

Schumikonen, on Aug 19 2006, 07:14 PM, said:

you didn't believe me when I said it, now Jaques Villenueve said the same that I did, that Senna did some dirt trick too, here are his words

"Senna played dirty tricks too but he did it with more class, more integrity.

"When he took Prost out [in the Japanese Grand Prix] at Suzuka in 1990, he said he was going to do it before the race," said Villeneuve, who is expected to retire from F1 following BMW Sauber's decision to drop him last month.
Villeneuve beat Schumacher to the 1997 world title
"So, unlike Michael, who ridiculously insisted he was innocent at Monaco this year, Senna said, 'Yes, I did it. But I told you before the race that I was going to do it.'

"That's very different from what Michael did at Monaco and Jerez [in 1997] and Adelaide [in 1994 where he collided controversially with Damon Hill].

"Senna wasn't lying to the fans. Michael was. And the sad thing is that, of course, the fans accept it - they swear black is white, in fact - just so that they can go on respecting the sport they love. And Michael takes advantage of that loyalty."

The only different thing here is that the person who said these word dislike Schumi. (like all of you)
If his is a lier I don't know and certanly I don't really care as long as he is winning, what I said is that Senna did the same and all of you agree that I was a crack smoker, know there you go and please any answer concerning this should be redirected to JV who said it know.

Listen, I never said i approved of Senna's actions either, but I think what Schu has shown is worse than what Senna did.
In 89 it's really a racing incident between two hard headed team mates, where Senna eventually got the blame as he was behind Prost and off the racing line when they collided. In 90 Senna took out Prost as payback for 89 (which is ludicris as he was to blame for the crash) but also for the stewards not letting him get it his way and start from pole on the clean side of the track.
Schu on the other hand blatantly took Hill out when he knew it was that or second. He got away with one murder and later tried it again in 97, only to get arrested. Again in Monaco this year he tried to steal the pole from FA by blocking. And the list goes on.
Listen, both drivers have/had questionable morals, but i, and all non-schu fanatics find him to be the worst of the two.

[Wez]

Ctrl300, on Aug 19 2006, 11:58 AM, said:

You know that what you are saying is drivel so why should anyone bother replying to it?
Listen, I never said i approved of Senna's actions either, but I think what Schu has shown is worse than what Senna did.
In 89 it's really a racing incident between two hard headed team mates, where Senna eventually got the blame as he was behind Prost and off the racing line when they collided. In 90 Senna took out Prost as payback for 89 (which is ludicris as he was to blame for the crash) but also for the stewards not letting him get it his way and start from pole on the clean side of the track.

Prost fault in 89
Senna fault in 90

Ctrl300, on Aug 19 2006, 11:58 AM, said:

Schu on the other hand blatantly took Hill out when he knew it was that or second. He got away with one murder and later tried it again in 97, only to get arrested. Again in Monaco this year he tried to steal the pole from FA by blocking. And the list goes on.
Listen, both drivers have/had questionable morals, but i, and all non-schu fanatics find him to be the worst of the two.

Indeed, Shumi doesnt have just one to his name like you say, he's got an entire list & unlike the above two, lies and claims he is innocent.

Edited by Wez, 19 August 2006 - 01:22 PM.

[ecapdeville]

Ctrl300, you said what I say all the time...

"What Senna did to Prost and vice versa cannot be explained in the same relative terms as the way Schu bumped Hill and JV (If you know nothing of the rivalry of Prost and Senna I suggest you look up the tread in this section)."



If you people (AR5 and other Scummi followers) dont understand this is because you didnt "live" those times, I think pump should know this, but maybe he dont remember (age troubles).    lol.

[pumpdoc]

ecapdeville, on Aug 19 2006, 06:26 AM, said:

Ctrl300, you said what I say all the time...

"What Senna did to Prost and vice versa cannot be explained in the same relative terms as the way Schu bumped Hill and JV (If you know nothing of the rivalry of Prost and Senna I suggest you look up the tread in this section)."



If you people (AR5 and other Scummi followers) dont understand this is because you didnt "live" those times, I think pump should know this, but maybe he dont remember (age troubles).    lol.

Kids, no respect for your elders

My take is this, you do what you have to do to win, every driver has done doggey things from the best to the worst. If you are of the elite class your sins are made bigger, if you are of the mid-pack class no one notices just like those drivers and if you are of the bottom class your miss-deeds only go noticed if you take out a top driver............