Racing Of The United States Variety

[Massa 0]

2013 Toyota Camry Cup car...

It looks like a Toyota Camry. Which isn't too thrilling, but what it should look like. Joe Gibbs Racing, Michael Waltrip Racing, and JTG-Daugherty Racing have all committed long-term to Toyota.

Compare to:

2013 Ford Fusion Cup car

2013 Dodge Charger Cup car

[JHS18 0]

Think the Ford is the best of a bad bunch. Don't think any of them are particularly inspiring, but hey, I'm sure there's a good reason why they're doing this...I just don't know what it is.

[Massa 0]

The problem isn't with NASCAR, for once.

NASCAR is doing the right thing: they are making their cars look like actual road cars rather than uniform bricks.

The problem is that the four cars competing in NASCAR are all very ugly or boring road cars, and therefore, they can't be made into anything other than ugly or boring racing cars.

[JHS18 0]

Just a quick question - is there anything other than the looks that are changing to the cars then? Is this a COT version two? Are new parts becoming standardised to cut costs?

Otherwise, I really can't see the point of what it is. If it is just a case of new bodies and nothing else...surely that is a bit of a waste of money? I guess it is increasingly important to make their car stand out from rival manufacturers, but surely that could be done in better ways?

As I say, I know next to nothing on this, so you'll probably convince me it is a good decision eventually...

[Massa 0]

New bodies. Everything else is the same. Teams replace the bodies all the time anyway; having a new body style barely adds any cost in the long-run.

The cars will chassis and engines will continue to be entirely different by team and make (though not all makes are the same; different teams build their own chassis and engines, just like F1. As I've pointed out, a few of the NASCAR shops are bigger than F1 factories...I think Earnhardt-Ganassi's is three times the size of Red Bull's F1 digs).

The body styles are in response to both the fans and the automakers wanting differentiation. The fans are tired of seeing the current car, where only decals give the body any real identity. The automakers want the cars to look like road cars to help fans associate the racing car with an actual product they can by. It does nothing to say "Toyota Camry wins Daytona 500!" when anyone watching would look and say "yeah, but that's not a Toyota Camry at all." Now, the astute person will still say "yeah, it's still not a Toyota Camry" but people who don't follow this stuff can now say "hmm, I guess that is based off of a real Camry, sure looks like one, how cool, Toyota is a (adjective) company that I associate with (image) because of it."

It also helps NASCAR amongst fans of other racing series. Right now, if you just look at the cars, you would say "NASCAR, that must be a spec series, how boring." It isn't obvious that the teams build their own chassis and engines (some purchase them from other teams, of course) and that this is so far from a spec series that even one Ford Fusion is entirely different from the next. But that takes explanation, and no one wants to hear explanation. They see two identical cars, must be identical, how boring, no thanks. Now you see the cars look different and someone might say "hmm, that's interesting" and be more inclined to watch.

Then you go to the competition stand-point and the theory is that cars with different but equalized aerodynamic characteristics will make for a more compelling race in that different strengths and weaknesses will generate more passing, and that the cars won't just take off in clean air and dominate a race. I can't say whether or not I think this will work in practice.

Plus, looks are subjective. I think they look pretty cool, given the cars they are based on aren't exactly that great.

Cost-wise, since you bring it up, this probably saves teams money at some point. In theory, if they don't go to these new bodies, the automakers may start to cut their funding and support in NASCAR as they don't get much return out of near-spec bodies, and if they cut funding, then teams have to fill that void with their own money, which is a lot more costly than switching over to a new body style on the same chassis for 2013 which won't be very expensive at all and will keep the automakers and what NASCAR believes to be a majority of fans happy.

SparkNotes: It may seem unnecessary, but there were motives, and it's not like it's going to hurt anything even if you don't see the merit.

[HandyNZL 1]

Show me a good looking sedan and I'll, well, not believe you

[Massa 0]

Yes, sedans are horrid. Meanwhile, my car, which looks a lot like this, is beautiful.

They should race it in NASCAR...

[Massa 0]

12-year-old racing driver Tyler Morr passed away.

[url="http://baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2012/5/23/_12_year_old_racer_w.html"]http://baynews9.com/...ld_racer_w.html[/url]

You'll note that he's wearing a motorcycle helmet in the photo, and an expert says it would therefore not have proper head-and-neck restraint capabilities. The lack of safety regulations at local tracks can be disgusting sometimes. A lot of people don't know the differences between safety gear, so they just go low-cost without realizing that they don't have the right stuff, and if the track doesn't mandate anything more than that, it's really lame. Local racers are just normal guys who do this as a hobby; it's an expensive one, and any cost savings seem like good ideas, and if the rules allow this kind of stuff, you can't really blame them. These tracks need to make sure competitors 1) have their safety equipment regulated and 2) know the differences among whatever devices are being allowed. Partly because it's the right thing to do, partly to avoid lawsuits. Doing youth racing and not having safety be a number one requirement is just beyond irresponsible for a track.

The danger and risk and all that...it's inevitable, it's part of it. But at the youth level, all romantic notions of motor racing as risky ought to go out the window.

Just my uneducated $0.02. Worth no more or no less than anyone else's, unless their cents are in a foreign currency...

[The Shadow 0]

Hey! I drive a '94 Honda Civic.

I supose, that when young drivers see the current safety levels in major motorsports events, and how drivers can walk away from almost anything - there is a sort of complacency that builds up in the psyche that the safety equipment in all forms of motorsport are generally sufficient. Not saying the case above is representative of that, just a general plea for all forms of motorsport organisers to ensure that the best forms of safety equipment and practices are instituted at even the grassroots level events.

We may never fully eliminate casualties in the sport but cost savings should never be any justification for the loss of life - young or old.

[Massa 0]

Some IndyCar stuff that didn't seem appropriate for the race thread:

This is a diagram of the 2013 IndyCar aerokits. The stuff in gray is mandatory. Basically you get to design sidepods and engine cover. The hideous airbox stays, by Tony Cotman mandating one. I wish they would just let the aerokit supplier but the air inlet wherever they want because airboxes are horrible-looking. An American Championship car should be turbocharged (like this one) and have a roll hoop, not an airbox. Anyway, aerokits is a cool compromise, but I just wish they had a little more freedom.

http://www.indycar.c...-moving-forward

Other rumors: Kevin Lee taking over play-by-play at NBCSN when Bob Jenkins retires (either at the end of this month or at the end of 2012; it was unclear but we'll know his plans tomorrow). IZOD may not return as the title sponsor of the IndyCar Series. Each year they have reduced their presence at events and I don't think they made a new TV commercial this year.

Of course, it wouldn't be May if we didn't have "THE TRACK IS FOR SALE AND TONY GEORGE IS PARTNERING WITH JOHN MENARD AND NASCAR TO BUY IT" rumors so I'm sure those will come up soon.

Also wouldn't be May if I weren't getting frequent migraines. I have no idea why it happens every May, but I cannot wait to be into June...

[JHS18 0]

Hey! I drive a '94 Honda Civic.

I supose, that when young drivers see the current safety levels in major motorsports events, and how drivers can walk away from almost anything - there is a sort of complacency that builds up in the psyche that the safety equipment in all forms of motorsport are generally sufficient. Not saying the case above is representative of that, just a general plea for all forms of motorsport organisers to ensure that the best forms of safety equipment and practices are instituted at even the grassroots level events.

We may never fully eliminate casualties in the sport but cost savings should never be any justification for the loss of life - young or old.

And then related to that - young drivers see older, professional racers do dangerous moves on the track that go unpunished - younger drivers therefore think it is okay to do that, they don't learn, copy it, and sooner or later someone gets hurt.

Not making the connection between what happened to this kid and my point, just thought it would be relevant in a way to what you were saying. Unfortunately, freak accidents sometimes happen in racing, and I guess without knowing much about it, that is what happened here.

Motorsport can never be too safe - yes, there should be an element of risk, of course. That's one of the reasons I find motorsport so interesting - there's the element of risk and danger involved that you just don't get with many other sports, for example, football (or soccer if you're American ).

Saying that though, no-one ever wants to see someone get hurt or killed and track owners, series owners, competitors, etc, etc should never get complacent about the dangers of motorsport.

[Massa 0]

Well, every other sport has much more frequent injuries that require participants to sit out (I'm not talking about soccer and baseball players who will milk a chipped toe nail for ten weeks; I mean broken legs, I mean concussion, I mean needing surgery) for periods of time and yet somehow only motor racing gets an injury (not talking about a fatality) and we need to reinvent our entire sport and every regulation around it. Not sure if it's out a goodness within all racing people's hearts, or (and this is what I think) an insecurity about our sport having a reputation as "too dangerous."

That said, you have to make things safe to protect against fatality, and in doing so, you often eliminate a lot of injuries.

There are two things at play in this specific incident:

1) Faulty safety equipment. That is a motorcycle helmet. It is not an auto racing helmet. There is also a rumor that the seat may have failed or broke. It is the track/sanctioning body's responsibility to educate on the differences among equipment that they consider legal. As I said, if you don't know the difference, and a lot of people just see a helmet and say "a helmet's a helmet," they will often choose the lowest cost option. That is their own decision, but they would not make that decision if they had information, or if the product they were puchasing wasn't legal (which it shouldn't be). Regardless, the competitor chose the equipment he was using, which, at age 12, is a decision that should be made for him as many young people's parents' don't have a racing background and therefore don't understand the equipment. The quick solution to this is to do what any credible youth racing series does: supply standard-issue safety equipment to everyone. Include as part of the registration fee. I raced karts when I was a kid; a helmet, a firesuit, and a neckbrace were included in the cost of my license. Drivers had to supply their own gloves and shoes for sizing reasons.The quick solution to this for an adult series? Have actual safety requirements about everything and actually enforce them. Plenty of tracks do. Not that hard. People will always try to do the low-cost option in the absence of information. Take that option away from them and set up your regulations in non-safety areas to cut costs if your car counts are too low (i.e. crate motors).

2) Why the hell is a youth league racing full-size cars? That's screwed up. The quick solution: quarter midgets, micro sprints, Mini Cup, Bandoleros, go-karts. Kids shouldn't be racing in anything else, end of story.

Obviously I take local track safety seriously because I grew up at local tracks, I did small-time racing myself (karts), and I have quite a few young cousins who are all racing in youth leagues (one just graduated to the big-time...kid might make it nationally...I can never tell you who he is because you don't need to know who I am but it's pretty awesome to see a relative making it as far as he had...I'll give you a hint...he races in a USAC-sanctioned division...good luck picking him out of hundreds of drivers...and no, we do not share a surname so that'll make it even harder ). Professional racing...the risk is part of it and you deal with that. Local racing? These drivers aren't at a level to be committing their lives, literally, to the sport and the track has to ensure that.

Not to detract from the fact that it's very, very sad that this incident happened, freak or not. Can't imagine what his family feels and I hope as few people as possible ever have to find out.

[Rainmaster 7]

You'd think with it being a series for kids the organisers and parents would be completely proactive about safety, organisers with regulations and parents by trying to ensure their kid is as safe as possible. Hope something changes.

[Massa 0]

Matt Kenseth interviews himself at that other race going on this weekend.

http://www.nascar.com/video/preview/sound-off/120524/cup-cha-media-biffle-joke/index.html

[Massa 0]

A small leftover from Indy:

Ed Carpenter's spin was caused by a broken front wing adjuster (the wing was adjusting freely, meaning he had no idea how much downforce he had at any time...just a mess). This has apparently been a problem for many with the DW12 chassis. Carpenter suggested that in an effort to cut costs, it may not have been designed as well as it could have been. Sucks for Ed, but that's racing. He drove very well to be up there at the end.

Race was so good they might catch me watching Detroit next weekend.

[HandyNZL 1]

Maybe you should. Just for the hell of it, you know?

[Massa 0]

Tracy Hines made the pass on the final corner to win the Night Before the 500 USAC Midget race Saturday. I was shocked to see Bobby Santos in the finishing order since he ran a Modified race in Connecticut on Saturday, too. Aviation is mind-boggling.

Danica Patrick says she wants to do the 1100 next year. I think she's fired up that her team went and ran a lot better without her this year, even if none of them were there at the finish because, well, no offense to Hinchcliffe/Andretti/Hunter-Reay/Saavedra/Beatriz, but they aren't the Wheldon/Kanaan/Franchitti/Herta team of 2005. Credit of course to Hinchcliffe; I know I lumped him in with the other four but he did finish sixth and that's respectable.

I also think she knows she won't need the endurance to do 1100 because she'll be multiple laps down if not retired from the 600 at night.

Jenna Fryer says the race was "uneventful." What a hack journalist. I don't know why IndyCar lets her happen. She's a NASCAR-first, NASCAR-only journalist and she can't write anything without taking a dig at IndyCar. If she took shots at NASCAR, NASCAR would magically make her disappear. Bernard needs to sack up and get this clown to stop covering IndyCar for the Associated Press because she ****ing sucks at her job...the AP is not your own personal editorial. Fryer lamented the lack of a "dictator" in IndyCar. I wish there was one, too, to get rid of journalists like her, Robin Miller, John Oreoviehvuerheuihicz, etc. The race and the series go no where if you don't have every last thing written about it be rabbits and rainbows and NASCAR figured that out a long time ago. To be honest, I'd settle for every last thing written being based on reality and not "let's debate facts about the split."

Anyway.

I wonder what Roger Penske's thinking. He's yielded his race to Chip. They say "Penske Perfect" but I'm going to tell you I haven't seen an Indy 500 since maybe 2001 (I can't remember one in 2001 but that doesn't mean there wasn't) where Penske didn't have some big pit gaffe on one of his cars. Every year. It's a tradition now. I think Castroneves had one even in 2002 when he won. Now they're so good they make sure Castroneves, Briscoe, and Power all have one per 500-mile race. They aren't on par with the Ganassi guys in anything and this is the only one Roger really cares about. Why do you think Sam Hornish, Jr. has a lifetime-guaranteed ride in NASCAR when he's never done anything there? Because he won the one Roger wanted him to win back in 2006.

I wonder if Roger thinks about his drivers, too. I mean, you can't replace Castroneves, he's a legend, and you can't replace Power because he's so good everywhere else, and you can't replace Briscoe because that wouldn't be fair after he was the only Penske driver who posed any kind of threat all day...

But. I wonder if Penske looks at Townsend Bell doing his one-off in a small-budget team every year and getting top results. I wonder if Penske looks at Oriol Servià coming from a lap down and hustling to fourth; here and everywhere else, few have better racecraft than Servià say those in the garage. I wonder if he wonders what those guys would do in his cars. I also wonder if he looks at going in a new direction and sees a kid like Josef Newgarden and says "this guy could win the 500 with us."

I trust Penske knows more than I do but there just seems to be something missing. Maybe he should go back to a two-car team...

[Massa 0]

What we still don't know:

There will be one extra Honda engine lease from pre-Indy carrying on. Is it for Tagliani and BHA or is it the second RLL car as planned prior to Indy?

Do Bourdais and Legge have engines? Servià does because they aligned with Panther, but Dragon have confirmed nothing for the future. Bourdais keeps talking about Detroit as if he knows he's going there, and some were suggesting Vitor Meira would replace Bourdais at Milwaukee while Bourdais runs Le Mans.

Lotus...are they in or are they out? Will HVM stay? Some say Lotus are done. Others say Lotus are expanding HVM to a two-car team, or that Fan Force United will continue.

Clauson...does he get to go to Milwaukee? Probably not but I hope so. After his qualifying wreck he was a mess. But he wasn't the first rookie to ever be a mess at Indy and I still believe he can get it done. He needs seat-time and he was on a very small budget for Indy; that budget was supposed to be to do some Indy Lights and Star Mazda, so that tells you how small it was and how stretched resources were. Doesn't excuse his mistakes as a driver but I hope he gets to drive some type of something because Indy needs him.

[Massa 0]

Another discussion carrying over from Indy: Conway out there with a broken wing. Power was angry about that.

Conway wasn't sent out with a broken wing; it was weakened and broke at speed. But it shows the difference between an archaic organization like Foyt and a top-class one like Ganassi.

When Franchitti was spun on pit road, his wing didn't break. Didn't matter. Without any hesitation at all, a new nose was on the car. You lost time anyway, just get it on, be safe. That's a professional organization...they didn't have to think about it. It was just obvious that you don't take that risk that early in the race. Get the new piece on, stay cool, recover...win the race.

Conway comes in like a big-time doofus and hits his crew (which was an automatic DQ from the race in the Champ Car days...though a DQ to A.J. is Dairy Queen ...not saying that was a good rule or a bad rule...it's a different situation with a pit lane this narrow on an oval with mass pitting and all so you can't say CCWS had fewer incidents because they were doing a different thing and I doubt the rule changes it since you don't go into the pits saying "I'll gain an advantage if I plow into some guys" whereas blocking or something, you have that motivation and for another lingering issue to be addressed, Dario gave a hell of a lot more room than I ever would on the last lap of the Indy 500 and had balls to hold it like that against Sato when he could have backed off and drafted back by on the back stretch...guy was going for it, so clever to be thinking that late in the race, fatigued, under pressure, to give Sato just enough that he'd take but not enough that it could stick...clever, clever, clever, I love clever stuff, I really do...probably because I'm so stupid ), and they don't even think to do anything. That's amateurish. No visible damage doesn't mean no damage. It means play it safe because anything can happen from then on. Some guy tooting around one lap down at that point finished fourth, you know...of course that team has one hell of a driver and Foyt's got poor old Mike, who is quick, he really is quick.

I know I'm critical of A.J. but quite frankly it's embarrassing to see a legend's name on something run so poorly. I'm not a fan of his or anything like that but it'd be cool if he could win another one. I think a lot of people would like that.

[Massa 0]

I had a never meet your heroes moment.

Beaux Barfield just admitted to fixing the Indy 500 on Twitter.

The race was fixed. The Indy 500 was fixed.

F***.

[JHS18 0]

What race isn't fixed in this day and age?

[Massa 0]

It's Indy, man. You don't **** around with Indy.

[HandyNZL 1]

Yep - it was so fixed he arranged for Takuma to spin and crash out....

[The Shadow 0]

Watched the race on Sunday.

My first Indy 500 too. would't have bothered watching before you guys started talking about it, and once I have some details and stats in my head (courtesy of Eric) I couldn't miss it. So I tuned in at midnight, not expecting much

By the time I went to bed I can say I caught the Indy 500 bug. I think I can now begin to understand what you all mean when you say the Indy is special.

Thanks guys (Esp Eric). I look forward to watching next years race as well.

[HandyNZL 1]

James! Eric! There's an insurgent in our thread!!! What do we do? What do we doooooooo?