Kubica'S Form Is Bothering Me...

[AleHop 0]

Kubica's Form is...

Another Alonso bashing thread.

Enjoy the forums.

[Kopite Girl 0]

Maybe people are actually p**sed at themselves for following an admitted cheater. He admitted to knowing about McLaren having Ferrari's blueprints/information, even emailing PDLR about it. Or the alleged blackmail move on his part regarding the #1 status in the team with old Ron Dennis. There are those of us who believe 100% he knew about crashgate before it happened too. So rather than throw in the towel in support of Alonso the Delusional, they dig in and can't face the facts they might be chearing on someone they don't actually feel comfortable with. So they push through the smoke and instead attack the drivers and their supporters here. That way they don't have to think long and hard about who they themselves put their support behind.

Thats bulls##t.

I think you need to look hard at what you're saying.

You accuse Alonso supporters of digging in, when all I see is fans of Kimi picking up on EVERY SINGLE LITTLE MISTAKE that Alonso makes and having a go at the fans.

Petty, stupid and relentlessly ****ing boring.

I've nothing against Tommy as a person. Said it before. He's biased. But he does pick up on EVERY Alonso post and turns it into a campaign against him.

Kool Monkey, before you respond let me say this. I'm not interested in your response until you recognise it works both ways.

Acknowledge that and lets stop this stupid crap of OMG KIMI SO ROX!!!111ONE.

We all know here that neither driver rocks.

JENSON BUTTON BABY! Argue with that and I'll find your arse, and kick it.

[Schumikonen 2]

Thats bulls##t.

I think you need to look hard at what you're saying.

You accuse Alonso supporters of digging in, when all I see is fans of Kimi picking up on EVERY SINGLE LITTLE MISTAKE that Alonso makes and having a go at the fans.

Petty, stupid and relentlessly ****ing boring.

I've nothing against Tommy as a person. Said it before. He's biased. But he does pick up on EVERY Alonso post and turns it into a campaign against him.

Kool Monkey, before you respond let me say this. I'm not interested in your response until you recognise it works both ways.

Acknowledge that and lets stop this stupid crap of OMG KIMI SO ROX!!!111ONE.

We all know here that neither driver rocks.

JENSON BUTTON BABY! Argue with that and I'll find your arse, and kick it.

Did you noticed that I posted about Alonso's fans having problem with every good driver's fans and I intentionally left Button off that group to annoy you by meaning that he is not a good driver but you didn't fall for that or didin't bother to say anything about it but anyway we accomplished this purpose by other means

[KoolMonkey 0]

Kubica's Form is...

Another Alonso bashing thread.

Enjoy the forums.

Then you clearly havn't read anything on here. Show me a way to change the title of this thread as I have been trying to do since the first post. It wasn't meant to be misleading, rather the second line of the title didn't get posted.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Thats bulls##t.

I think you need to look hard at what you're saying.

You accuse Alonso supporters of digging in, when all I see is fans of Kimi picking up on EVERY SINGLE LITTLE MISTAKE that Alonso makes and having a go at the fans.

Petty, stupid and relentlessly ****ing boring.

I've nothing against Tommy as a person. Said it before. He's biased. But he does pick up on EVERY Alonso post and turns it into a campaign against him.

Kool Monkey, before you respond let me say this. I'm not interested in your response until you recognise it works both ways.

Acknowledge that and lets stop this stupid crap of OMG KIMI SO ROX!!!111ONE.

We all know here that neither driver rocks.

JENSON BUTTON BABY! Argue with that and I'll find your arse, and kick it.

My comment was the first time I've ever addressed Alonso's supporters directly from memory. Otherwise I've stuck to the subject of talking about the drivers themselves. The problem with Alonso supporters is in order to defend their chosen one, they take to attacking other forum members instead of defending or discussing Alonso or whoever is being discussed.

You seem to act as though you are Alonso. And no I don't have a go at attacking the fans. I have been p**sed off at times, and who wouldn't be, after being attacked personally, or called various things. But I have not made it an endeavor to attack anyone here, or any group of fans. I've gone out of my way not to respond to clearly baited postings and try to keep things on topic.

Your post only validates what I was saying in a way. I never made a post directed at you, concerning you, or mentioning your name. Heck I don't even know you. Yet because you think I wished Alonso would be hit by a bus, suddenly omg, get out the pitchforks and torches.

Yes it works both ways, but the vitriol and hate gushing out is on these forums often in a one sided manor. So you can think it works both ways all you like, but in practice it doesn't. A person makes one post and the jackals and wolves descend to pick it apart. But rather than ever actually debating anything, the person who made a post or comment is the one attacked until submission.

I don't need to beg penance for saying what I am thinking in a manner that isn't disrespectful to anyone here.. It's clear very few if anyone on here actually give a toss, and would rather attack another forum member than use their brain cells to construct a rebuttal or counter argument. I've made many detailed posts, to then read replies from ****wits who clearly haven't read anything, but just saw it as X vs X, and ooooh, you suck because I support X. Why bother replying in the first place if you aren't going to read what people have written. And if you don't agree, then say why for goodness sake, don't attack the messenger because it only shows your inability to debate anything. If anyone here feels I have ever attacked them personally, then speak up, otherwise leave the bulls##t of personal attacks out of these discussions.

[Kopite Girl 0]

My comment was the first time I've ever addressed Alonso's supporters directly from memory. Otherwise I've stuck to the subject of talking about the drivers themselves. The problem with Alonso supporters is in order to defend their chosen one, they take to attacking other forum members instead of defending or discussing Alonso or whoever is being discussed.

You seem to act as though you are Alonso. And no I don't have a go at attacking the fans. I have been p**sed off at times, and who wouldn't be, after being attacked personally, or called various things. But I have not made it an endeavor to attack anyone here, or any group of fans. I've gone out of my way not to respond to clearly baited postings and try to keep things on topic.

Your post only validates what I was saying in a way. I never made a post directed at you, concerning you, or mentioning your name. Heck I don't even know you. Yet because you think I wished Alonso would be hit by a bus, suddenly omg, get out the pitchforks and torches.

Yes it works both ways, but the vitriol and hate gushing out is on these forums often in a one sided manor. So you can think it works both ways all you like, but in practice it doesn't. A person makes one post and the jackals and wolves descend to pick it apart. But rather than ever actually debating anything, the person who made a post or comment is the one attacked until submission.

I don't need to beg penance for saying what I am thinking in a manner that isn't disrespectful to anyone here.. It's clear very few if anyone on here actually give a toss, and would rather attack another forum member than use their brain cells to construct a rebuttal or counter argument. I've made many detailed posts, to then read replies from ****wits who clearly haven't read anything, but just saw it as X vs X, and ooooh, you suck because I support X. Why bother replying in the first place if you aren't going to read what people have written. And if you don't agree, then say why for goodness sake, don't attack the messenger because it only shows your inability to debate anything. If anyone here feels I have ever attacked them personally, then speak up, otherwise leave the bulls##t of personal attacks out of these discussions.

Where am I personally attacking you?

I called your post bulls##t because thats exactly what it is!

Everything you've said is a direct attack at Alonso and apparently I'm acting like I am Alonso. Well, great. I'm twice a world champion! I think I've enough reason to call your post bulls##t.

It gets on my nerves when asked a reasonable question, when unable to answer or defend properly, people resort to the 'oh you're having a go at me' tactic. WRONG. The first rule of foruming is 'attack the post, and not the poster' - so unless I've called you brainless or stupid or Indeed any other name, then I'm sorry but you are way out of line and off track.

Now. Read this and read it well. You want to attack me for personally insulting you when you've no good reason? Thats your choice. I'll give you a little piece of advice - make sure you can back it up first.

All I'm reading all over these ****ing forums lately is Alonso blahblah. Kimi blahblah. Its the same old Sh#t, every day and frankly, ITS BORING. Now, I'm in this thread trying to put a stop to the endless inane battle of dimwitted posts relating to this subject.

Kubica thread. Its a joke. One big joke.

Now can ANYBODY pick out where I have personally had a go at KM?

Didn't think so.

Now look at his post to me. Check out the insults.

Its nice to know I have an impact on people though.

Kimi v Alonso. Laughable. Talk about it when Kimi's back in F1 (Yeah Tommy I said when!).

You got me wrong Kool Monkey. I asked you a specific question. When there is bait all over this forum, as a non-Alonso fan, can you see where the Alonso supporters are coming from?

I'm not the biggest fan of either driver. But I understand both sides. At least have the courage of your convictions and agree.

[Kopite Girl 0]

Started way back my dear... back when Alonso won his 1st championship, the 2nd one that Kimi should've won, and Alonso fans started worshipping him as the god of racing. The one who never makes mistakes, the one who will surpass Schumie, things like that. It's just that we Kimi fans know better, we know who's the better driver. Eternal it will stay, but Alonso's antics and stupidity will always be a fascination to us.

It's also clear that it's best not interefere with the Kimi versus Alonso battles, when you're a fan on neither, as you will post will reflect what you did with the 1st post of this particular thread.

THANK YOU! A real answer. And Yeah I know but you know me, always on the sniff for equality. I like to even the balance. But thanks mate.

that one's for you, just this once

Now. Tommy also knows how I tick. Tommy is being a very naughty boy. Tommy likes to troll and bait a bit and he's on his own little mission. Behave, Mr. Tommy. Its not nice.

And Alex, you can play fair too.

[Kopite Girl 0]

Did you noticed that I posted about Alonso's fans having problem with every good driver's fans and I intentionally left Button off that group to annoy you by meaning that he is not a good driver but you didn't fall for that or didin't bother to say anything about it but anyway we accomplished this purpose by other means

Always trying to leave bait, Tommy. You validate my point my dear friend!

[KoolMonkey 0]

Where am I personally attacking you?

I called your post bulls##t because thats exactly what it is!

Everything you've said is a direct attack at Alonso and apparently I'm acting like I am Alonso. Well, great. I'm twice a world champion! I think I've enough reason to call your post bulls##t.

It gets on my nerves when asked a reasonable question, when unable to answer or defend properly, people resort to the 'oh you're having a go at me' tactic. WRONG. The first rule of foruming is 'attack the post, and not the poster' - so unless I've called you brainless or stupid or Indeed any other name, then I'm sorry but you are way out of line and off track.

Now. Read this and read it well. You want to attack me for personally insulting you when you've no good reason? Thats your choice. I'll give you a little piece of advice - make sure you can back it up first.

All I'm reading all over these ****ing forums lately is Alonso blahblah. Kimi blahblah. Its the same old Sh#t, every day and frankly, ITS BORING. Now, I'm in this thread trying to put a stop to the endless inane battle of dimwitted posts relating to this subject.

Kubica thread. Its a joke. One big joke.

Now can ANYBODY pick out where I have personally had a go at KM?

Didn't think so.

Now look at his post to me. Check out the insults.

Its nice to know I have an impact on people though.

Kimi v Alonso. Laughable. Talk about it when Kimi's back in F1 (Yeah Tommy I said when!).

You got me wrong Kool Monkey. I asked you a specific question. When there is bait all over this forum, as a non-Alonso fan, can you see where the Alonso supporters are coming from?

I'm not the biggest fan of either driver. But I understand both sides. At least have the courage of your convictions and agree.

My point about you acting like you were Alonso is were taking things too personal where I never addressed anything directly towards you. So lighten up, it's only a forum and we all have our own opinions here

If you're going to call my post bulls##t, then don't attempt to then say I was attacking you. Backup why you feel something wasn't agreeable, say why you think so. Otherwise it only comes across as a stereotypical response of you suck because I said you do, not because I have anything to add either, nor cannot rebut what has been said... but you know you just suck. Simply stating such, doesn't make it so.

No one forces you to read this or any other thread, so I find it laughable you are fed up with topics on whatever it is. You can choose to not read it, let alone take the time to respond.

You find fault with my posts, claim I've insulted you, then chide me for not having the conviction or courage to do what exactly? If you were insulted by anything I said, as I mentioned before I wasn't posting any personal attack against you. I have agreed on countless topics on here concerning many drivers I don't support. When someone makes a valid point, free from insults and calling others a##holes or to go **** off, then it's worthy of responding. I love a great debate, but this forum is lacking deeply in this area. The best most can do is result to personal attacks. So then I have to take it that they either cannot be bothered, or cannot come up with anything to rebut an argument. Thus why on earth would one consider what that person has to say if they havn't bothered to even articulate a response that either adds to, conflicts with or discusses a subject. There's no point getting on that person's case, but if they then use that to be critical of someone, I'd say look at your own dealings with people here first.

[Kopite Girl 0]

Did you read anything I said? If you did, you'd find an explanation as to why I'm replying in here.

I took it personal when you tried to say I was having a go at you personally. Like I said, wrong. I attacked your post and not you.

You still haven't really answered my question. I've proved that both sides are as bad as each other. Kimi is not holier than thou, and neither is Alonso.

Was the post you made about Kimi hosting a party aimed to provoke a reaction? Not just toward me, mind. Sure, I said I'd like to see more of Kimi's personality when one can find it (yes, provocative comment-tongue in cheek mind). That isn't the point here.

The point is why all the Alonso (and Kimi) bashing. Someone has to say its bullsh!t. Someone needs to own up to the fact that it works both ways.

There's gonna be a lot more members that leave because of it.

[Schumikonen 2]

Kimi v Alonso. Laughable. Talk about it when Kimi's back in F1 (Yeah Tommy I said when!).

I don't want him back, at least not until he wins a WRC title and that may take a couple of years and like I said I want him driving for a good Indycar team, I think that's not going to happen but if Mansell did it maybe he can do it too.

[Kopite Girl 0]

Yeah. I hope he does well. It would be nice to see Kimi back at his iceman best. I think was Interlagos 2006 when he and JPM went racing in the pitlane. Quite possibly one of the more defining moments of Kimi's racecraft ability. See. I can be nice sometimes.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

that one's for you, just this once

ta, I had a bad day, definately feel way better after that!!!!!

[Autumnpuma 0]

The main reason is Hamilton's fire on the track, the same one Schumi once had but now Schumi is a more mature driver and he is not risking too much but Hamilton like he says he drive his heart out in every race and I like that in a driver, just look at the impressive drives he had so far this season, there no driver even close to him in that department, he is a joy to watch and he have his whole career ahead of him, Schumi already achieved everything he could and the re is no guaranty that he's stay for a long time in F1, I started this season without a driver to root for after Kimi left but after watching Hamilton's display I have no doubt about who to root for, IMO he is the best driver right now other could be ahead of him because of a faster car or any other reason but that won't be for long

Thanks. I just like hearing peoples reasons why they like someone/something.

As the main anti-Alonso(AA) person in the world I think I should address this post and I hope to speak for all the AA's out there, when I as in we(AA), speak, talk, post or write something about the 6/10 or about Alonso the great developer, we are not really pointing or talking about Alonso himself but about the comments his fans made all these years, I know perfectly what Alonso is capable of and how good driver he is, but when I post about those controversial topics is because those are myths that most of his fan had at point as facts or at least they used them as if they really believe it, we know that no driver can bring 6/10 to a team and that no driver can develop a car, the engeneers do as they built the parts needed for the car, so as I am running out fo time, the point is that we are directing those post to his fans comments not that we are expecting that from Alonso or something like that.

re: The parts in bold. You are quite wrong. I wont bother explaining this because if you can't see it for yourself, you wont see it with my help.

[Schumikonen 2]

Thanks. I just like hearing peoples reasons why they like someone/something.

re: The parts in bold. You are quite wrong. I wont bother explaining this because if you can't see it for yourself, you wont see it with my help.

I know that no driver can outdrive a car, if a drive X achive something in a car is just because the car allows him to do that so X driver an be 0.6 second a lap faster than his teammate but still be limited bu the car, about the developing car a driver can find the optimum set up for the car and this will allow that driver to get the most out of the car, a driver can tell about how he feels the car and what is the car lacking but ultimately is the design team/engeneers who will build the parts needed it to make the car better, they are the ones who test the car in the wind tunnel(those who have one of course) and sometimes those adition make the car go even slower as they interfere with others parts of the car and the part have to e discarded or modified to make work but is not the driver the one who do that, developing a car is so complex that I think no driver have the necessary knowledge to get into those aera as there are many areas of the car to be developed being the aero part just one of them.

Maybe what I said is not true and not even makes sense but is sound good

[cavallino 2]

Something that's been on my mind for a little while. And that is how good Kubeeetza has been going this year. The Renault has been a dog of a car for the past few years, and this year not only does it have a better livery than the putrid ING days, but both Renault drivers are actually going well.

I think the only people surprised are those who haven't been observing Kubeetza closely since his entry into F1, otherwise the quality has always been plain to see. There is a presumption sometimes that the best drivers already have the best cars which is why a while back there was the suggestion that Kimi and Alonso are the best of a generation when Kubeetza, Button etc had not had a shot in a good car.

So then that brings the question of what's going on with Alonso. That's the part that bothers me. Mr 6/10 of a second was nowhere to be seen for the past two years in Renault. The car never got any faster, in fact that just stayed stagnant the whole time. Yeah ok he won a race compliments of Piquet Jrs crash, but it was the next race in Japan where the only signifcant thing he'd done in two years took place with a proper race win.

You are overestimating the influence a driver has on a car's pace. Sure being in the right place at the right time a driver can put in that bit extra. But drivers have nothign to do with a fundamentally flawed car, most people have a weird notion that drivers can make cars faster - they can't.

Anyway, I am tired of your posts, they are bitter and tiresome and a broken record. There are somewhere some smatterings of legitimate criticism of Alonso, but it's all overshadowed by your bitterness and obvious agenda.

I always thought Kubica was pretty good so it's no surprise to me that he's super quick.

Precisely.

There are a number of reasons that Renault are performing better this year. Yeah it could be down to Kubica being able to get more out of the car but there has been a lot of changes at Renualt with Flavio and Symonds leaving so the new, fresh ideas might be working, also don't count Alonso out. he must have had a lot of input on this years car throughout last season and it certainly wasn't Piquet or Grosjean who new anything about it, now was it?

Teams generally freeze out a driver who is leaving from next year's development. Plus you are again propounding the original fallacy that a driver has a great influence on how good a car is. The fact is the Renault is a fundamentally good car this year, Kubeetza can get the best out of it, but if it had been a crap design, then there wouldn't be much he could do.

Oh and you have a misunderstanding of car design, teams don't go to drivers and ask 'so what do you think next year's design should be like' - it is dictated by new regulations (fuel, tyres etc), developments in aerodynamics and suspension design, that's what RB are doing the best in. Driver input doesn't matter squat at that stage. Once they start testing on an actual track the driver is more likely to come into it, and at that point as I said any departing drivers are frozen out.

Do I think Kubica would beat Alonso if he was back on form? No way.

Ah in that case the Pole will continue to rise in your estimation, your opinion of him doesn't quite match up to his talent yet

The exact same thing has been claimed about Kimi, especially during 2005. I don't believe a modern F1 driver can overdrive a car as they all operate within set parameters of rpms, fuel mixtures etc.

Of course they can.

I do rememeber a comment he made some years back about how Poland never supported him and he got where he got on his own etc. I've been to Poland, I don't think that was as smart thing to say. So what is he didn't get any sponsorship from his own country, it's not a reason to then get all arrogant and say in effect you owe your country nothing. Yet the Polish still support this guy due to I guess having a lack of any internationally recognized sports stars.

You're jumping to conclusions based on a badly remembered quote.

I just don't understand the rancor that some people have about some drivers. Very, very few are truly worthy of rancor.

Hmm that is symptomatic of sport and sports supporters in general though. What I do get worked up about sometimes is drivers getting more or less credit than they deserve. I think since his double championship victories Alonso gets far more credit than he deserves, quite incredibly. People are still wary of criticizing his quite mediocre performances this year, even the last race is stuffed up qualifying and then ran in Petrov, fortunately he wasn't penalised. I don't get that. The sliding window of past performance that Alonso is judged on has surely crossed 2005-6 now or at least includes the 3 years after that? And the fact that he was credited for a good car being a good car, when he moved to Mclaren, he was credited with improving a car he had nothing to do with.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I think the only people surprised are those who haven't been observing Kubeetza closely since his entry into F1, otherwise the quality has always been plain to see. There is a presumption sometimes that the best drivers already have the best cars which is why a while back there was the suggestion that Kimi and Alonso are the best of a generation when Kubeetza, Button etc had not had a shot in a good car.

You are overestimating the influence a driver has on a car's pace. Sure being in the right place at the right time a driver can put in that bit extra. But drivers have nothign to do with a fundamentally flawed car, most people have a weird notion that drivers can make cars faster - they can't.

Anyway, I am tired of your posts, they are bitter and tiresome and a broken record. There are somewhere some smatterings of legitimate criticism of Alonso, but it's all overshadowed by your bitterness and obvious agenda.

Precisely.

Teams generally freeze out a driver who is leaving from next year's development. Plus you are again propounding the original fallacy that a driver has a great influence on how good a car is. The fact is the Renault is a fundamentally good car this year, Kubeetza can get the best out of it, but if it had been a crap design, then there wouldn't be much he could do.

Oh and you have a misunderstanding of car design, teams don't go to drivers and ask 'so what do you think next year's design should be like' - it is dictated by new regulations (fuel, tyres etc), developments in aerodynamics and suspension design, that's what RB are doing the best in. Driver input doesn't matter squat at that stage. Once they start testing on an actual track the driver is more likely to come into it, and at that point as I said any departing drivers are frozen out.

Ah in that case the Pole will continue to rise in your estimation, your opinion of him doesn't quite match up to his talent yet

Of course they can.

You're jumping to conclusions based on a badly remembered quote.

Hmm that is symptomatic of sport and sports supporters in general though. What I do get worked up about sometimes is drivers getting more or less credit than they deserve. I think since his double championship victories Alonso gets far more credit than he deserves, quite incredibly. People are still wary of criticizing his quite mediocre performances this year, even the last race is stuffed up qualifying and then ran in Petrov, fortunately he wasn't penalised. I don't get that. The sliding window of past performance that Alonso is judged on has surely crossed 2005-6 now or at least includes the 3 years after that? And the fact that he was credited for a good car being a good car, when he moved to Mclaren, he was credited with improving a car he had nothing to do with.

where the hell have you been?

[Kate's Dirty Sister 0]

Teams generally freeze out a driver who is leaving from next year's development. Plus you are again propounding the original fallacy that a driver has a great influence on how good a car is. The fact is the Renault is a fundamentally good car this year, Kubeetza can get the best out of it, but if it had been a crap design, then there wouldn't be much he could do.

Oh and you have a misunderstanding of car design, teams don't go to drivers and ask 'so what do you think next year's design should be like' - it is dictated by new regulations (fuel, tyres etc), developments in aerodynamics and suspension design, that's what RB are doing the best in. Driver input doesn't matter squat at that stage. Once they start testing on an actual track the driver is more likely to come into it, and at that point as I said any departing drivers are frozen out.

Firstly thanks for being so condescending, I will explain what I meant in my original post, because believe it or not I'm not as thick as you make out.

"It could be down to Kubica being able to get more out of the car" Some drivers like certain attributes of cars..eg. Alonso hating the brakes at McLaren or Schumacher preferring the updates of the Merc as the longer wheel base and pointy front end suits him better. I was simply saying the current Renault might suit Kubica better than last years suited Alonso.

"don't count Alonso out. he must have had a lot of input on this years car throughout last season and it certainly wasn't Piquet or Grosjean who new anything about it, now was it?" There you see I said input. Not that Renault asked Alonso what next years car should be like. All drivers every race weekend share their input with the engineers into how the car is feeling, what needs to be addressed etc etc. There is a reason why Red Bull started out with two very experienced drivers, it was so they could keep developing the cars by using their drivers input. The regulations didn't change so much that all the information gathered last year wasn't useful and everyone knows that the teams start developing the car now for next season, so if a driver says a particular area is perfect (or utter crap) then of course the team will try to emulate(or not as the case may be) the same design into the new car, and yes within the regulations. Any driver who is experienced and a good talent like Alonso will of course have some input into the next generation of cars. I have never seen F1 cars in winter testing which were completely and utterly designed from scratch, not one thing developed, every single thing a completely new idea, never been used before. It just doesn't happen. F1 cars evolve and the drivers input has a part in that.

[cavallino 2]

I was simply saying the current Renault might suit Kubica better than last years suited Alonso.

Hmm so 2 years wasn't enough for Alonso to get the car to his liking? Nope, I think it's a simpler explanation, this year's car is a better car.

"don't count Alonso out. he must have had a lot of input on this years car throughout last season and it certainly wasn't Piquet or Grosjean who new anything about it, now was it?" There you see I said input. Not that Renault asked Alonso what next years car should be like.

You're digging a hole for yourself now. This year's car is a new car. If he had any useful input, it would have far more difference to last year. What do you think is more likely - his input making last year's car faster or his input making this year's completely different car under completely different rules faster? If it didn't make last year's car faster, I doubt it made any difference to a car designed for completely new rules (the large fuel tank, change in weight and forced change in wheelbase and narrower tyres make a huge difference) any faster.

I don't get why you're so antagonistic. Anyway, you're wrong, it is ridiculous to claim that Alonso had anything to do with the improved pace of this year's car, because of the new rules, because last year's car sucked and his input didn't do much to improve it and because departing drivers are frozen out of development for a new car.

You also severely overrate a driver's influence over car development, and in particular Alonso's influence. If he could make cars faster, what was he doing the last two years?

I am sure people in the CFD department, designers, engineers and everyone else who worked hard will groan at the suggestion that Alonso is responsible for the better car.

[Kate's Dirty Sister 0]

Hmm so 2 years wasn't enough for Alonso to get the car to his liking? Nope, I think it's a simpler explanation, this year's car is a better car.

You're digging a hole for yourself now. This year's car is a new car. If he had any useful input, it would have far more difference to last year. What do you think is more likely - his input making last year's car faster or his input making this year's completely different car under completely different rules faster? If it didn't make last year's car faster, I doubt it made any difference to a car designed for completely new rules (the large fuel tank, change in weight and forced change in wheelbase and narrower tyres make a huge difference) any faster.

I don't get why you're so antagonistic. Anyway, you're wrong, it is ridiculous to claim that Alonso had anything to do with the improved pace of this year's car, because of the new rules, because last year's car sucked and his input didn't do much to improve it and because departing drivers are frozen out of development for a new car.

You also severely overrate a driver's influence over car development, and in particular Alonso's influence. If he could make cars faster, what was he doing the last two years?

I am sure people in the CFD department, designers, engineers and everyone else who worked hard will groan at the suggestion that Alonso is responsible for the better car.

I can't be bothered to reply, I posted to better explain my previous post for forum members not just to answer you, that is my opinion full stop. Just wanted to laugh at you saying I'm antagonistic

[cavallino 2]

Because you assumed I was insulting your intelligence and being condescending? I wasn't. My respect for people's intelligence is usually proportional to the length of my reply, so quite the contrary actually

[Quiet One 15]

Because you assumed I was insulting your intelligence and being condescending? I wasn't. My respect for people's intelligence is usually proportional to the length of my reply, so quite the contrary actually

+1

[Kopite Girl 0]

Because you assumed I was insulting your intelligence and being condescending? I wasn't. My respect for people's intelligence is usually proportional to the length of my reply, so quite the contrary actually

That, and you like pretty girls. You told me so!