Buemi Vs. Alguersuari

[marcoferrari 0]

First of all, hello guys... I am new in this forum... I live in a non English speaking country, so my English will not be perfect... Still, I hope you will understand what I am writing about... I love Formula One and if it is possible, I would like to share my opinions to this great sport with you...

To be more specific, I am quite nicely surprised by still a rookie on some tracks, Jaime Alguersuari. He didn t do very well, last year, but I think he developed himself to a fine driver, who can nicely overtake and who is at the moment very reliable and also consistent... He finished every single race of this season so far and everytime brtween 9th and 13th position... So, my question is, what do you think guys, is he gonna be better in the future as his current teammate Sébastien Buemi? Buemi is still doing better in qualifying, but I think Jaime is closing the gap... I would like to put here also some comparison statistics, if there will be an interest...

Greetings to you all from Marco

[Pucky the Whale 0]

Welcome to the forums, Marco!

I really, really dislike Jaime Alguersuari, but there's no denying that he has been much more impressive than Buemi. Minus Montréal, Buemi's just had a rubbish season, while Alguersuari has shown massive progress from 2009, especially considering how massive of a leap he took from WSR to F1. I don't see either being elite drivers, though I have been pleasantly surprised by some of their drives. If Buemi can bring what he brought to Montréal every weekend, I'll have to seriously reconsider how I've evaluated him.

Buemi, for the record, was under a lot of pressure from Red Bull prior to the Grand Prix du Canada; the message essentially was get it together or get a new job. Hopefully he'll stay motivated whether his job's under threat or not...you have to really want it to stay in F1. I'd like to see Buemi succeed over Alguersuari, of course, but it's tough to say. Jaime really has surprised me.

[marcoferrari 0]

Thank you for a welcome, mate... But why do you dislike Alguersuari? Can you tell me, if it is not a secret?

[JHS 1]

Alguersuari has massively stepped up from alst year. He needed to, but for certain, I think he's currently a better driver than Buemi. Saying that I don't believe any should get a promotion to Red Bull. For me it's easy to tell that neither are in the same league as Vettel or Webber currently. But I guess that's to be expected.

[Persevere 0]

Good thread, marco, and welcome to the Forum.

If there was truth to the paddock talk then, yes, Buemi recently had some heat put on him by the team to get it together and he showed his stuff nicely in Montreal. If that was his wake-up call and we see more of the same as the season continues than good for him and good for the team for motivating/prodding their driver. Alguersuari has shown considerable 'flair' during moments of qualifying and during the race; in fact he can be quite impressive at times. I think they both show potential, both have speed and the 2010 Toro Rosso is not bad. I don't see World Championship material necessarily but I see young drivers who could continue to improve, mature (in every sense of the word) and start producing consistently strong results.

[marcoferrari 0]

Thank you for repply, guys... Actually, I am more an Alguersuari then Buemi fan... I know both aren t showed that much on screen, but it is because they drive for an average team Toro Rosso... All attention is concentrated on big teams and their drivers... But everyone must start from somewhere... For example a great driver and a two times world champion Fernando Alonso also had a tough time in small Minardi... He also didn t get much attention at that time and now he is a first class driver... What I am surprised about Alguersuari is, that he offered some nice overtaking and battles this year... For example with Michael Schumacher in Australia, with Adrian Sutil in China, with Nico Hulkenberg in Malaysia and Spain and with Vitaly Petrov again in Malaysia... There was even more overtaking from him, but these battles were the prettiest, I think... Another interesting thing are his starts... He got permanently more or less positions in the first lap (only China was an exception) and didn t collide with anyone... On other hand teammate Buemi lost positions almost everytime on first lap (only Malaysia, Monaco and Canada were an exception) and even crashed at the beginning of the race 4 times...

What I consider as impressive, compared to other rookies or unexperienced drivers like Buemi, Hulkenberg, Petrov, Di Grassi, Senna or Chandhok, is that Jaime finished every race of this season and still between postions 9 and 13... So there is also a great consistency in performances and results coming from him...

At the moment, his only weak point is qualifying... In Q1 he outpaced Buemi 5 times this year, but in Q2 Buemi everytime (except China) sets the last magic lap and beats him... But the truth is, Alguersuari is closing the gap and I wouldn t be surprised, if he could really match Buemi also in qualifying on those tracks, that he knows from last year... Overall, I think Jaime has a great future ahead of him... He is constantly improving, he is a good starter, overtakes when its needed, he is reliable and also consistent... What else does he need? Off course a better car... I hope he will stay in F1 (it would be a surprise for me, if not) and get one soon...

I hope I didn t bore you too much, guys...

Good thread, marco, and welcome to the Forum.

If there was truth to the paddock talk then, yes, Buemi recently had some heat put on him by the team to get it together and he showed his stuff nicely in Montreal. If that was his wake-up call and we see more of the same as the season continues than good for him and good for the team for motivating/prodding their driver. Alguersuari has shown considerable 'flair' during moments of qualifying and during the race; in fact he can be quite impressive at times. I think they both show potential, both have speed and the 2010 Toro Rosso is not bad. I don't see World Championship material necessarily but I see young drivers who could continue to improve, mature (in every sense of the word) and start producing consistently strong results.

[riseofstars 0]

Both are well trained drivers. But I believe Jaime has more talent as a racer. Also it is unfair to compare rookies from other teams. Vitaly and Karun have impressed. Karun has been generally faster than highly rated Bruno. Plus he has shown some good consistent performance. Vitaly although has been outclassed by his teammate but he has hogged the limelight by some impressive performance. I wont blame Di Grassi because their car has been the most inconsistent in terms of equality this season (Atleast HRT had given similar cars to both their drivers even though they were slower.) Sorry to drift away from the Toro Rosso pair. I will pick Jaime over Buemi here.

[marcoferrari 0]

This is interesting... After one good performance they want to put Buemi in one team with Vettel? I don t know, if that would be a good decision... Buemi on one day can shine and on another day, he can collide with someone and fall at the back of the grid... He did exactly that in Turkey and also in Spain... In Malaysia he had a contact during race... So, if it is true, then I consider it as strange....

http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/343784/Red_Bull_want_Buemi_for_2012/

[JHS 1]

This is interesting... After one good performance they want to put Buemi in one team with Vettel? I don t know, if that would be a good decision... Buemi on one day can shine and on another day, he can collide with someone and fall at the back of the grid... He did exactly that in Turkey and also in Spain... In Malaysia he had a contact during race... So, if it is true, then I consider it as strange....

http://www.totalf1.c...Buemi_for_2012/

I guess it is surely a marketing thing. I guess the team would ideally like to have two fast drivers winning races for them who have come through the Red Bull junior driver programme. Seb, Jaime and Buemi have come through that, where Mark hasn't.

[Mike 5 0]

Dear all, <BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">

Interesting discussion of this forum. I am a psychologist specialized in sports and I’ve had a passion for F1 for over 30 years. I work for a first division club and take care of evaluating players from the pool of 10-20 years.

With Alguersuari a new concept in F1 opens up.

Everyone who loves F1 will have to learn to appreciate in a different way the young talents who come to the F1 with less than 22 years and without any previous test experience in F1.

I d give you an example of the difficulty of being 19 years (lack of maturity), and no previous test in F1 (no experience).

Sebastian Buemi was the last driver who debuted in F1 without the test ban.

Buemi Bahrain debuted in 2009 with 20 years and 5 months, Buemi comes to Bahrain in 2009 with approximately 60 days of test which is the equivalent to 30,000 km of F1.

Jaime debuted one year younger than Buemi in the middle of the season in Hungary 2009, without having ever given a full lap in F1.

Do you perceive the difference ...

Zero experience in Qualifying, zero experience in F1 at a young age when the best drivers are still in the FR 2.0 or in the best cases in Formula 3.

My experience tells me that in 99% of the cases the anticipated debut of an inexperienced young athlete in a professional championship ends in failure.

What happens to the 1%?

They are the geniuses, the top sportsmen. So it’s the case of Rafa Nadal, world number one tennis player or Messi, number one in world football.

What Red Bull in Hungary 2009 asked Jaime to do with 19 years and 4 months, had a 99% chance of ending up in a spectacular failure, destroying the precious Toro Rossos against the walls of the circuits.

In my academic standpoint, the debut of Jaime in 2009 was so exceptional and spectacular due to his age and his particular conditions that it will be remembered in the future as exceptional within the F1 history.

When I ask myself who has more future: Buemi or Jaime? I think Red Bull has the best two young drivers of the world.

They are in my opinion very similar to Vettel but with different characteristics.

Although, I believe that Alguersuari due to his mental stability, physical strength and intelligence will have a brilliant future in F1 star in the coming years, for me is unquestionable that both drivers have their future assured in F1.</SPAN></SPAN>

[Pucky the Whale 0]

Thank you for a welcome, mate... But why do you dislike Alguersuari? Can you tell me, if it is not a secret?

I just find Alguersuari to be arrogant, that's all. I have no problems with him on the track, though, as he's gotten much better.

This is interesting... After one good performance they want to put Buemi in one team with Vettel? I don t know, if that would be a good decision... Buemi on one day can shine and on another day, he can collide with someone and fall at the back of the grid... He did exactly that in Turkey and also in Spain... In Malaysia he had a contact during race... So, if it is true, then I consider it as strange....

http://www.totalf1.c...Buemi_for_2012/

I wouldn't take that too seriously. The source is Blick. Consider they aren't particularly reliable and are Swiss, just like Buemi. Reporting on a made-up rumor about their nation's driver just to generate interest has become all-too-common in many newspapers. Red Bull will replace Webber in 2012 with the best candidate; Buemi could be it, but I'm sure they'll look around, too. If Kubica or Rosberg were to become available, for example, they might look to one of them.

[marcoferrari 0]

Pucky the Whale, in which situations do you think is he behaving arrogant? In interviews? Or, when he gets in touch with fans, who want autographs? Or do you know him personally? I don t, so can t judge him... Maybe here in this forum is someone from Spain and has met with Alguersuari already... Would be nice to know, how he really is, if the first look isn t just misleading...

[marcoferrari 0]

Dear all, <BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">

Interesting discussion of this forum. I am a psychologist specialized in sports and I’ve had a passion for F1 for over 30 years. I work for a first division club and take care of evaluating players from the pool of 10-20 years.

With Alguersuari a new concept in F1 opens up.

Everyone who loves F1 will have to learn to appreciate in a different way the young talents who come to the F1 with less than 22 years and without any previous test experience in F1.

I d give you an example of the difficulty of being 19 years (lack of maturity), and no previous test in F1 (no experience).

Sebastian Buemi was the last driver who debuted in F1 without the test ban.

Buemi Bahrain debuted in 2009 with 20 years and 5 months, Buemi comes to Bahrain in 2009 with approximately 60 days of test which is the equivalent to 30,000 km of F1.

Jaime debuted one year younger than Buemi in the middle of the season in Hungary 2009, without having ever given a full lap in F1.

Do you perceive the difference ...

Zero experience in Qualifying, zero experience in F1 at a young age when the best drivers are still in the FR 2.0 or in the best cases in Formula 3.

My experience tells me that in 99% of the cases the anticipated debut of an inexperienced young athlete in a professional championship ends in failure.

What happens to the 1%?

They are the geniuses, the top sportsmen. So it’s the case of Rafa Nadal, world number one tennis player or Messi, number one in world football.

What Red Bull in Hungary 2009 asked Jaime to do with 19 years and 4 months, had a 99% chance of ending up in a spectacular failure, destroying the precious Toro Rossos against the walls of the circuits.

In my academic standpoint, the debut of Jaime in 2009 was so exceptional and spectacular due to his age and his particular conditions that it will be remembered in the future as exceptional within the F1 history.

When I ask myself who has more future: Buemi or Jaime? I think Red Bull has the best two young drivers of the world.

They are in my opinion very similar to Vettel but with different characteristics.

Although, I believe that Alguersuari due to his mental stability, physical strength and intelligence will have a brilliant future in F1 star in the coming years, for me is unquestionable that both drivers have their future assured in F1.</SPAN></SPAN>

Thank you very much for an interesting opinion and view... I also think Alguersuari can do well in future... It is interesting that only four other drivers finished all 8 races of this season... Off course, he made some mistakes, especially colliding 2 times with lap down slower driving Karun Chandhok, but he didn t loose that much positions... A pity was he lost precious time during his first pitstop in Spain, when he was battling for 9th position with Robert Kubica...

[Pucky the Whale 0]

Pucky the Whale, in which situations do you think is he behaving arrogant? In interviews? Or, when he gets in touch with fans, who want autographs? Or do you know him personally? I don t, so can t judge him... Maybe here in this forum is someone from Spain and has met with Alguersuari already... Would be nice to know, how he really is, if the first look isn t just misleading...

I haven't met Alguersuari, so I could be wrong, obviously, but a lot of his interviews/quotes in the media have seemed kind of arrogant to me. That said, every F1 driver has some arrogance, and Alguersuari is doing his job in the races now.

[maure 1]

Alguersuarus hands down. A superior racer to Buemi and a whole lot more others.

But the whims of F1 give a sht about talent, performance, or any other quality for that matter. There you have Massa renewed by Ferrari without any logic whatsoever... and that is just in recent news. If you take into consideration the last few years, you will see a huge mess when it comes to driver management. So, there. Ferrari has given up almost any chance at the constructor's championship (for years to come) in exchange of... what again? Influence at Todt's court? Please.

So Alguersuarus might find his way into a real drive (undeserved Hamilton, most deserved Vettel) or be swapped into an impossible position (Kova) or dissapeared regardless of his/her capacity (too many to name). F1 is a business and as a business is a microcosm of cowards where only the most unscrupulous thieves thrive.

[AleHop 0]

Pucky the Whale, in which situations do you think is he behaving arrogant? In interviews? Or, when he gets in touch with fans, who want autographs? Or do you know him personally? I don t, so can t judge him... Maybe here in this forum is someone from Spain and has met with Alguersuari already... Would be nice to know, how he really is, if the first look isn t just misleading...

Welcome marco.

I am from Spain and I don't think he is arrogant. Yes, I've found some of his comments a bit arrogant but I can find similar and even worse comments in nearly every F1 driver. Actually I find his talking a bit insipid but I think he's got some talent and he's developing it.

In Canada Alguersuari and Buemi had completely different tyre strategies and Buemi's proved better. AFAIK it was Toro Rosso who decided not to have both drivers on the same type of tyre at the start and rightly so.

[marcoferrari 0]

Alguersuarus hands down. A superior racer to Buemi and a whole lot more others.

But the whims of F1 give a sht about talent, performance, or any other quality for that matter. There you have Massa renewed by Ferrari without any logic whatsoever... and that is just in recent news. If you take into consideration the last few years, you will see a huge mess when it comes to driver management. So, there. Ferrari has given up almost any chance at the constructor's championship (for years to come) in exchange of... what again? Influence at Todt's court? Please.

So Alguersuarus might find his way into a real drive (undeserved Hamilton, most deserved Vettel) or be swapped into an impossible position (Kova) or dissapeared regardless of his/her capacity (too many to name). F1 is a business and as a business is a microcosm of cowards where only the most unscrupulous thieves thrive.

So, it seems we two have the same opinion on Alguersuari.

I know he is not the theme of this topic, but still I would like to write few words about Felipe Massa. Yes, his speed in this season is horrible... Don t know what is the problem, maybe it is related really to his problems with tyres, but I think the reason of his downfall could be also last

year s crash in Hungary and fact, that he is a fresh father. I really can t remember him being so slow in Ferrari... From the times, when he came to team in 2006 he was constantly improving... Hungary 2009 was a radical change... Days of improvement were gone and from that event, I don t see the "old" Massa anymore...

[marcoferrari 0]

Welcome marco.

I am from Spain and I don't think he is arrogant. Yes, I've found some of his comments a bit arrogant but I can find similar and even worse comments in nearly every F1 driver. Actually I find his talking a bit insipid but I think he's got some talent and he's developing it.

In Canada Alguersuari and Buemi had completely different tyre strategies and Buemi's proved better. AFAIK it was Toro Rosso who decided not to have both drivers on the same type of tyre at the start and rightly so.

I never read something from Alguersuari in style of Nelsinho Piquet, who often said "in right car I will be champion and I am on the same level as Hamilton." Off course Jaime said in interviews, that one day, he would like to become a champion and even fight with Fernando Alonso, but I think that is a dream of most drivers on the grid. I previewed some videos with Alguersuari, where is he signing autographs for fans. He looked a bit bored to me, but when I compared it with other guys in Formula One (last year s Grosjean or Rosberg) they looked the same. Maybe only Lewis Hamilton behaved in other way and even tryied to conversate with fans and also smiled from time to time. I think it is hard to judge, when you don t know a driver personally.

And about the tyre difference of Toro Rosso cars in Canada. Yes, you are right, I read about it few days ago. Jaime was in a disadvantage I think, because even Jenson Button, who we all know as a driver who conserve the tyres maybe at most had in first laps of Canada Grand Prix big problems... Also Jaime had to pit very early (still he was yet again in front of Buemi after start and first 4 laps), so he dropped down the field, while Sébastien with the hard tyres used the situation to take a short lead... He even used those unwanted soft tyres just at the end of the race, when track offered much more grip... Still, a time difference between Buemi and Alguersuari after crossing finish line was only 8 seconds...

[AleHop 0]

I know he is not the theme of this topic, but still I would like to write few words about Felipe Massa. Yes, his speed in this season is horrible... Don t know what is the problem, maybe it is related really to his problems with tyres, but I think the reason of his downfall could be also last

year s crash in Hungary and fact, that he is a fresh father. I really can t remember him being so slow in Ferrari... From the times, when he came to team in 2006 he was constantly improving... Hungary 2009 was a radical change... Days of improvement were gone and from that event, I don t see the "old" Massa anymore...

What I don't understand is why Ferrari didn't wait a few months before resigning Massa. He's not performing as expected and there was no rush for a renewal. I think he is fully recovered from his accident in Hungary, Ferrari wouldn't have extended his contract otherwise.

[marcoferrari 0]

What I don't understand is why Ferrari didn't wait a few months before resigning Massa. He's not performing as expected and there was no rush for a renewal. I think he is fully recovered from his accident in Hungary, Ferrari wouldn't have extended his contract otherwise.

From physical side, I think yes, Massa has recovered... But my opinion is, it is all in Massa s head now... He doesn t want to talk about his crash and even laughs about it, but I am not sure he has that accident full behind him... In my opinion, he is now thinking about just everything - what he can risk on the track and what not... He finished all 8 races of this season, and I didn t remember when he did something similar? As far as I know, in Formula 1 never... I see there a bit of a comparison with Niki Lauda... He won a title in 1984, but was awfully lot slower then Prost, mostly in qualifyings... Alain beated him 15:1 !!! He was never that fast as in his "golden years" 1974, 1975 and 1976... I don t want to say, that Massa before crash would do better then Alonso - no... I think Fernando is with Hamilton the best driver on grid... But the speed gap, which is actually about half second, would be some two tenths... Kimi Räikkonen wasn t so far of Fernando s speed and remember Massa outpaced Räikkonen many times...

[marcoferrari 0]

Comparison between Buemi and Alguersuari - 8 races of last season and (so far) 8 races of this season:

Qualifying:

Best position of Buemi in 2009 - 6th

Best position of Buemi in 2010 - 12th

Average position of Buemi in 2009 - 12,625

Average position of Buemi in 2010 - 13,750

Best position of Alguersuari in 2009 - 12th

Best position of Alguersuari in 2010 - 12th

Average position of Alguersuari in 2009 - 16,875

Average position of Alguersuari in 2010 - 15,750

Q1 battle in 2009 - 8:0 for Buemi

Q1 battle in 2010 - 5:3 for Alguersuari

Q2 battle in 2009 - 3:0 for Buemi

Q2 battle in 2010 - 6:1 for Buemi

Race:

Best position of Buemi in 2009 - 7th

Best position of Buemi in 2010 - 8th

Avarage position of Buemi in 2009 - 11,200

Average position of Buemi in 2010 - 12,200

Best position of Alguersuari in 2009 - 14th

Best position of Alguersuari in 2010 - 9th

Average position of Alguersuari in 2009 - 15,000

Average position of Alguersuari in 2010 - 11,375

Battle in 2009 - finished races - equality - 1:1

Battle in 2010 - finished races - equality - 2:2

Scored points by Buemi in 2009 - 3

Scored points by Buemi in 2010 - 5

Scored points by Alguersuari in 2009 - 0

Scored points by Alguersuari in 2010 - 3

Finished races by Buemi in 2009 - 5

Finished races by Buemi in 2010 - 4

Finished races by Alguersuari in 2009 - 3

Finished races by Alguersuari in 2010 - 8 (all)

Additional statistics: *

Average racing position of Buemi in 2009 - 13,318

Average racing position of Buemi in 2010 - 13,646

Average racing position of Alguersuari in 2009 - 15,625

Average racing position of Alguersuari in 2010 - 11,881

*Data comes from "lap by lap" chart, which can be found at statsf1.com.

It does not reflect only the finish position, but also positions at the beginning

and in the middle of a race added together and made to a single average number

Fastest laps:

Best position of Buemi in fastest lap chart in 2009 - 2nd

Best position of Buemi in fastest lap chart in 2010 - 3rd

Average position of Buemi in fastest lap chart in 2009 - 11,500

Average position of Buemi in fastest lap chart in 2010 - 10,333

Best position of Alguersuari in fastest lap chart in 2009 - 13th

Best position of Alguersuari in fastest lap chart in 2010 - 3rd

Average position of Alguersuari in fastest lap chart in 2009 - 17,142

Average position of Alguersuari in fastest lap chart in 2010 - 10,0

[dribbler 6]

From physical side, I think yes, Massa has recovered... But my opinion is, it is all in Massa s head now... He doesn t want to talk about his crash and even laughs about it, but I am not sure he has that accident full behind him... In my opinion, he is now thinking about just everything - what he can risk on the track and what not... He finished all 8 races of this season, and I didn t remember when he did something similar? As far as I know, in Formula 1 never... I see there a bit of a comparison with Niki Lauda... He won a title in 1984, but was awfully lot slower then Prost, mostly in qualifyings... Alain beated him 15:1 !!! He was never that fast as in his "golden years" 1974, 1975 and 1976... I don t want to say, that Massa before crash would do better then Alonso - no... I think Fernando is with Hamilton the best driver on grid... But the speed gap, which is actually about half second, would be some two tenths... Kimi Räikkonen wasn t so far of Fernando s speed and remember Massa outpaced Räikkonen many times...

Felipe had a freakish accident that was out of his control. I think it would be on his mind if he had been to blame, but it wasn't. Alonso is faster than Massa and it's that simple. Ferrari have resigned Massa, I suspect, to keep Alonso happy because he knows he already has him contained and he can get on with the business of driving undistracted.

[marcoferrari 0]

Best performances of Sébastien Buemi in 8 this season s races:

1. Canada - average position in race - 7,565

2. Monaco - average position in race - 11,217

3. Malaysia - average position in race - 12,142

4. Bahrain - average position in race - 13,565

5. Spain - average position in race - 17,690

6. Turkey - average position in race - 19,701

7. China - average position in race - None - no laps completed

8. Australia - average position in race - None - no laps completed

Best performances of Jaime Alguersuari in 8 this season s races:

1. Malaysia - average position in race - 10,125

2. Spain - average position in race - 10,523

3. China - average position in race - 11,285

4. Australia - average position in race - 11,534

5. Canada - average position in race - 11,594

6. Monaco - average position in race - 13,076

7. Turkey - average position in race - 13,327

8. Bahrain - average position in race - 13,591

Average race position of Buemi in all 8 races - 13,646 /17th overall/

Average race position of Alguersuari in all 8 races - 11,881 /14th overall/

[marcoferrari 0]

Good to see Jaime beating Buemi again after China... It was a surprise for me how well he did today, with 4 tenths advantage above team mate... Also De La Rosa's time was very near... I hope 15th place on grid will bring him the same luck as in Spain...

Battle between Buemi and Alguersuari after 11 qualifyings of the season 2010 so far:

Q1 - 6:5 for Buemi - average gap of Alguersuari = + 0,109 s

Q2 - 9:2 for Buemi - average gap of Alguersuari = + 0,248 s

Best qualifying position of Buemi - 11.

Best qualifying position of Alguersuari - 12.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

wow never seen so much information on Jaime Alguersuari (I know I cant spell it)!

Welcome to the forums. It's really hard to compare team-mates in the slower cars