VicVenom 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2017 21 minutes ago, Quiet One said: From another site: SKY are idiots. But hold on, they're British, yet they put Vettel on top. So much for British bias. Max and Alonso have been the best drivers this season. In a league of their own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted June 27, 2017 13 minutes ago, VicVenom said: SKY are idiots. But hold on, they're British, yet they put Vettel on top. So much for British bias. Max and Alonso have been the best drivers this season. In a league of their own. Anyone who would'nt give Vettel the top rank in terms of driver ratings so far this year, even his worst enemy, would be sick in his head You remind me of a guy that use to post here... what's his name again... Emmcee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VicVenom 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2017 10 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said: Anyone who would'nt give Vettel the top rank in terms of driver ratings so far this year, even his worst enemy, would be sick in his head Stop it. You're making my sides split. Are you saying that AMUS is sick in the head? But wait, that would infer that SKY isn't. Yet they are British. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted June 27, 2017 15 minutes ago, VicVenom said: Stop it. You're making my sides split. Are you saying that AMUS is sick in the head? But wait, that would infer that SKY isn't. Yet they are British. Correct. Your sides are definately split Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Publius Cornelius Scipio 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2017 26 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said: You remind me of a guy that use to post here... what's his name again... Emmcee Where has he gone? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VicVenom 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2017 10 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said: Correct. Your sides are definately split "definitely" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said: Where has he gone? He is back as venomous Vic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2017 Dear JV to rescue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ruslan 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2017 The fact that Vettel needs people to "rescue" him is part of the problem. The second hit on Lewis was dumb on his part. He already has 6 points on his license from 3 previous incidents (how many does Lewis have?), now has 9. Has to drive very carefully the next race or will be suspended for a race. Another driver could have a field day at his expense. Anyhow, I gather at least one steward discussed banning him, but choose not to as he was a championship contender. Makes you wonder, if he was not in contention, would he have been banned? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted June 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, Ruslan said: The fact that Vettel needs people to "rescue" him is part of the problem. The second hit on Lewis was dumb on his part. He already has 6 points on his license from 3 previous incidents (how many does Lewis have?), now has 9. Has to drive very carefully the next race or will be suspended for a race. Another driver could have a field day at his expense. Anyhow, I gather at least one steward discussed banning him, but choose not to as he was a championship contender. Makes you wonder, if he was not in contention, would he have been banned? You're convieniently avoiding the other half of the problem, the one where the other one were brake testing to cause the rift in the first place Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ruslan 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2017 I am avoiding the first incident....as it is hard to resolve. But....it is a separate problem. The pulling up next to someone and deliberately driving the car into him is a separate incident and a somewhat unique solution. I can only remember a few incidents like this in racing, maybe about one every 10 or so years. This is hardly a normal reaction or a normal incident. It is what got him the penalty. There was no penalties issued in the first incident, which did result in Vettel hitting Hamilton in the rear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lipstick79 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2017 FIA outcome; Basically, NOT a racing incident but, a handbags incident!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted June 28, 2017 5 hours ago, Ruslan said: I am avoiding the first incident....as it is hard to resolve. But....it is a separate problem. The pulling up next to someone and deliberately driving the car into him is a separate incident and a somewhat unique solution. I can only remember a few incidents like this in racing, maybe about one every 10 or so years. This is hardly a normal reaction or a normal incident. It is what got him the penalty. There was no penalties issued in the first incident, which did result in Vettel hitting Hamilton in the rear. Hard to resolve? What planet do u live on???? Hamilton brakes after exit of the corner??? Every possible footage SHOWS that! Go have a look...its on youtube videos and twitter. When you've viewed that, have a look at Vettel's onboard camera when he pulls up next to Hamilton. He basically loses control of his car gesturing to Hamilton. He's not deliberately driving into Hamilton! We're not saying its right, we're saying look at the context in which it is done. Please, in future, to avoid point being debated over and over again, read the content and arguments posted in the thread before started the cycle all over again. There were some very good points made Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ruslan 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2017 I obviously live on a different planet than you. The three race stewards looked at the same incident and saw no need to take action. The two race commentators on my TV feed (David Hobbs and Steve Matchett)) saw the same incident and pretty much concluded it was Vettel's fault. That was my initial conclusion also when I first watched, and so far, it remains my conclusion. But I can see how people can see it differently. On the other hand, there is not much too see differently in the second incident. The only real question there is the 10-second stop-and-go a sufficient penalty or should there also be a race ban. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2017 @Ruslan Part 1 of the incident - alleged use of brakes inappropriately (initial Vettel's charge) FiA (through media mouth) supposedly determined that Hamilton did not use brakes, something Wolff said as well. How much data was however examined, I am not sure, because time to verify that doesn't ring right, and it would be interesting to know how FiA determined so quickly that technicality. Did they study data or took team's word for it? We know however from his boss, who stated on Monday, that Hamilton actually slowed down right after exit from the turn. This, if I can add, for no apparent reasons (and no one questioned him about it), thus surprised Vettel who emerged behind him. At the end, brakes or down gear shift - this ended up with the same effect. Whether Hamilton behaved "correctly" I thought was rather verbiage from media, as FiA actually remained silent, and no document was issued on that part of the incident, which itself is very unusual in this particular situation, since it is one and the same incident for which car #5 was penalized. We need to realize that Hamilton's driving was judged by green flag racing rules, whereas that situation due its topographical uniqueness and under safety car regime might place his action into different light. JV, Stewart, Prost, Marko and BE (as far as I counted) are all so far of opinion, that Hamilton acted in premeditated manner. The case became political with aim to tilt championship in Hamilton's favor, all driven by factions in media. Whether Vettel really lost it and deliberately want to hit car 44, or just scare Hamilton enough and then lost it, is something I am not sure, but it is pity how poorly IMHO FiA is behaving. Hamilton is a known person who has difficulty to always tell the truth as we learned over the years, yet he receives every bit of doubt in his behavior. He changed already in Monaco when he accused Vettel of being favored, regardless of any lack of evidence to support his claim, and I think he came to Baku with his mind made up how he will play this game. He did not planned this incident, of course, but when opportunity arose, he took it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Publius Cornelius Scipio 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2017 10 hours ago, Sakae said: Dear JV to rescue. interesting, I have only 2 comments: i) I don't recall JV ever ramming into another car, not even in his early days, my memories of him are of a very nice guy and very fair driver ii) I'm not sure that Vettel needed to have both hands on the wheel to hit Hamilton on purpose, with today's power steering one hand seems more than enough, but since I've never tried that move myself I can only speculate on this subject however another driver who says cleartly that what Hamilton did was wrong (I'm not focusing on Vettel's actions since we all said that what he did was wrong) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said: interesting, I have only 2 comments: i) I don't recall JV ever ramming into another car, not even in his early days, my memories of him are of a very nice guy and very fair driver ii) I'm not sure that Vettel needed to have both hands on the wheel to hit Hamilton on purpose, with today's power steering one hand seems more than enough, but since I've never tried that move myself I can only speculate on this subject however another driver who says cleartly that what Hamilton did was wrong (I'm not focusing on Vettel's actions since we all said that what he did was wrong) I am not accusing JV of anything, however I felt when predominantly British media rushing exonerate Hamilton from wrongdoing, and putting words into FiA's mouth, then it seems only fair to include counterbalancing point of view by someone who actually has some relevant experience under his belt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Publius Cornelius Scipio 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2017 46 minutes ago, Sakae said: I am not accusing JV of anything, however I felt when predominantly British media rushing exonerate Hamilton from wrongdoing, and putting words into FiA's mouth, then it seems only fair to include counterbalancing point of view by someone who actually has some relevant experience under his belt. my comment regarding JV was only a reply to some of his statement: he said that in his days someone would have put Verstappen against a tree for his on track actions, now he says that he would have done what Vettel did, fair enough, my point is that my personal recollection of him was of a very kind and friendly chap. Other than that I agree with you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2017 9 minutes ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said: my comment regarding JV was only a reply to some of his statement: he said that in his days someone would have put Verstappen against a tree for his on track actions, now he says that he would have done what Vettel did, fair enough, my point is that my personal recollection of him was of a very kind and friendly chap. Other than that I agree with you I have history with this guy. I used to be his fan while he was racing in Atlantic series (when I lived in NA), just maybe because he was the Canadian (Quebecker) underdog, very much trashed by Torontonian Anglophile media. (Hamilton v. Vettel in replica). He ultimately belted their (overrated) darling and moved to CART or whatever name that series had at the time, had some success, and then he began with his big mouth trashing the F1 as a series for European weaklings, etc. To make long story short, he p****d me off. To my surprise a few months later he was suddenly racing in best car of the day with Williams, and still talking, this time trashing Schumacher. Then we got older, he changed, and I've changed too, forgave him, and its all good today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Publius Cornelius Scipio 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Sakae said: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted June 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said: yes, u were saying? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Publius Cornelius Scipio 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2017 23 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said: yes, u were saying? nothing really, I thought that I could delete my post but I didn't manage to... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted June 28, 2017 ...and I (mis)took it for blank stare. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Publius Cornelius Scipio 0 Report post Posted June 29, 2017 Guys what's happening, I thought that the forum would be bursting with messages for the latest developments of the Vettel saga and instead no one is talking about it... http://www.grandprix247.com/2017/06/28/fia-to-re-examine-vettel-hamilton-collision/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakae 0 Report post Posted June 29, 2017 FiA under pressure from primarily British media crumbled, and the incident has become a political decision to assist Hamilton in his bid for WDC. They have done it to Schumacher as well, and more than once. Articles are now appearing whether Ferrari should actually employ Vettel or hire instead some other darling they prefer, so they put Ferrari under political pressure as well. Arrogance and disgraceful behavior of some people with access to a notebook keyboard is overwhelming. I am staying out of it, and what has to happen it will happen. Hamilton is known over the years to have difficulty with telling the truth, but his admires don't really care how dirty he wins, as long as he wins. Hamilton slowed down significantly (re: Wolff) in exit from a turn (re: camera), and he knew Vettel was following him closely, thus hoping to surprise him as he realized what Hamilton has done, yet car 44 was let off the hook, since FiA remain silent on that issue, one of the incident instigator. That's a deal Vettel is now facing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites