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radical-one

Merc's Party Mode ?

32 posts in this topic

The first time I heard this from Lewis I thought he meant Party mood.

Is this an unfair advantage?

 

Horner wants parc ferme rules for engine modes

Date published: March 27 2018

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Christian Horner has proposed parc ferme rules for engine modes, hoping that would be go some way towards negating Mercedes’ qualifying advantage.

While qualifying in Australia looked to be a battle between Mercedes and Ferrari, it turned out to be the Lewis Hamilton show.

The British racer claimed pole position by six-tenths of a second ahead of Ferrari’s Kimi Raikkonen.

His pole was Mercedes 71st pole in the hybrid era; that’s 71 out of 80.

But while Mercedes denied that there was “any difference in modes”, rivals aren’t buying it with Red Bull team boss Horner saying something needs to be done.

“Like you have parc ferme when the cars leave for qualifying, maybe engine modes should be the same from the moment you leave the garage to the end of the grand prix,” he told Sky Sports.

“Lewis’ time came predominantly between Q2 and Q3.

“They have a qualy mode that they don’t need to use in the earlier parts of qualifying, because why stress the engine?”

Horner, however, says it is also on Renault to make inroads into Mercedes’ advantage.

“You only have to look in [Saturday’s] speed traps where all the Renault engines were grouped together with varying amounts of downforce on the car. That is where we need to make progress.

“There are bits in the pipeline. Renault are not divulging everything that they’re up to but it’s certainly something that we’re pushing for.”

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Enrico Benzing (http://www.formula1benzing.eu/) thinks that it's not a different setting but a different fuel (or, better, a different mix of fuel AND oil) that gives Mercedes their Party Mode

since all F1 cars should run on commercial fuel it would be nice to see what would happen if the FIA decided that they were all going to buy petrol from the closest petrol station from the starting line of the track (measured by Google Maps). I'm sure that we should see a few surprises. And obviouly the oil should be the same for everyone. I'd really love to see the outcome

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That would be much better in the ideal world. Like in Porsche cup and other similar GT races in Japan. They even check our oil after the race. If you get caught not using Mobil1or Pirelli and other sponsors for the race, you are disqualified. Of course F1 is an entirely different platform. 

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Sebastian Vettel feel's that Hamilton's pace during Q3 was due to Lewis's driving, and not the excuse of a party mode, which is an excuse that some would be expected to use. As Vettel simply said, " So it was clear that he just had a very good lap, and he drove well."

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/22916082/sebastian-vettel-credits-lewis-hamilton-not-mercedes-engine-pole-lap

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10 minutes ago, Samouri said:

Sebastian Vettel feel's that Hamilton's pace during Q3 was due to Lewis's driving, and not the excuse of a party mode, which is an excuse that some would be expected to use. As Vettel simply said, " So it was clear that he just had a very good lap, and he drove well."

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/22916082/sebastian-vettel-credits-lewis-hamilton-not-mercedes-engine-pole-lap

Driving well and having "good lap" doesn't precludes existence of some unusual condition as aid in lap execution. Conspiracy theory, and that's all what it is right now, is based on repeated incidents of this kind for some time, which some - like Horner - considers now more than just a simple coincidence. Horner wants a parc ferme style lock on the Q3 setup, and we would see if Hamilton can finish race as such, and stay legal.

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Horner will try to get his wish, and if successful. Still cannot stop Lewis at times, from blistering a flyer during qualifying.

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Lewis is quick yes not a question.

In the end, all we want is fair battle. That goes in any sports (Boxing, Olympics,etc)

The sports fans deserve same level playing field. 

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there are other members with some real life racing experience here and it ould be great to ear what they think of this subject, in my personal experience I have never ever seen a driver pulling 6 tenths of a second out of the bag with just an impressive lap, you are always at the limit, to improve your lap time of 6 tenths you need to have something different in your car. Let's not forget that these guys go over and over the very same things during a qualy session, what they are going to do is more or less already planned, it's very similar to a military drill. I know that it takes some of the drama out of the sport but that's how it works. You can do 2 tenths faster or slower than your target time (and your target is not something imposed by someone external, it is the result of the best sectors that you have historically achieved at that track with that car either in the previous sessions or - in this day and age - on a simulator). Sorry if I'm being brutally honest but if you think that out of the blue someone can improve his time by 6 tenths on a track where he has done hundreds of lap with that car configuration then you have a rather romantic idea of what goes on

In a sense it reminds me of a cartoon about F1 that used to be shown on tv when I was a kid, it was a Japanese production so maybe others have seen it, the drivers could achieve unbelievable speeds and all that they had to do was push the throttle, in effect when they were on a straight they were really using all their power, when necessary they would push the throttle a bit more and go much faster than the others. I was racing go karts at the time and I was thinking that maybe with cars it was really like that and once I would have managed to get into F1 (of which I was sure :) ) I would be all the others by just pushing the throttle to the floor. What I couldn't understand was why, if that was the case, someone else hadn't thought about it, in karting every kid was always using a very simple technique: floor the throttle. I then told my dad and he explained me that it was just a cartoon and that in real life every racing driver was always with the throttle to the metal :lol: that was probably 1981 or 1982 (I remember because I thought that if the guys driving for Toleman had followed the example of the cartoon they might have achieved something better than being dead last) 

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7 hours ago, radical-one said:

The sports fans deserve same level playing field. 

The assertion of this kind could use explanation in a sport such as the F1, when in stake next to WDC is also WCC, a system which defies definition of level playing field. I do however agree, that if a one driver is being helped to victories by abnormal techniques which are not available to others, than for sake of the sport either permit them all access to similar aids, or ban it across for everyone. Through history FiA inserted themselves into similar situations quite often. Why they would be protecting MB and Hamilton in this case (sudden bump of speed) is something we would have to speculate about.  They could of course at least investigate, and tell us whether there is something which should concern MB's competition, and appropriately address it.

Edited by Sakae

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Exactly my point Sakae and Publius.

I agree that Lewis is quick but I do have reservations on the part of his car. I am not accusing, just wondering.

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Would having a "party mode" have a potential impact on reliability? Is there a trade-off here?

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I am not sure what exactly "party mode" represents. I am assuming it is an abnormal state which aids a car (here MB) to operate with parameters not used in a race mode. Purpose is to exert brief spurt of energy on propelling car with extra speed which is normally not available. (Details are not clear.)   

That's how I understand it, however that's only my unconfirmed interpretation. To the second point, since extra speed will stress mechanism slightly more, it is conceivable that it affects reliability calculations. I think however this MO was planned, and as such would be built in for car to survive unaffected, if such condition is initiated infrequently and briefly (a lap distance). Should they however use it for race distance, depends what it is, but car could run out of fuel or there will be potentially reliability issues of large magnitude.

I think Horner is challenging MB, and saying - if you want to use it, then use it for whole race distance, while hoping MB cannot do that, because a car might not make it into finish line. He approached purportedly FiA and ask them to lock the car setting in Q3 for the race. If that is approved, Hamilton can have such aid in Q3, but we do not know what would happen in the race. (Could be that 3 engines might not be enough for a season, maybe a car would run out of fuel with a lap or two to go, etc.) As long as MB is stalling and denying existence of it, than we continue guessing. 

Edited by Sakae

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I assume the alleged "party mode" does not use extra fuel, as fuel is regulated and metered as to flow rate (remember the Red Bull controversy a few years back). So.....a mix of fuel and oil....or something else. 

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2 hours ago, Sakae said:

 As long as MB is stalling and denying existence of it, than we continue guessing. 

With Lewis being involved in this so-called party mode controversy. Automatically makes it an issue with some, which is to be expected, but it seems not to.....Vettel.

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I beg to differ, and I think it concerns him deeply; that, and some other personal issues he has with that car. Facial expression, and several subsequent post race comments do suggest that, despite that he might not have directly accused anyone from cheating. He said that he was puzzled by that gap. Fact is, he is not too happy right now. I do however agree, that said gap in Q3 seems to bother him least, or at least not as much as it does bother Horner.

Edited by Sakae

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It will be interesting to see in the next couple of races. Specially in Q3.

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It's difficult to trivialize smoke machine tactics, and some people's eyes are burning, however MB will not back down from any asset they have, unless forced to do so. Advantage for Hamilton shall continue whilst others will have to pick up crumbs and work tirelessly to overcome deficit, if that's possible at all. Mood in my household is not the very best one that can be after the race 1.

Edited by Sakae

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I hope the mood in your household get better to become a party one Sakae.

 

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Maybe Lewis' engine partied out ? ;)

Mercedes braces for Hamilton power unit diagnosis

ALEX WURZ

Mercedes rivals have no ‘party mode’ – Wurz

Edited by radical-one

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31 March 2018, 17:59 (CEST)   Yes, but Mr. Whiting has refused to launch investigation into alleged advantage Mercedes PU might have over its rivals, unless MB customers will join complain.

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Hopefully those current MB customers will still want to remain with Mercedes, and not join in any complaints. Otherwise their alternatives would be getting in line, for a Renault or Ferrari replacements.

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1 April 2018, 06:32 (CEST) - Hopefully Mr. Whiting as a lead hand for FiA will do what's right for the sport. The issue a.k.a. "party mode" lays not with MB's customers, but it is responsibility of the regulator. They have demonstrated their mandate in 2009, just as many times before and after that year, hence why would abdicate this responsibility in this case? My hopes aren't however too high, as FiA is not known to be exactly evenhanded.

-----------------

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning." -Albert Einstein

Edited by Sakae

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1 hour ago, lipstick79 said:

What makes U say that,  Mr Einstein ??

Can U show me some evidence,  Mr Einstein ??

How can I, mere mortal, can succeed where Einstein's wisdom failed? 

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If U can dream  it,  U CAN achieve it
But the question is, can U dream  it??

Second is first of the losers,
What are you going to do - win or lose ??

Edited by lipstick79

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