Montoya

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I think that if they were like father and son, then kimi would re-sign for mclaren!! This driver/manager father/son thing in F1 shouldnt be taken too seriously, just remember Dave Richards and J Button in 2004 - once Richards had gone, we all found out that they hated each others guts! We never see kimi and Ron hug and laugh together like Mika and Ron did! And I dont think that it can really be used as an excuse for the other mclaren driver underperforming

[BradSpeedMan 6]

remember 03 season )....it was FIA that destroyed JP chances of trying to stay in contest in US GP!

No, they were'nt responsible, JPM destroyed his own changes running into the side of (Barrichello?) in rainy conditions.

"Jemstride Posted Today, 01:43 PM

I think that if they were like father and son, then kimi would re-sign for mclaren!! This driver/manager father/son thing in F1 shouldnt be taken too seriously, just remember Dave Richards and J Button in 2004 - once Richards had gone, we all found out that they hated each others guts! We never see kimi and Ron hug and laugh together like Mika and Ron did! And I dont think that it can really be used as an excuse for the other mclaren driver underperforming"

exactly!

[UrKo 0]

I dont think that it can really be used as an excuse for the other mclaren driver underperforming

In a way it is an excuse as you're not treated the same way as other driver and it can go into your subconscious and at the end of the day you don't get the result you're capable of.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

In a way it is an excuse as you're not treated the same way as other driver and it can go into your subconscious and at the end of the day you don't get the result you're capable of.

But even though 1 driver may be more chummy with the manager than the other driver, they both get provided with the same equipment, a truly good driver should not be affected pyschologically by the fact that even if he wins he doesnt get a hug, whereas his team-mate does!

And its not like DC and Ron were enemies

[UrKo 0]

No, they were'nt responsible, JPM destroyed his own changes running into the side of (Barrichello?) in rainy conditions.

True, but every1 agreed ( team owners, drivers, even some FIA delegates ) that the accident was a racing accident which shouldn't end up as drive through penalty (or it was 10sec??)!

But even though 1 driver may be more chummy with the manager than the other driver, they both get provided with the same equipment, a truly good driver should not be affected pyschologically by the fact that even if he wins he doesnt get a hug, whereas his team-mate does!

And its not like DC and Ron were enemies

I agree with you...but as each person is different, there's also different things that some drivers maybe need in order to get the results...Maybe JP needs a little more support.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

In a way it is an excuse as you're not treated the same way as other driver and it can go into your subconscious and at the end of the day you don't get the result you're capable of.

You're right....Maybe Ron Dennis should pat Montoya and hug him b4 each race so he can really perform! Maybe he's just a little baby that can't take the heat and needs acceptance from everyone....etc etc

Maybe JP needs a little more support.

He's got support! Martin Whitmarsh and Norbert Haug and his engineers always talk about their support for him....

[Jem of the Shire 0]

True, but every1 agreed ( team owners, drivers, even some FIA delegates ) that the accident was a racing accident which shouldn't end up as drive through penalty (or it was 10sec??)!

I agree with you...but as each person is different, there's also different things that some drivers maybe need in order to get the results...Maybe JP needs a little more support.

Well luckily (in a way) at the final race in suzuka JPM's engine blew anyway, whilst leading, so it didnt make any difference in the end!

[UrKo 0]

You're right....Maybe Ron Dennis should pat Montoya and hug him b4 each race so he can really perform!

Well I wasn't thinking something like that .

He's got support! Martin Whitmarsh and Norbert Haug and his engineers always talk about their support for him....

Ferrari also said that there are no team orders and both drivers are treated equal!!

You see, you can never tell what will happen in F1 teams, as today they are saying 1 thing and tomorrow is a different story!

Which is why F1 forums are so popular

[BradSpeedMan 6]

True, but every1 agreed ( team owners, drivers, even some FIA delegates ) that the accident was a racing accident which shouldn't end up as drive through penalty (or it was 10sec??)!

i forgot about the penalty he got.... u're right about that, it was a racing accident

[ykickamoocow 0]

I think that in 2001 and 2002 DC really stepped up a gear and drove like someone who was capable of fighting for the championship - unfortunately the Ferrari was too strong.

I should include 2000 as well when DC was on pretty much same level as Mika and wasnt beaten by much in the end. Sadly though 2003 and 2004 were very different

I agree. DC could have won the championship in 1997, 2001 and 2002 if McLaren gave him a car capable of winning championships. Unfortuantly the only time McLaren really gave him a good car was in 1998 but DC had a off year (which every driver has) so he wasnt dominating Hakkenin like he was in 1997.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I agree. DC could have won the championship in 1997, 2001 and 2002 if McLaren gave him a car capable of winning championships. Unfortuantly the only time McLaren really gave him a good car was in 1998 but DC had a off year (which every driver has) so he wasnt dominating Hakkenin like he was in 1997.

Even as a DC fan I wouldnt go so far as to say DC dominated Hakkinen in 97, cos he didnt. I dont think 'having an off year' is an excuse for not winning!! In 1998 DC simply wasnt as fast as Hakkinen, you need to accept that.

I think with almost any driver you could say that they can win the title given a championship winning car!

[ykickamoocow 0]

Even as a DC fan I wouldnt go so far as to say DC dominated Hakkinen in 97, cos he didnt. I dont think 'having an off year' is an excuse for not winning!! In 1998 DC simply wasnt as fast as Hakkinen, you need to accept that.

I think with almost any driver you could say that they can win the title given a championship winning car!

Well everyone has off years. It is true that most drivers can win in far superior cars (that explains Rubens) but im talking about McLare making a car equal to the Ferrari in 2001 or 2002. DC has beaten MS many times in cars which arnt as good as the Ferrari.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Well everyone has off years. It is true that most drivers can win in far superior cars (that explains Rubens) but im talking about McLare making a car equal to the Ferrari in 2001 or 2002. DC has beaten MS many times in cars which arnt as good as the Ferrari.

That is true (about DC beating Schuey) but I'm not sure I agree with you about all drivers having off years, there would be no excuse for a driver to be not at his best for a whole year!

[ykickamoocow 0]

That is true (about DC beating Schuey) but I'm not sure I agree with you about all drivers having off years, there would be no excuse for a driver to be not at his best for a whole year!

Not many drivers can say that they have beaten MS in inferior machinary. As for 1998 DC did have a off year but he should have had 1 if not 2 more wins if Ron Dennis didnt order him to move over. Remember back in 1998 the difference between 1st and 2nd was 4 points which means that DC should be at least 8 points closer to Hakkenin than the statistics show.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

You're right that not many drivers have beaten MS in a fight like DC has, but there arent really any excuses for DC being beaten by Mika in 1998, whatever the points system, cos DC was nearly always behind Mika (only by a couple of tenths). DC should've won melbourne, and was leading in monza when his engine blew, but even so he was generally just simply not fast enough to beat Hakkinen

[ykickamoocow 0]

You're right that not many drivers have beaten MS in a fight like DC has, but there arent really any excuses for DC being beaten by Mika in 1998, whatever the points system, cos DC was nearly always behind Mika (only by a couple of tenths). DC should've won melbourne, and was leading in monza when his engine blew, but even so he was generally just simply not fast enough to beat Hakkinen

DC did have a bad year in 1998 but under the new points system DC would have done alot better, i think he got about 5 second placings. Unfortunatly in the years DC was doing really well he either didnt have a fast enough car or had the most unreliable car on the planet.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

DC did have a bad year in 1998 but under the new points system DC would have done alot better, i think he got about 5 second placings. Unfortunatly in the years DC was doing really well he either didnt have a fast enough car or had the most unreliable car on the planet.

True, and he's got a pretty good placing in the all-time highest points scorers list!

[ykickamoocow 0]

True, and he's got a pretty good placing in the all-time highest points scorers list!

Yeah, he just got his 500th point in the Australian GP. Aparently hes scored more points than any other British driver. Its kind of funny that the most successful British driver (points wise) reached a milestone by figeratively kicking the crap out of an American.

[pumpdoc 2]

Yeah, he just got his 500th point in the Australian GP. Aparently hes scored more points than any other British driver. Its kind of funny that the most successful British driver (points wise) reached a milestone by figeratively kicking the crap out of an American.

Must have watched a different race

[ykickamoocow 0]

Must have watched a different race

I said figuratively.

[pumpdoc 2]

I said figuratively.

Yes I know...............The only kicking he did was on the door when he realised that the only way he'd 'beat' the American was to p**s-n-moan

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Not difficult to beat americans at motor racing

[pumpdoc 2]

Not difficult to beat americans at motor racing

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Not difficult to beat americans at motor racing

U're heading for BIG trouble there mate

[ykickamoocow 0]

Yes I know...............The only kicking he did was on the door when he realised that the only way he'd 'beat' the American was to p**s-n-moan

Not true, the Brits are know for their stiff upper lips and DC is no different. And while on my rash generalisations Americans are know for their ignorance and stupidity.