cavallino 2 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 As a Ferrari fan, call me a hypocrite if you want, but that is the worst example of team orders I have ever seen in my life. Forcing Fisi to lose at least 3 positions to let his incompetent teammate through. This just plain bloody sucks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pumpdoc 2 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 I agree it was so obvious as to be pathetic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beco 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 As a Ferrari fan, call me a hypocrite if you want, but that is the worst example of team orders I have ever seen in my life. Forcing Fisi to lose at least 3 positions to let his incompetent teammate through. This just plain bloody sucks do you not remember austria? the words: controversies and scandals spring to mind At the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix, Rubens Barrichello, was ordered by Ferrari to allow Schumacher to overtake him under "team orders" and win the Grand Prix. Barrichello let him pass on the last lap at the finish line. the consequences? FIA banned any further use of team orders in the new rules and regulations and fined the Ferrari team $1million for their actions. now that was the worst example of tema orders i have ever seen in my life, where you not watching f1 back then yes you are a hypocrite, its quite ironic really!!!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 There is a difference between swapping positions (we've seen that innumerable times) and forcing your teammate to lose 3-4 points to gain one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pumpdoc 2 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 do you not remember austria?the words: controversies and scandals spring to mind At the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix, Rubens Barrichello, was ordered by Ferrari to allow Schumacher to overtake him under "team orders" and win the Grand Prix. Barrichello let him pass on the last lap at the finish line. the consequences? FIA banned any further use of team orders in the new rules and regulations and fined the Ferrari team $1million for their actions. now that was the worst example of tema orders i have ever seen in my life, where you not watching f1 back then yes you are a hypocrite, its quite ironic really!!!!!!!! Well then Reno should be fined 1 Million then also Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
schumi13 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 Well then Reno should be fined 1 Million then also Plus from the view onboard Trulli when Fernando had the off, it seemed obviously that even though Fisi was entering the braking zone, he completely slowed down for Alonso to rejoin ahead. Had Trulli been behind Fernando he would of breezed past. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
F1 FANatic 1 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 Well then Reno should be fined 1 Million then also well with inflation it would be around 1.2 million Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 FIA banned any further use of team orders in the new rules and regulations and fined the Ferrari team $1million for their actions. Ferrari were fined for violating podium protocol. There was no rule against team orders then, at least that was better than the current farcical situation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beco 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 @Cav, LOL team orders are team orders, Ferrari are just as devious, no they are more so, as Renault and remember schumacher under Flavio at Benneton was also recieving this treatment, so its pot, kettle and black, so don't go biting the hand that has once FED Ferrari were fined for violating podium protocol. There was no rule against team orders then, at least that was better than the current farcical situation. maybe you don't understand, they introduced banning of team orders, as a knee jerk to the Austrian gp, go google it or something, i'm sure it will colloborate that. when the biggest team in f1 are getting booed like bitches on the podium, for orchestrating a disgraceful race result, you know you are in deep sh*t!!!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UrKo 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 Reno did this much better than FIArrari.... My question is why MS didn't get drive through penalty for overtaking Kimi at the start of the warm up lap.... He could let Kimi pass before the turn 1!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beco 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 Reno did this much better than FIArrari....My question is why MS didn't get drive through penalty for overtaking Kimi at the start of the warm up lap.... He could let Kimi pass before the turn 1!!!! no this was not intentional, like the Hill incident of 1994, where he did it to pi$$ off the crowd and unsettle Hill!!!!!! kimi was too slow getting off the line in the formation lap, and MS just accelerated like nromal, as soon as kimi was up and running MS didn't make no quarrells about surrending track position. there was no malice to overtaking Kimi, at SS 1994, well lets say he was just being a dirty b#####d, doing what he does best Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UrKo 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 kimi was too slow getting off the line in the formation lap, and MS just accelerated like nromal, as soon as kimi was up and running MS didn't make no quarrells about surrending track position. Well as far as i know the poleman dictate the speed of warmup lap....So if M$$ started like it was a race, he could break and let Kimi through before turn 1! Double standards yet again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 @Cav, LOL team orders are team orders, Ferrari are just as devious, no they are more so, as Renault and remember schumacher under Flavio at Benneton was also recieving this treatment, so its pot, kettle and black, so don't go biting the hand that has once FED maybe you don't understand, they introduced banning of team orders, as a knee jerk to the Austrian gp, go google it or something, i'm sure it will colloborate that. when the biggest team in f1 are getting booed like bitches on the podium, for orchestrating a disgraceful race result, you know you are in deep sh*t!!!!!!!! I didn't dispute any of that, the rule was obviously a stupid reaction to the media frenzy. Ferrari weren't fined for using team orders - that is all I am saying. The media was strangely quiet after Jerez 97 and Australia 98 though, no knee jerk reactions then funnily enough Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UrKo 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 I think they banned team orders after Australian Gp when Coulthard let Mika through in 98 i think... FIArrari filed the complaint.... And how ironic is this......FIArrari are doing this since then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beco 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 Well as far as i know the poleman dictate the speed of warmup lap....So if M$$ started like it was a race, he could break and let Kimi through before turn 1!Double standards yet again OMG, do you not understand that f1 also works on the principle of common sense? kimi was very slow getting off the line, MS just reacted as normal, kimi was the problem, his car was too slow getting off the line, MS couldn't control that, when Kimi made it off the line, Ms gave back the pole position to kimi, who dictated the pace, Ms was not dictating nothing, he was breifly in front, but soon natural order was restored, and kimi did dictate the formation. i hate ms as well, but i'm not stupid, i have seen before where the pole sitter was too slow, but regained his positon, and the second place man was not fined or punsihed, this was nothing like SS 1994. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UrKo 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 OMG, do you not understand that f1 also works on the principle of common sense?kimi was very slow getting off the line, MS just reacted as normal, kimi was the problem, his car was too slow getting off the line, MS couldn't control that, when Kimi made it off the line, Ms gave back the pole position to kimi, who dictated the pace, Ms was not dictating nothing, he was breifly in front, but soon natural order was restored, and kimi did dictate the formation. i hate ms as well, but i'm not stupid, i have seen before where the pole sitter was too slow, but regained his positon, and the second place man was not fined or punsihed, this was nothing like SS 1994. True....but usally driver slows down immediately...not after turn 1....which in this case is not couple of meters after the start finish line!!!! This is all im trying to say..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beco 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 I think they banned team orders after Australian Gp when Coulthard let Mika through in 98 i think...FIArrari filed the complaint.... And how ironic is this......FIArrari are doing this since then. no like i just posted prior, Austria 2002 was when it got banned, there was reactions like Rubens robbed http://www.crash.net/feature_view~t~Austri...d~1~id~1809.htm the FIA banned any further use of team orders in the new rules and regulations, 1998 did not see an official banning of team orders @cav, of course there was a media frenzy, it involved the not so lillywhite MS, duh!!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UrKo 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 no like i just posted prior, Austria 2002 was when it got banned, there was reactions like Rubens robbedhttp://www.crash.net/feature_view~t~Austri...d~1~id~1809.htm the FIA banned any further use of team orders in the new rules and regulations, 1998 did not see an official banning of team orders @cav, of course there was a media frenzy, it involved the not so lillywhite MS, duh!!!!!!! I remember that but wasnt sure when they have actually banned team orders...thanks for refreshing my memory Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beco 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 I remember that but wasnt sure when they have actually banned team orders...thanks for refreshing my memory you are welcome! i'm sure i'll be needing my memory refreshed by other posters on here no doubt sometime in the near future Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 @cav, of course there was a media frenzy, it involved the not so lillywhite MS, duh!!!!!!! Or course, that was far worse than inter team collusion in Jerez in '97 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beco 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 Or course, that was far worse than inter team collusion in Jerez in '97 LOL but as far as i am aware, williams and mclaren's drivers at that time where not known as being dirty cheats with a 'history' of dishonest behaviour. after 1994, the illegal traction control, illegal fuel rig, the illegal under trays, the anitcs at SS and the famous Hill wishbone clash, MS's dishonesty in that ONE season surpassed how much of a dishonest b#####d senna had been in his entire f1 career Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AutoRacer5 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 Reno did this much better than FIArrari....My question is why MS didn't get drive through penalty for overtaking Kimi at the start of the warm up lap.... He could let Kimi pass before the turn 1!!!! FIA and Ferrari are seperate. FIA is in France, Ferrari is in Italy. Some people never get it... The rules say that if it is unavoidable, it is ok, so long as order is restored quickly. Now to answer Beco: I will use examples from Steve Matchett's book, Life in the Fast Lane: Silverstone: The penalty, as given to the Benetton team, stated that they were getting a 5 second penalty for Schumacher passing on the warm-up lap. The warm-up is a practice session, so it wasn't worded correctly. Second of all, it didn't say how the penalty was to be served, by the time added on, or in the pits. Page 137 through 139 Fuel rig: Benetton cleaned out some extra material leftover from the production of the rig, and removed a filter and replaced it with a finer one. pages 167 (bottom paragraph) and 168. Undertray: It was from the result of the spin at the right-left chicane at Spa. Only a certain area had been worn down to 7.4 mm, and video evidence had shown that the kerbs were raised, thus making the explanation plausable. The plank was weighed, and was within the 10 percent of the tolerance of weight loss. (Page 183 and 184) As for the Hill clash, MS had the corner. If Hill had waited, he could have gotten him on the next straightaway. Also, as for the traction control or whatever, Steve mentions that they were disabled before the season had started, and that many other teams had simply used last year's black boxes with the software disabled, like Ferrari had and so did McLaren. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UrKo 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 FIA and Ferrari are seperate. FIA is in France, Ferrari is in Italy. Some people never get it... i was under the impression that Ferrari and FIA aka FIArrari are same Sh#t, and that they're in two different countries doesnt mean anything....o well i guess FIA and Ferrari are two seperate Sh#ts which can be combined into one named FIArrari. or maybe just Mad max and Jean Todt. As for the Hill clash, MS had the corner. If Hill had waited, he could have gotten him on the next straightaway. Would you wait??? I doubt there's a driver on the planet who would say they would wait.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pumpdoc 2 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 Don't try to confuse them with facts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 i was under the impression that Ferrari and FIA aka FIArrari are same Sh#t, and that they're in two different countries doesnt mean anything....o well i guess FIA and Ferrari are two seperate Sh#ts which can be combined into one named FIArrari. You've got a way with words, ever counsidered journalism? Do you work for grandprix.com? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
