Sexuality; What Are Your Views?

[Jem of the Shire 0]

anyway i'm at work, hence why i cant read through all 7 pages!!

[HotRod 0]

This is the sum of Bible-believing Christian. This is a must-read for everyone:

God's View of Homosexuality, Part 1

Selected Scriptures

You are well aware, I know, by now that the subject for this morning is the subject of the divine perspective or the divine view of homosexuality. We want to look at this particular issue from the eyes of God, and thus through the Word of God.

I suppose there should be some justification for isolating a sin like this and preaching on it when there are so many sins which are equally heinous to God. The answer to those who might wonder why we would isolate this one should be apparent, but just in case it isn

[pumpdoc 2]

Good gravy! does anyone read these long bible thumping posts? I hope not my finger got tired just scrolling past them...........

One thing people should learn is that by shoving this drivel upon us you don't prove any point at all, but then that's why religous people are the biggest cultists around, they drink the kool-ade(Jonestown) and blindly follow...........

[pumpdoc 2]

anyway i'm at work, hence why i cant read through all 7 pages!!

Don't your eyes will hurt.............

[HotRod 0]

Good gravy! does anyone read these long bible thumping posts? I hope not my finger got tired just scrolling past them...........

Don't read them, it might be the truth, and you know truth hurts, it might even kill. Don't read the whole thing, you might not have an answer ... Anyway I break it into two parts. Part1. then Part 2. Just for you.

[HotRod 0]

dedicated to pumpdoc: Here goes, educate yourself:

God's View of Homosexuality, Part 2

Selected Scriptures

I would invite you to begin tonight to turn to Genesis chapter 1. I just want to touch lightly on a text there that you should have in mind and then we

[HotRod 0]

excuse me? why does my post not sound intelligent?

maybe you should read up on english grammar and you would sound a bit more intelligent?

Its "maybe then you MIGHT SOUND intelligent", not "sounding" ok

Excuse me! Me not english-speaking but does not making me less intelligent. Can you speaking my language? Fluent English is not benchmark for intelligence/sounding intelligent. All intelligent people know that.

[funkejay 0]

No it isn't an opinion, because height is a known rather than God which is an unknown and you missed the whole point. Something bad doesn't happen because you 'disrespect' God, it happens because there is evil in this world. And if God created the world, he created evil, he created diseases like cancer which kill INNOCENT people so if you are going to suggest people deserve what they get you can get right out of here.

No, thankfully, I'll never look down on people just because of their sexuality and I'll never mislead people into believing I'm right when I know it is just a state of opinion. It is very low to get people to believe God through fear of what will happen otherwise, that has reflections of Stalin in it.

I'd rather study life, study reality. Reality says there is evil and now believing in something outside of this world will protect you from that evil. Lots of that evil use God as being on their side to carry out great evils. You need to open your eyes to reality and see what this world really does to its innocents.

Actually Kay_zee, I disagree. Concepts such as good and evil have no basis in reality, rather they are just perspectives on behaviour. Your assertion that evil exists is just as unsupportable as HotRod's or Schumikonen's assertion in the truth of the bible or the existence of God. Both are based on a belief in an abstract concept of moral ideal (i.e. an absolute truth), and neither has any basis in our physical reality.

While most of us agree that a belief in a supreme being is by definition an unprovable proposition (which is why it's called faith), many of us fail to view our own value systems with similar clarity. For example, your belief that evil exists in the world is merely a projection of your own personal values and life perspective. When if fact, what's actually happening in the world is random acts of nature, disease, and in the case of human sponsored tragedy, acts premised on competing intrests and objectives that are incongruent with your priorities.

I'll give you an example. Many see capital punishment as evil, whereas many people see it as entirely justifiable. What differentiates those groups of people is not that one is morally superior to the other, rather they simply do not share the same moral perspective on the issue. And a moral perspective is nothing more than a projection of our own internally generated value system (i.e. what matters to us).

Nevertheless, the reason that concepts like "good" and "evil", or "right" and "wrong" get so much play, (and particularly why we see them used so greatly in the context of political discussions) is that they convey tremendous emotive resonance, and as a result, are often effective in persuading others when simple logic and reason is not sufficient. Very often they are used in an attempt to persuade the listener that the argument being proposed is premised on a shared value system, such that scrutiny is directed away from the motives of the speaker.

Hey kayzee, please read my post. It's long but please read with neutral perspective, please...

I liking you.

HotRod, the problem with arguments such as yours is that they are premised on an a priori belief in the truth of the bible, whereas the rest of us reject that basic assumption as mere superstition with no basis in reality. As a result, if we reject the very premise of your argument, there is no point in reading any of it.

[cavallino 2]

Good gravy! does anyone read these long bible thumping posts? I hope not my finger got tired just scrolling past them...........

One thing people should learn is that by shoving this drivel upon us you don't prove any point at all, but then that's why religous people are the biggest cultists around, they drink the kool-ade(Jonestown) and blindly follow...........

On the other hand, unlike you, they are honest about their bigotry.

[HotRod 0]

HotRod, the problem with arguments such as yours is that they are premised on an a priori belief in the truth of the bible, whereas the rest of us reject that basic assumption as mere superstition with no basis in reality. As a result, if we reject the very premise of your argument, there is no point in reading any of it.

Het funkejay. What I posted might be the one of the most intelligent things that you'll ever read in this post. Your loss. We all have to hear what the world believes. Can't you atleast hear what Bible-believing Christian believe? But you don't have to, its entirely your choice. Life is all about choices and I chose to enlighten you about what I believe and not to 'show you up'. I've read all you have to say and it always eminates for one personal belief system and I respect that. Does'nt mean that I accept it but I respect you enough to listen. But you don't have to do the same. And I'm not calling you a coward ....

[HotRod 0]

Het funkejay. What I posted might be the one of the most intelligent things that you'll ever read in this post. Your loss. We all have to hear what the world believes. Can't you atleast hear what Bible-believing Christian believe? But you don't have to, its entirely your choice. Life is all about choices and I chose to enlighten you about what I believe and not to 'show you up'. I've read all you have to say and it always eminates for one personal belief system and I respect that. Does'nt mean that I accept it but I respect you enough to listen. But you don't have to do the same. And I'm not calling you a coward ....

[pumpdoc 2]

On the other hand, unlike you, they are honest about their bigotry.

[monza gorilla 1]

HotRod, you've every right to post your views here, but could you please make them a bit shorter. It's all a bit wordy for me. I'd prefer some Richard Dawkins quotes. Perhaps.

[monza gorilla 1]

Jay, does this sound familiar to you?

"This is one of the hardest lessons for humans to learn. We cannot admit that things might be neither good nor evil, neither cruel nor kind, but simply callous - indifferent to all suffering, lacking all purpose"

[monza gorilla 1]

when two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong

[cavallino 2]

HotRod, you've every right to post your views here, but could you please make them a bit shorter. It's all a bit wordy for me. I'd prefer some Richard Dawkins quotes. Perhaps.

Why, anytime

'Religious people split into three main groups when faced with science. I shall label them the "know-nothings", the "know-alls", and the "no-contests".'

"Out of all of the sects in the world, we notice an uncanny coincidence: the overwhelming majority just happen to choose the one that their parents belong to. Not the sect that has the best evidence in its favour, the best miracles, the best moral code, the best cathedral, the best stained glass, the best music: when it comes to choosing from the smorgasbord of available religions, their potential virtues seem to count for nothing, compared to the matter of heredity. This is an unmistakable fact; nobody could seriously deny it. Yet people with full knowledge of the arbitrary nature of this heredity, somehow manage to go on believing in their religion, often with such fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one."

"It is often said, mainly by the "no-contests", that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thoughts it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"

[monza gorilla 1]

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.

[Max Mosley 2]

Superb Cav! Have you read his latest book the God delusion? I have it on my shelves but have only flicked through so far.

[Max Mosley 2]

Good gravy! does anyone read these long bible thumping posts? I hope not my finger got tired just scrolling past them...........

No one has yet owned up Bruce!

[monza gorilla 1]

I haven't read it yet, but recommend The Blind Watchmaker and Climbing Mount Improbable.

[Max Mosley 2]

Cheers Russ. Haven't read them either (yet - I ought to). I'm reading a good philosophy book atm called "arguing for atheism" by le Poivedin. It's hard-going as it claims to be a uni-level text that is accessible to the general reader, like me. Anyway as you might expect, it gives a really thorough and fair analysis of the arguments. It actually concludes that we could use religion as a "useful fiction", much like Shakespeare helps us to reflect on life. Except that religion is perhaps more powerful because it includes prayer and religious traditions as well as an, in this view, profound fictional story. I like this book because, although I'm a scientist like Dawkins, I think this question is really philosophical, and Dawkins doesn't always do it justice.

[cavallino 2]

Superb Cav! Have you read his latest book the God delusion?

Reading it right now

[Max Mosley 2]

It's fun to read. I love his rants. He does include a lot of info' tho', and makes some very good points.

[monza gorilla 1]

Dawkins has let fame go to his head, I fear. And his aggressive style is not for everybody.

[Max Mosley 2]

Yeah he's prof of "public understanding of science" at oxford, but I think he is not a very good choice for that role. Although he is a superb scientist.