Drivers Have Wet Weather Concerns...

[Rainmaster 7]

Drivers move to quell wet weather fears

By By Jonathan Noble and Steve CooperThursday, January 3rd 2008, 10:09 GMT

Leading Formula One drivers have opened talks with the FIA to discuss wet weather safety in 2008, Autosport has learned, amid renewed concerns about racing in the rain without the help of traction control.

Ahead of the launch of the new 2008 cars that have been designed to work without the help of electronic driver aids, a number of Grand Prix drivers have said they are worried about the safety issues of racing them in the rain.

The fears have led to the drivers opening dialogue with F1 race director Charlie Whiting about agreeing on a plan of action in the event of a wet race, so they are in agreement about when it is too dangerous for the event to proceed.

David Coulthard, a leading campaigner for improved safety in F1, told Autosport: "Fernando Alonso aquaplaned off the road in Fuji (last year) - even with TC. The electronics still couldn't support him - and that will happen a lot more without traction control because Formula One engines are very peaky.

"We don't want to see a monstrous shunt where somebody rides over another car, goes into the crowd or has an accident like (Alex) Zanardi [at the Lausitzring in 2001].

"I'm very relaxed about how Charlie operates. He may have made some difficult decisions

[DOF_power 0]

rainmaster, the moment you've drove a wet and foggy race at 310 km/h, is the moment you can call them pussies.

Till then you're just another ingorant who talks trash.

"That was always the theory of the grooved tyre because you reduced the grip and the severity of the accident. "

B*, the slower retarded cars, creation of Mosley, have been responsable for the deaths and injuries since 94 onwards. Speed doesn't kill, the loss of control does.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

rainmaster, the moment you've drove a wet and foggy race at 310 km/h, is the moment you can call them pussies.

Till then you're just another ingorant who talks trash.

DOF whilst I respect your technical knowledge you do need to get out of your ivory tower. Anyone who disagrees with your opinion in your terms is ignorant or talks trash - try for once agreeing to disagree! Not everyone you disagree with is an ignoramus.

1) Very few drivers if any would drive at 310kmh in conditions that are that wet; half or two thirds that is more likely - fast still, I admit, but as Rainmaster rightly points out they are being paid a lot of money and one of the challenges is a wet race... sorts the men out from the boys, Schui in Jerez for example. And it does make for more interesting racing.

2) I *have* driven at 200KMh in wet conditions on a track in a single seat racing car and it is scary, but you drive within your limits. Those that don't, skid off (and they did) - its all about car control and knowing it and your limits. (incidentally I did not skid off )

3) What I do think there is a need for is to have some better rule/condition/measure for when weather is too bad to drive in racing conditions. There have been two or three cases in recent years when imho they should have acted quicker and brought the pace car out or red flagged till conditions improve. A bit of wet - fair enough - typhoon/lots of cars aquaplaning, no.

[DOF_power 0]

>

^ On the contrary, the Fuji race was one of the best F1 races ever, with the end battles between Kova-Kimi and especially Massa-Kubica as nice to downright epic.

This is what I want to see more of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YR_fnVFJPA

and not that Monaco 96 garbage were nobody finished.

(and yes they were doing ~310 on the main straight.)

[dribbler 6]

rainmaster, the moment you've drove a wet and foggy race at 310 km/h, is the moment you can call them pussies.

Till then you're just another ingorant who talks trash.

I think the point is that drivers always have doen those speeds and always have driven in the rain. I accept the concern if power delivery is now different from before but not the concern of driving fast in the rain.

Tell me, oh enlightened one, what's it like to drive in a single seater at 310 km/h in the rain?

[The Rumble Strip 0]

[dribbler 6]

I'd be more concerned with driver safety and think to put precautions in place for such an eventuality, is a very wise move.

Hmm, true. I'm going to put my safety goggles on tonight whilst playing chess.

[Rainmaster 7]

rainmaster, the moment you've drove a wet and foggy race at 310 km/h, is the moment you can call them pussies.

Till then you're just another ingorant who talks trash.

"That was always the theory of the grooved tyre because you reduced the grip and the severity of the accident. "

B*, the slower retarded cars, creation of Mosley, have been responsable for the deaths and injuries since 94 onwards. Speed doesn't kill, the loss of control does.

The 'pussies' part is a joke, I wouldn't be calling them pussies in relation to me anyway, that would be ridiculous, if I was calling them pussies it would be relative to guys like Nuvolari etc (but that would be ridiculous also)

I may be an ignorant who just talks trash but it seems to me that the majority of really serious accidents (as in actual injuries) have happened in dry conditions over the years (yeah I know that fits because there are less wet races, but still its not like every wet race a driver got killed or anything).

I feel that the wet races are as safe as they are going to be, most tracks have plenty of run off and good drainage in the event of a downpour, not only that but we also have incredibly strong cars these days and the drivers will usually drive within their limits (speeds will be reduced in the wet anyway).

No I

[DOF_power 0]

The 'pussies' part is a joke, I wouldn't be calling them pussies in relation to me anyway, that would be ridiculous, if I was calling them pussies it would be relative to guys like Nuvolari etc (but that would be ridiculous also)

I may be an ignorant who just talks trash but it seems to me that the majority of really serious accidents (as in actual injuries) have happened in dry conditions over the years (yeah I know that fits because there are less wet races, but still its not like every wet race a driver got killed or anything).

I feel that the wet races are as safe as they are going to be, most tracks have plenty of run off and good drainage in the event of a downpour, not only that but we also have incredibly strong cars these days and the drivers will usually drive within their limits (speeds will be reduced in the wet anyway).

No I'm not some idiot who wants to increase the chance of an accident but I just don't think this is something F1 needs at the moment.

Maybe for 2009 when there are certain down-force restrictions it will be necessary to create some kind of criteria for wet races. I don't have any real problem with that, but I don't want F1 to go down a path where eventually, they don't race in wet conditions or become incredibly picky about it.

Wet racing is important because it gives drivers in less competitive machinary a chance to shine, or as the phrase goes: it sorts the men from the boys. Also increases the spectacle (the essence of racing) no end.

Yes DOF, what you just read was a different opinion than your own

Nuvolari only had only 2 peers, Bernd Rosemeyer and Gilles Villeneuve.

All the other GP drivers were death fearing men, who would simply ignore/chose not to be aware of the danger, and use mind compartimentation when someone was killed.

As to the spectacle, there were more overtakings per season in 93 when the cars had TC (and even in 92 when some of the cars also had TC). The non TC/suposebly non TC cars of pre 2001 as well as the TCs of 2001 onwards have only produced between 200 and 320 overtaking per season. Overtaking has in fact been on a plateau since ~1997-1998.

The overtaking figures of the late 80s/early 90s were never achieved again, as FIA reduced overtaking (on the NA cars) by reducing both the mechanical grip and the ground effects downforce the cars produced, and by introducing refueling.

The turbo cars, from 84 onwards, had fuel limits witch meant the drivers would turn the boost up (push to pass) and down (fuel economy mode) resulting in even more overtaking/crazy scenarios (~ 2x the overtaking of today).

Now Champ Car uses both slicks, ground effects (they have 1000 kgs more downforce than F1) and push to pass and that's how they have more overtaking, like F1 in the good old days.

[Silver_Arrows 0]

Most traction problems nowadays are caused by the fact that the cars are setup for immensly aggressive acceleration. If this is indeed likely to make wet weather racing more dangerous, they could probably solve the problem with a different engine mapping designed for use in wet weather. If that is not an option, they merely need to change the way the cars are setup

[Oli 1]

The fact that Charlie is mentioned leads me to think this is more about ensuring that he reacts fast enough to flash floods like at the Nurburgring. Arguably that race wasn't red flagged quickly enough, even when it was clear to all the drivers that it was totally impossible to drive it. Even the safety car nearly got hit, and that was after 5 cars had already gone off at the same corner. It's true that they were going far slower than usual, but there were marshals on track and Liuzzi was going pretty fast when he was flying towards them.

It seems to me all DC is saying is that there should be a dialogue now about how to make sure situations like that are brought under control more promptly.

[Rainmaster 7]

The fact that Charlie is mentioned leads me to think this is more about ensuring that he reacts fast enough to flash floods like at the Nurburgring. Arguably that race wasn't red flagged quickly enough, even when it was clear to all the drivers that it was totally impossible to drive it. Even the safety car nearly got hit, and that was after 5 cars had already gone off at the same corner. It's true that they were going far slower than usual, but there were marshals on track and Liuzzi was going pretty fast when he was flying towards them.

It seems to me all DC is saying is that there should be a dialogue now about how to make sure situations like that are brought under control more promptly.

I hope that's all it amounts to.

[The Rumble Strip 0]