Space Thread

[Jez 0]

Space elevator? That reeks of Arthur.

Yep, in a good though right?

I was referring to the allusion that there could be less than one intelligent civilization in the galaxy. I would have hoped that it was an oversight not to say less than one OTHER intelligent civilization.

[Jez 0]

Stare into the curve of Herschel's mirror too long and you get a slightly giddy feeling that comes from not being able to judge where its surface really starts.

It is enchanting, spectacular and - at 3.5m in diameter - it will soon become the biggest telescope mirror in space, surpassing that of Hubble.

The great 18th Century astronomer William Herschel would have been astonished by the silver sensation that now bears his name. The design keeps Herschel's critical detectors in an ultra-cold state

More details

The European Space Agency (Esa) is certainly very proud of its new observatory. It has been working on the venture for more than 20 years.

"The mirror is an enormous piece of hardware," enthused Thomas Passvogel, Esa's programme manager on the Herschel space observatory.

"It's a ceramic mirror; it's the biggest piece ever made from silicon carbide. It's very hard but much, much lighter than glass and the performance is excellent."

This week, the finished observatory will be flown to Europe's Kourou spaceport in South America. There, it will be bolted to an Ariane rocket and hurled into orbit.

It will take up a vantage point a million-and-a-half kilometres from Earth, to open up what scientists expect to be an utterly fascinating new vista on the Universe.

"Very simply, the science pillars of Herschel are to understand better how stars and galaxies form and how they evolve," G

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

I was referring to the allusion that there could be less than one intelligent civilization in the galaxy. I would have hoped that it was an oversight not to say less than one OTHER intelligent civilization.

What was it Eric Idle sang in the Meaning of Life? "let's hope there's some intelligent life out there, because there's b*gger all down here on Earth...."

[Jez 0]

Russian and US satellites collide

Iridium spacecraft provide satellite phone services

US and Russian communications satellites have collided in space in what is thought to be the biggest incident of its kind to date.

The US commercial Iridium spacecraft hit a defunct Russian satellite at an altitude of about 800km (500 miles) over Siberia on Tuesday, Nasa said.

The risk to the International Space Station and a shuttle launch planned for later this month is said to be low.

The impact produced a cloud of debris, which will be tracked into the future.

Since the Soviets launched Sputnik in 1957, it is estimated about 6,000 satellites have been put in orbit.

Satellite operators are all too aware that the chances of a collision are increasing. The space station does have the capability of doing a debris-avoidance manoeuvre if necessary

John Yembrick

Nasa spokesman

The Americans are now following the debris path from the impact. It is hoped that most of it will fall to Earth and burn up in the atmosphere.

Shuttle launch

The concern is whether the debris will spread and pose any risk to the ISS, which is orbiting the Earth some 435km below the course of the collision.

According to the Washington Post, a Nasa memo said officials determined the risk to be "elevated" but have estimated it as "very small and within acceptable limits". SPACE DEBRIS Around 17,000 objects tracked in spaceMonitored by the US Space Surveillance NetworkNasa says four other cases of minor collisions in orbitISS has had to manoeuvre away from debris eight times

Collision highlights growing threat

Nasa spokesman John Yembrick said the ISS had the "capability of doing a debris-avoidance manoeuvre if necessary".

He said this had happened on just eight previous occasions during the course of its 60,000-plus orbits.

Officials said there were no plans to delay the launch of Nasa's space shuttle Discovery later this month, although that would be re-evaluated in coming days.

Nicholas Johnson, an orbital debris expert at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, was quoted by the Associated Press as saying that the Hubble Space Telescope and Earth-observing satellites at higher orbits and closer to the collision site were at greater risk of damage.

'Extremely unusual'

Communications firm Iridium, based in Bethesda, Maryland, said it "lost an operational satellite" after it was struck on Tuesday by the Russian satellite.

It said its clients may experience some brief outages until it had temporarily fixed the problem by Friday.

Iridium said it hoped to replace the 560kg satellite, launched in 1997, with one of its in-orbit spares within the next 30 days.

The firm described it as an "extremely unusual, very low-probability event", stressing that it was not caused by any fault on its part.

Russia's space forces confirmed the collision with the defunct 950kg (2,094lb) satellite.

"A collision occurred between an Iridium 33 satellite and a Russian Kosmos 2251 military satellite," Major General Alexander Yakushin said.

The satellite was launched in 1993 and ceased to function two years later, he said according to the AFP news agency.

Russia has not commented on claims the satellite was out of control.

Littered orbit

Space debris experts say the chances of such collisions have been rising.

A reconstruction showing how the satellites may have collided

Litter in orbit - caused in part by the break-ups of old satellites - has increased to such an extent that it is now the biggest threat to a space shuttle in flight.

Mr Johnson said that at the beginning of this year about 17,000 manmade pieces of debris were orbiting Earth.

The items, some as small as 10cm (four inches), are tracked by the US Space Surveillance Network - sending information to help spacecraft operators avoid the debris. Of the 6,000 satellites sent into orbit since 1957, about 3,000 remain in operation, according to Nasa. Europe has just initiated its own space surveillance programme. One of its main weather satellites had a near miss in December with a Chinese object. The Europeans knew nothing about the threat until the Americans contacted the European Space Agency to inform it of the danger.

[mikathegreat2 2]

Have the bombs fallen yet??

[Jez 0]

Nasa delays space shuttle launch

Nasa has nine shuttle flights left before it completes the space station

Nasa has delayed the first space shuttle launch of 2009 for the fourth time because of safety concerns.

US space agency managers and engineers met for 13 hours on Friday to discuss a potentially dangerous problem with fuel valves in its engine compartment.

The Discovery shuttle's crew is due to fit the International Space Station with its fourth and final set of solar arrays.

No new launch date has been set for the orbiter's two-week mission.

During the last shuttle mission in November, a tiny part of one valve cracked.

There was no danger to the crew or the shuttle, officials said.

But Bill Gerstenmaier, Nasa's associate administrator for space operations, said: "We need to understand a little bit more the consequences if a piece comes off."

He added: "When we're in this mode, we need to be careful about jumping to conclusions and picking solutions."

Nasa has nine shuttle flights left before it completes construction of the station. The fleet is scheduled to be retired in 2010.

[Jez 0]

I can't wait for the age of reusable rockets to commence!-

Skylon spaceplane gets cash boost

By Jonathan Amos

Science reporter, BBC News

Skylon would be totally reusable

An innovative UK launcher concept is to get 1m euros (

[Max Mosley 2]

Nice! There's some real innovation right there.

[Jez 0]

Indeed. Maybe forumla one's KERS technology will further aid development of the Skylon Spaceplane.

[Jez 0]

US 'CO2 hunter' set for lift-off

By Jonathan Amos

Science reporter, BBC News

OCO will launch from California

Nasa is all set to launch its first mission dedicated to measuring carbon dioxide (CO2) from space.

The Orbiting Carbon Observatory (OCO) will help pinpoint the key locations on our planet's surface where the gas is being emitted and absorbed.

CO2's increased concentration in the atmosphere will lead to global climate change, say the major institutions and agencies that study Earth sciences.

The OCO data is intended to help forecast that change more accurately.

Currently, carbon dioxide is regularly sampled at about a hundred sites around the world. The new satellite will be taking roughly 30,000 readings on each orbit.

"We need to make a measurement that is about three times more precise than has ever been made for a trace gas in the Earth's atmosphere," said Dr David Crisp, OCO's principal investigator.

"We regularly measure ozone in the Earth's atmosphere to about 1%. We need to make a measurement of CO2 to about three-tenths of 1% to start answering the questions that face scientists."

Colour clues

The $270m mission will be put in orbit by the smallest ground-launched rocket currently in use by the US space agency. NASA'S OCO MISSION OCO weighs approximately 440kgWill fly at a 705km altitudePasses the equator every pm30,000 measurements per orbitGlobal coverage in 16 days

The Taurus XL vehicle is scheduled to leave the Vandenberg Air Force Base in California at 0951 GMT, Tuesday.

It will loft OCO into a near-polar orbit at an altitude of 705km (438 miles). The spacecraft will then circle the planet once every 98.8 minutes, passing over the entire globe in the course of 16 days.

Nasa stresses the mission is an experimental one; it first has to establish that the measurement approach it has adopted is a robust one.

OCO carries a spectrometer that analyses the sunlight reflected off the Earth's surface. By splitting that light into its component colours, it will be able to see the part of the spectrum absorbed by carbon dioxide molecules.

By measuring oxygen's presence in the atmosphere also, OCO should be able to arrive at a concentration figure for CO2. The instrument is sensitive to carbon dioxide in the lower reaches of the atmosphere.

"We'll be pumping down about 50 gigabits of data every day," said Dr Crisp.

"We're a very small spacecraft - we'd be a very cosy telephone booth - but we'll pump down data at such a high rate I often joke we'll melt the snow around the base of the down-link station."

CO2 in the atmosphere has seen a steady rise in recent years

This mass of information should help the OCO science team pinpoint the so-called sources (where CO2 comes from) and sinks (where CO2 is pulled out of the atmosphere by land and ocean processes, and stored) of carbon dioxide.

Scientists have calculated that Nature cycles about 330 billion tonnes of carbon every year. Human activities put about eight billion tonnes into the atmosphere - a tiny sum in comparison but enough, say researchers, to imbalance the system and raise the global mean surface temperature of Earth.

Of that eight billion, studies suggest about half remains in the atmosphere, says Dr Paul Palmer, a collaborator on the mission from the University of Edinburgh, UK.

"The remaining 50% gets taken up by the ocean biosphere and the land biosphere, or so we think. But if you take into account what we know about the oceans and the land, there is still a high percentage - something like 20% - which is poorly understood.

"We don't know where it goes, but we do know that this unaccounted sink changes in magnitude from year to year."

It could be going into land areas where trees, grasslands, crops and soil are absorbing carbon dioxide at a faster rate than previously been acknowledged.

These sinks are likely to include abandoned farmland where forests are re-growing.

They could also take in the northern, high-latitude forests that are experiencing longer, warmer growing seasons, allowing trees and shrubs to "bulk up" and absorb more carbon dioxide.

OCO measures carbon dioxide on the day-side of the Earth

"Even 'Smokey Bear' is a sink," said Professor Scott Denning, an OCO science team associate at Colorado State University, referring to the US Forest Service's anti-fire mascot.

"By putting fires out in our western forests and allowing the wood to accumulate, we are actually sequestering CO2."

To identify those currently poorly understood - or "missing" - sinks, OCO's data will have to be combined with models of how the air is transported through the atmosphere.

The famous US forest mascot may have a part in the storyUltimately, researchers will use the OCO maps to assess how well the sinks are likely to perform over time.

"[Different climate] models show very different CO2 levels in the atmosphere for the same human emissions. So even though people are producing the same emissions in each of these models, the resulting CO2 in the atmosphere is very different by the end of the century due to the differences in land and ocean behaviour," explained Professor Denning.

"This actually shows up at about 300 parts per million (ppm) of difference in the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere - remember, we're at about 385ppm today. So this is a big difference and is really quite important for understanding future climate."

The OCO team is working closely with the Japanese Gosat ("Ibuki") mission which launched its carbon observatory last month.

The orbits of the two spacecraft will cross six times each day.

The groups use different measurement approaches, which will provide a cross-check on each other's data. Both will take their calibration from ground stations which, although limited in number, can measure CO2 with much higher precision at their locality. [email protected]

[Jez 0]

Failure hits Nasa's 'CO2 hunter'

Nasa announces technical failure shortly after blast-off

Nasa's first dedicated mission to measure carbon dioxide from space has failed following a rocket malfunction.

Officials said the fairing - the part of the rocket which covers the satellite on top of the launcher - did not separate properly.

Data indicates the spacecraft crashed into the ocean near Antarctica.

The Orbiting Carbon Observatory (OCO) was intended to help pinpoint the key locations on our planet's surface where CO2 is being emitted and absorbed.

Nasa officials confirmed the loss of the satellite at a press conference held at 1300 GMT. I am bitterly disappointed about the loss of OCO

Dr Paul Palmer, University of Edinburgh

John Brunschwyler, from Orbital Sciences Corporation, the rocket's manufacturer, told journalists: "Our whole team, at a very personal level, is very disappointed in the events of this morning."

He added: "The fairing has considerable weight relative to the portion of the vehicle that's flying. So when it separates off, you get a jump in acceleration. We did not have that jump in acceleration.

"As a direct result of carrying that extra weight, we could not make orbit."

'Mishap' board

The $270m (

[Oli 1]

This is getting dangerously close to...............I daren't even say it!

[Max Mosley 2]

Best not to, I think, for the sake of Jez's thread.

[Medilloni 6]

This is getting dangerously close to...............I daren't even say it!

Best not to, I think, for the sake of Jez's thread.

Wha..? Close to what? You mean God stopped the doors opening? It was 'too warm' (nudge nudge, wink wink), causing the doors to jam? The thought that 'we can watch your dirtiest carbon moments from here' was too much to take?

C'mon, spit it out

Back on thread, after you two tried to ruin it, I thought this, about the Skylon project, was cool amazing....

Arrays of extremely fine piping plunge the hot intake gases to minus 130C in just 1/100th of a second.

Showing my ignorance, in order to avoid work-hardening, what are those pipes made from?

[Schumikonen 2]

Did anyone here got to see this comet? http://www.visualastronomy.com/2009/01/comet-lulin.html

I saw it but because of the city lights it was just like seeing another star I wanted to buy a Telescope but my wife didn't agree we need one, she still think we don't need one.

[Max Mosley 2]

C'mon, spit it out

No semen jokes please, we're in the Space thread.

Did anyone here got to see this comet? http://www.visualastronomy.com/2009/01/comet-lulin.html

I saw it but because of the city lights it was just like seeing another star I wanted to buy a Telescope but my wife didn't agree we need one, she still think we don't need one.

Poor Tommy. Maybe she thought you wanted to covet your neighbour's wife? I hope you didn't mention the telescope would give you a clearer view of Orion and the Seven Sisters.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

in order to avoid work-hardening, what are those pipes made from?

Ah in order to avoid work hardening, just stop staring at your PA's legs....

[Jez 0]

This is getting dangerously close to...............I daren't even say it!

Did I miss something? Many things are going over my flu ridden head today

Did anyone here got to see this comet? http://www.visualastronomy.com/2009/01/comet-lulin.html

I saw it but because of the city lights it was just like seeing another star I wanted to buy a Telescope but my wife didn't agree we need one, she still think we don't need one.

Wow, wish I saw it!!

[Insider 0]

I've just read through this topic and I am extremely impressed by your deep knowledge of and obvious dedication to this subject, Jez. I too, find space exploration fascinating but know little about how it has progressed in the decades since the yanks landed on the moon - if indeed they did. I did check out the last Mars effort, to a small degree. I know a lot more now. Power to you.

[Schumikonen 2]

Poor Tommy. Maybe she thought you wanted to covet your neighbour's wife? I hope you didn't mention the telescope would give you a clearer view of Orion and the Seven Sisters.

I didn't mention that but she might have been thinking about it as we have lots of apartments around us

[Schumikonen 2]

Did I miss something? Many things are going over my flu ridden head today

Wow, wish I saw it!!

If you happen to have a telescope you still can see it even with a good binocular you could be able to see something but the telescope is the best option they even say tha this comet is so fast that you could actually see it moving unlike most comets who appear to be static.

[Medilloni 6]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7744207.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7744585.stm

If they're meteors I'm ET

[Jez 0]

I've just read through this topic and I am extremely impressed by your deep knowledge of and obvious dedication to this subject, Jez. I too, find space exploration fascinating but know little about how it has progressed in the decades since the yanks landed on the moon - if indeed they did. I did check out the last Mars effort, to a small degree. I know a lot more now. Power to you.

Well thanks Sean. I wish my space exploration knowledge was deep, but sadly it isn't. I just enjoy reading as much as I can these days about the topic, and following the progress of NASA and ESA's efforts, especially in regards to the ISS and the colonisation of Mars. For some the idea of human beings existing beyond earth is just science fiction. I tend to think that it's inevitable, an inherant function of our species is to explore and spread our existance. One could look at it as a kind of survival mechanism.

If you happen to have a telescope you still can see it even with a good binocular you could be able to see something but the telescope is the best option they even say tha this comet is so fast that you could actually see it moving unlike most comets who appear to be static.

I need to get me a telescope. A shame it would be to late..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7744207.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7744585.stm

If they're meteors I'm ET

You think they might be clips of UFO activity?

[Jez 0]

Chinese probe crashes into moon

The probe was launched in 2007 and mapped the moon's surface

A Chinese lunar probe has crashed into the moon in what Beijing has called a controlled collision.

The Chang'e 1 lunar satellite hit the moon's surface at 1613 local time (0813 GMT) at the end of a 16-month moon-mapping mission.

China launched the spacecraft in late October 2007 on a mission to survey the entire surface of the moon.

China's ever-more ambitious space programme includes plans for a space station and landing a man on the moon.

Future missions

Launched into space on one of China's Long March 3A rockets, the probe mapped the moon's surface using stereo radar.

Chang'e 1 was under the remote control of two stations in Qingda, eastern China, and Kashgar in the north-west of the country, the Xinhua news agency said.

China became only the third nation - after the Soviet Union and the US - to put a manned spacecraft in orbit in 2003.

State media said on Sunday China would launch a space module next year and carry out the country's first space docking.

"The module, called Tiangong-1, will provide a "safe room" for Chinese astronauts to live and conduct scientific research in zero gravity," Chinese state media said. "Weighing about 8.5 tonnes, Tiangong-1 is able to perform a long-term unattended operation, which will be an essential step toward building a space station," it added.

[Medilloni 6]

.............You think they might be clips of UFO activity?

Well Jez, knowing some of the members here as I do, I think any person that admits to believing in, or witnessing UFO's, would get ripped to shreds. I do, and I have.

And are the clips something other than space rocks? Dunno. I've seen plenty of clips like that on the Beeb website, and I find it odd that there's no debris found afterwards - but maybe they didn't look hard enough. Also, seems to be fairly bad quality film, so it could be that most of the brightness is glare rather than the light reflected from ET's house whatever it is.