72 replies to this topic

[LabradoRacer]

Insider, on 14 October 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Ferrari could have won this race if they had let Felipe run free. It just goes to show how blisteringly fast the Brazilian can be when his brain is in gear. A move would do him good but it won't happen.

That's a very different & interesting take on the WDC assault by Ferrari. If they had pulled it off, Vettel would be leading by just 2 points. In a season as tight as this, it could prove crucial. Even if the move didn't come off, Massa could have been told to ease off on the last lap to allow Alonso to regain his position.

About Massa being fast on his day, yeah, I agree. He repeatedly came within touching distance of Alonso, only to back off. Seems he was trying to prove a point. Who knows, maybe he could prove a tougher nut next year.

[Caesar]

LabradoRacer, on 14 October 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

That's a very different & interesting take on the WDC assault by Ferrari. If they had pulled it off, Vettel would be leading by just 2 points. In a season as tight as this, it could prove crucial. Even if the move didn't come off, Massa could have been told to ease off on the last lap to allow Alonso to regain his position.

About Massa being fast on his day, yeah, I agree. He repeatedly came within touching distance of Alonso, only to back off. Seems he was trying to prove a point. Who knows, maybe he could prove a tougher nut next year.

ferrari today couldn't touch RBR. even when alonso last 9 laps pushed 1 sec faster than his laps before that , both red bulls responded with even faster laps. that screaming about bad tyres was just acting.

Edited by Caesar, 14 October 2012 - 12:29 PM.

[AleHop]

- Championship's over, repeat WDC OVER

- Copy that

[Insider]

LabradoRacer, on 14 October 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

That's a very different & interesting take on the WDC assault by Ferrari. If they had pulled it off, Vettel would be leading by just 2 points. In a season as tight as this, it could prove crucial. Even if the move didn't come off, Massa could have been told to ease off on the last lap to allow Alonso to regain his position.

About Massa being fast on his day, yeah, I agree. He repeatedly came within touching distance of Alonso, only to back off. Seems he was trying to prove a point. Who knows, maybe he could prove a tougher nut next year.

I hope Alonso does the treble. Vettel can wait. He should go somewhere else and win one - then we'll know just how good he is. If Nando gets the crown them maybe Maranello will let them race. This No.1 Sh#t is proving to be counter-productive as far as the WCC is concerned. I am sure Felipe could win a WDC - it just needs Ferrari to turn the tap. Today was stupid. They could have kept Seb under control - for sure.

[Quiet One]

RBRs are again on a league of their own. Only threat for Vettel was himself pushing needlessly and wasting tires like there was no tomorrow. The fact that he could do that and manage the gap all the race is telling.

Massa having a chance to win the GP? I'd say none. I don't even think Webber was really pushing. At best he could have challenged Webber in case old Mark was not merely keeping Alonso at bay. It was a perfect performance from Massa, btw, but it was obvious that he would not be allowed to get in front of Alonso, wouldn't have made any sense so why did he kept pushing except to force the team orders I don't know.

Again, at (very) best he would have been able to take P2. Even if he could have taken P1 it would have been a long shot. And to alow that you would have needed perfect confidence in Massa's abilities. Not a credit he has exactly eraned himself in the past 3 years. Only after the race you can say he had a perfect day. Would you have bet valuable championship points on that before the race?

RBRs lead is as comfortable as a DRS overtaking move. I don't think Ferrari can close the gap enough to give Alonso a chance. He will need his famous luck (things haven't gone exactly his way these past couple of GPs) and some suicidal attitudes from RBR (like Vettels need to push beyond the limits of convenience)

If you'd been wondering who would hinder whom the most in Hamilton's post announcement era, he made it clear that he is putting more effort than the team at present. Watching him fight with a complete dog of a car was moving. And I can't even understand how McLaren managed to turn what was arguably the best car or at least as good as the RBR into a car that seems even worse than Ferrari at the start of the season.

Kamui was no fun at all. He needs ze punishment as much as Romain did. BTW the smiling Frenchman showed again that if he manages not to do something dumb at the start his races are usually pretty good, when not downright impressive.

Kimi was slightly disappointing for me. Hammy was formidable, no doubt, but I expected more fight from Kimi. He was thoroughly trashed by Lewis.

I can't say that Vergne and Ricciardo were impressive, because, like other midfield cars, they switch between sublime and crappy too much. It seems more down to car's influence than sudden blasts of genius from the STR drivers as it happens with the Force Indias or the Williams...one day both are great, the next one both are rookies...

And the track, as much as I like the circuit's layout, needs a lot (A LOT!) of polishing. What was the deal with all the debris? What about 10+ laps without DRS because they could not move aside Nico's car from a rather easy to reach place?

If you wanted to know what would happen if, for once, Perez strategy of starting with primes and doing one stop would go wrong, this race showed it to you.

All in all, a rather boring race for me, maybe because it was not Alonso's finest hour Thanks George we had Hamilton/Kimi.

[Massa]

Caesar, on 14 October 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

ferrari today couldn't touch RBR. even when alonso last 9 laps pushed 1 sec faster than his laps before that , both red bulls responded with even faster laps. that screaming about bad tyres was just acting.

Yep.  Red Bulls had even more than they were showing.

AleHop, on 14 October 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

- Championship's over, repeat WDC OVER

- Copy that

The WDC was over after Singapore, too, though, in my mind, that time in favor of Alonso.  It just takes one retirement from Vettel.  Realistically, I agree, the WDC and WCC have been locked up.

Quiet One, on 14 October 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

RBRs are again on a league of their own. Only threat for Vettel was himself pushing needlessly and wasting tires like there was no tomorrow. The fact that he could do that and manage the gap all the race is telling.

Massa having a chance to win the GP? I'd say none. I don't even think Webber was really pushing. At best he could have challenged Webber in case old Mark was not merely keeping Alonso at bay. It was a perfect performance from Massa, btw, but it was obvious that he would not be allowed to get in front of Alonso, wouldn't have made any sense so why did he kept pushing except to force the team orders I don't know.

Again, at (very) best he would have been able to take P2. Even if he could have taken P1 it would have been a long shot. And to alow that you would have needed perfect confidence in Massa's abilities. Not a credit he has exactly eraned himself in the past 3 years. Only after the race you can say he had a perfect day. Would you have bet valuable championship points on that before the race?

I can't say that Vergne and Ricciardo were impressive, because, like other midfield cars, they switch between sublime and crappy too much. It seems more down to car's influence than sudden blasts of genius from the STR drivers as it happens with the Force Indias or the Williams...one day both are great, the next one both are rookies...

All in all, a rather boring race for me, maybe because it was not Alonso's finest hour Thanks George we had Hamilton/Kimi.

Vettel...I'm sure they don't care as long as he wins, but man, it has to be maddening to know whatever you say, he won't listen.  At least for me it would be.  Bob Varsha theorized on the SPEED broadcast that Red Bull were inventing a fake tire problem to try to just get him to back off after it didn't work last week...his colleagues made him stop, though.

Yeah, there's no way Massa would have gotten first or even second.  So team orders cost him 3 points at Suzuka and 3 points at Monza...well, Massa's cost himself a hell of a lot more than 6 points this season.  I think he and his fans should all be thrilled that he's even close enough to Alonso that they have to put him in his place again.  He's improved tremendously as of late.  Being told you're too close to Alonso is an honor.

STR did have a good day.  I think Vergne's a good driver.  He's someone I liked in WSR, and found him more impressive than the champion (his teammate, Wickens, a guy I'm a big fan of but can see he's not F1 quality).  That's often the case, though...Esteban Guerrieri was more impressive than Aleshin and Ricciardo the year before...

I actually like this track a lot.  I don't know why.  I think it's cool; first time I ever saw it.  But the race was pretty flat for the most part.  The season's start was so good that the ending feels poorer than it really is.

[BradSpeedMan]

Quiet One, on 14 October 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

RBRs are again on a league of their own. Only threat for Vettel was himself pushing needlessly and wasting tires like there was no tomorrow. The fact that he could do that and manage the gap all the race is telling.

Massa having a chance to win the GP? I'd say none. I don't even think Webber was really pushing. At best he could have challenged Webber in case old Mark was not merely keeping Alonso at bay. It was a perfect performance from Massa, btw, but it was obvious that he would not be allowed to get in front of Alonso, wouldn't have made any sense so why did he kept pushing except to force the team orders I don't know.

Again, at (very) best he would have been able to take P2. Even if he could have taken P1 it would have been a long shot. And to alow that you would have needed perfect confidence in Massa's abilities. Not a credit he has exactly eraned himself in the past 3 years. Only after the race you can say he had a perfect day. Would you have bet valuable championship points on that before the race?

RBRs lead is as comfortable as a DRS overtaking move. I don't think Ferrari can close the gap enough to give Alonso a chance. He will need his famous luck (things haven't gone exactly his way these past couple of GPs) and some suicidal attitudes from RBR (like Vettels need to push beyond the limits of convenience)

If you'd been wondering who would hinder whom the most in Hamilton's post announcement era, he made it clear that he is putting more effort than the team at present. Watching him fight with a complete dog of a car was moving. And I can't even understand how McLaren managed to turn what was arguably the best car or at least as good as the RBR into a car that seems even worse than Ferrari at the start of the season.

Kamui was no fun at all. He needs ze punishment as much as Romain did. BTW the smiling Frenchman showed again that if he manages not to do something dumb at the start his races are usually pretty good, when not downright impressive.

Kimi was slightly disappointing for me. Hammy was formidable, no doubt, but I expected more fight from Kimi. He was thoroughly trashed by Lewis.

I can't say that Vergne and Ricciardo were impressive, because, like other midfield cars, they switch between sublime and crappy too much. It seems more down to car's influence than sudden blasts of genius from the STR drivers as it happens with the Force Indias or the Williams...one day both are great, the next one both are rookies...

And the track, as much as I like the circuit's layout, needs a lot (A LOT!) of polishing. What was the deal with all the debris? What about 10+ laps without DRS because they could not move aside Nico's car from a rather easy to reach place?

If you wanted to know what would happen if, for once, Perez strategy of starting with primes and doing one stop would go wrong, this race showed it to you.

nice analysis!

lovely stuff

[AleHop]

Massa, on 14 October 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

The WDC was over after Singapore, too, though, in my mind, that time in favor of Alonso.  It just takes one retirement from Vettel.  Realistically, I agree, the WDC and WCC have been locked up.

Alonso needed a few circumstances to keep their hopes up after Singapore.

Ferrari had to Improve the car, specially in Q3. Wins had to be sharing among a few different drivers. He had to win 1 or 2 races and/or had to keep the lead for the rest of the season by "administering" the gap.

I still can't see how Alonso could have done it after Singapore. He could have stayed a couple of races more in the lead but 5 races (225 points) is 25% of the championship.

The race's been a cakewalk for Red Bull. They got 1-2 on Saturday and 1-2 on Sunday. It doesn't matter Vettel is leading by 6 points or trailing by 20.

[Massa]

Yeah, you're correct.  I guess the WDC was over after Singapore in my mind because my mind thought Red Bull's Singapore form was a one-shot thing and McLaren still had the best car.  Or that McLaren would at least steal points/wins from Red Bull.  Neither appears to be the case, and then Alonso had the retirement and none of that mattered there.  Maybe it just sped up the inevitable, since Vettel has actually gone and won every single race, a scenario I just assumed impossible.  It's a huge credit to him and his team.

A Vettel retirement is now necessary for a close WDC battle, but also not a guarantee of one.  It does look fairly locked up on that front and if it is, well, great for Vettel and Red Bull to deliver so much when it really counted, and great, too, for Alonso, to have even been in the title fight he was already written out of in Melbourne.

Still, I just hope for some good races, regardless of championship implications.  We've had some good moments this season.

[freaky2]

Massa, on 14 October 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

Yep.  Red Bulls had even more than they were showing.



The WDC was over after Singapore, too, though, in my mind, that time in favor of Alonso.  It just takes one retirement from Vettel.  Realistically, I agree, the WDC and WCC have been locked up.



Vettel...I'm sure they don't care as long as he wins, but man, it has to be maddening to know whatever you say, he won't listen.  At least for me it would be.  Bob Varsha theorized on the SPEED broadcast that Red Bull were inventing a fake tire problem to try to just get him to back off after it didn't work last week...his colleagues made him stop, though.

Yeah, there's no way Massa would have gotten first or even second.  So team orders cost him 3 points at Suzuka and 3 points at Monza...well, Massa's cost himself a hell of a lot more than 6 points this season.  I think he and his fans should all be thrilled that he's even close enough to Alonso that they have to put him in his place again.  He's improved tremendously as of late.  Being told you're too close to Alonso is an honor.

First paragraph: I thought so too! It is impossible that his tyres would be in such a bad state to cause them to plead with crying voices over the radio on the very last lap

I agree about Massa!

[AleHop]

Massa, on 14 October 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

A Vettel retirement is now necessary for a close WDC battle, but also not a guarantee of one.  It does look fairly locked up on that front and if it is, well, great for Vettel and Red Bull to deliver so much when it really counted, and great, too, for Alonso, to have even been in the title fight he was already written out of in Melbourne.

Yep. Rather than a Vettel retirement Alonso needs 2 race wins in normal circumstances, pole2win if possible, if he wants to have a chance but it's unlikely to happen.

[Quiet One]

Gratefully, Alonso has always something up his sleeve:

[AleHop]

Quiet One, on 14 October 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

Gratefully, Alonso has always something up his sleeve:

He's very good with the cards too!

That trick would be really handful during the race. He needs at least an ace and a joker for the remaining of the season.