62 replies to this topic

[Senna]

Adelaide 1994.

Sunday the 13th of November 1994: the controversial finale to a memorably bad year of Formula One.





My second attempt at journalism:



The starting grid was decided by the Friday times as it rained on the Saturday.  “Il Leone” thus takes his 32nd and last career pole ahead of Michael Schumacher and Damon Hill.  Mansell fluffs his start and both title contenders immediately pass the Englishman.  Mansell further blots his copybook by running wide and this enables Mika Hakkinen and Rubens Barrichello to pass him.  However, the onus is on the championship battle and the director senses this.  

The action is tense: for lap after lap Michael and Damon trade almost identical lap times, the gap is fairly consistent and Michael appears unable to pull away from Damon and Damon in turn seems unable to get much closer to Michael.  On lap 35 Schumacher cracks under intense pressure, runs wide and hits a concrete wall, fatally wounding his Benetton B194.  The next moment, Damon comes round the corner and sees Michael’s slowing car, he pounces and tries to overtake the German, unaware of his contact with the wall.  Michael's survival instincts come to the fore and, for the sake of his championship, he turns into Damon and damage to the front wheel and wishbone on the Williams Renault results in Damon’s retirement.  Michael is eliminated instantly.  

Michael wins the 1994 World Championship by a single point from a distraught Damon Hill.

Mansell wins his 31st Grand Prix.



Post-race comments:

After the race Michael Schumacher paid tribute to Damon Hill

"It was a very great battle between me and Damon. I made some comments this year about how I did not have respect for him but I have to say now that I was wrong. He was a great rival and he did a fantastic job. As far as winning the world championship goes, it is like I am sitting here in a dream - I just can't express my feelings. It hasn't sunk in that I have won yet”


Michael Schumacher dedicated his achievement to the memory of Ayrton Senna

"I want to dedicate this victory to Ayrton Senna. I always thought he'd win the championship this year. For me he was the greatest."


Michael Schumacher originally claimed it was a steering problem that caused him to collide with Damon Hill!

"I just wanted to turn into the corner and suddenly I saw Damon next to me and we just hit each other. I went up in the air, I was afraid because I thought I was going to roll over, but the car came back. My steering was not working. When I looked Damon was just there, I drove over his front wheel. When I hit the wall the steering broke."


Damon Hill, a gentleman to the bitter end

"It was a terrific race but it's over now. I have just got this empty feeling inside me. I saw an opportunity to overtake and thought I had to go for it, but it wasn't to be. I have to say everyone at Williams deserves a medal after the season we have had but I'll tell you this, we'll be back again next year.  I am not going to be drawn on the interpretation of what happened. That is something other people will do and I'm sure the debate over it will go on for a long time. We thought we had a chance but at the moment it is just difficult to accept it is finally over."


video:  primarily onboard action

video:  ‘external’ shots

Edited by Senna, 13 November 2005 - 07:14 PM.

[ykickamoocow]

That was deffently MS's fault. Thanks for the video

PS Could you possible find a video of the incident between MS and JV, ive never seen it.

[duest]

ykickamoocow, on Nov 13 2005, 11:51 AM, said:

That was deffently MS's fault. Thanks for the video

PS Could you possible find a video of the incident between MS and JV, ive never seen it.

External shot
MS onboard shot

These links are from the page 'Jacques Villeneuve - 97 F1 World Champion'

[ykickamoocow]

Thanks for the links.

[demonhorse]

ykickamoocow, on Nov 13 2005, 02:21 AM, said:

That was deffently MS's fault.

Oh dear typical anti-MS Bullsh*t, but then I expect nothing less of you.

Wwhen Damon was THAT FAR alongside, there was no way Schumi could possibly have seen him in his rear-view mirrors, and by the time he could have spotted him, it would have been far too late. This is the first time I have seen the onboard video, but I think any driver would have turned in to the corner if they couldn't see where the other driver was.


The one with Jacques I agree WAS Michael's fault, as his nose looked to be well within Michael's field of vision  before he turned.

Edited by demonhorse, 13 November 2005 - 10:39 AM.

[duest]

Another angle of the incident.

Don't kid yourself, MS knew DH was there.

[demonhorse]

duest, on Nov 13 2005, 11:33 AM, said:

Another angle of the incident.

Don't kid yourself, MS knew DH was there.

Yeah and JV knew Montoya was there in Japan...

I'll go with the ONBOARD, ya know where you can see mostly what Schumi could see, and probably a little more.

Edited by demonhorse, 13 November 2005 - 11:43 AM.

[duest]

demonhorse, on Nov 13 2005, 09:11 PM, said:

I'll go with the ONBOARD, ya know where you can see mostly what Schumi could see, and probably a little more.

Watch the video again. The point of impact and its lead up is shown from Damon's onboard camera. I contest that this is not the perspective that Schumi could see. Furthermore, a driver has the benefit of peripheral vision and mirrors, something the onboard camera does not. Schumacher is not inept, he knew Hill was there.

[Sato]

Your crazy, its not like this is the only controversial moment in his career....

Edited by Sato, 13 November 2005 - 12:10 PM.

[narain fan]

demonhorse, on Nov 13 2005, 03:41 PM, said:

Yeah and JV knew Montoya was there in Japan...

I'll go with the ONBOARD, ya know where you can see mostly what Schumi could see, and probably a little more.

watch carefully between secs 8 and 9 of the video pausing a few times in  betn after looking at the other angle ,you will notice that the direction of the helmet changes jst before impact(not by much ,but appritiably enough to imply that he was having a look  at exactly where hill's car was, so to say he didnt see him is baseless.it was deliberate!

Edited by narain fan, 13 November 2005 - 06:19 PM.

[Senna]

It was obviously deliberate!  As was Jerez a few years later…

I thank those who provided more videos. I have added another Adelaide video into my article…

Edited by Senna, 13 November 2005 - 07:17 PM.

[nojvnof1]

Duest, thank you very much for that JV webpage. It's fantastic!

Senna, great work once again. Thanks for the links Senna and Duest.

[monza gorilla]

Another good article, Senna. Keep up the good work!

[Wez]

Both Schumachers fault!

Look at the Jerez video... what driver turns into a corner so far before the apex of a corner... answer=NONE (only ones trying to cheat).

[AutoRacer5]

Wez, on Nov 14 2005, 05:29 AM, said:

Both Schumachers fault!

Look at the Jerez video... what driver turns into a corner so far before the apex of a corner... answer=NONE (only ones trying to cheat).

Unwritten rule no. 1: The corner belongs to the man in front. Henc, Schumi. Hill's wheels I dont think ever hit the curbing, hence he could have gone further to the right. Also, it was a bit ambitious by Damon I think.

Jerez 97: Had that arguement.

[Senna]

AutoRacer5, on Nov 14 2005, 12:04 PM, said:

Unwritten rule no. 1: The corner belongs to the man in front. Henc, Schumi.

If it’s not in the written constitution…just because you are in front, and Michael was only barely in front, does not automatically mean you are absolved of all blame for any resulting accident.  That’s a ludicrous suggestion as it follows that whenever there is an accident the pursuing driver is always at fault, regardless of the circumstances.  Michael is not inept.  Far from it.  He knew exactly where Damon was and he also knew that his car was fatally damaged and so his only remaining option was a collision, either that or concede.  The latter option was obviously unattractive.

AutoRacer5, on Nov 14 2005, 12:04 PM, said:

Hill's wheels I dont think ever hit the curbing, hence he could have gone further to the right. Also, it was a bit ambitious by Damon I think.

Hill couldn’t have gone any further to the right without damaging his car.  He was already touching the raised curbing and if he had driven over it completely, as you appear to suggest, he might have damaged his car.  There was no runoff area, just a concrete wall, so his options were very limited.  In hindsight and with a better perspective its easy to say that Damon should have waited until the Brabham straight or maybe a little sooner but he didn’t know that Michael’s car was fatally damaged, he saw his opponent slowing, presuming perhaps that Michael had run slightly wide and knew that he needed to capitalise on this as he might not get another chance.  

AutoRacer5, on Nov 14 2005, 12:04 PM, said:

Jerez 97: Had that arguement.

I don’t pretend to comprehend that remark.  At Jerez Michael repeated his dastardly trick and deliberately collided with JV.  If you watch the replay it is clear to see Michael looking in his mirrors, he knew where JV was…

Edited by Senna, 14 November 2005 - 08:00 PM.

[schumi13]

Senna, on Nov 14 2005, 07:57 PM, said:

If it’s not in the written constitution…just because you are in front, and Michael was only barely in front, does not automatically mean you are absolved of all blame for any resulting accident.  That’s a ludicrous suggestion as it follows that whenever there is an accident the pursuing driver is always at fault, regardless of the circumstances.  Michael is not inept.  Far from it.  He knew exactly where Damon was and he also knew that his car was fatally damaged and so his only remaining option was a collision, either that or concede.  The latter option was obviously unattractive.
Hill couldn’t have gone any further to the right without damaging his car.  He was already touching the raised curbing and if he had driven over it completely, as you appear to suggest, he might have damaged his car.  There was no runoff area, just a concrete wall, so his options were very limited.  In hindsight and with a better perspective its easy to say that Damon should have waited until the Brabham straight or maybe a little sooner but he didn’t know that Michael’s car was fatally damaged, he saw his opponent slowing, presuming perhaps that Michael had run slightly wide and knew that he needed to capitalise on this as he might not get another chance.  
I don’t pretend to comprehend that remark.  At Jerez Michael repeated his dastardly trick and deliberately collided with JV.  If you watch the replay it is clear to see Michael looking in his mirrors, he knew where JV was…

Someone should really write an article about Suzuka 1989 and 1990. If you lot don't let that go and I am not going to bother argueing with you then I will let go the above. Because I have personally seen video clips of those.

[demonhorse]

schumi13, on Nov 14 2005, 09:04 PM, said:

Someone should really write an article about Suzuka 1989 and 1990. If you lot don't let that go and I am not going to bother argueing with you then I will let go the above.

Obviously we're forgetting unwritten rule number 2; If your name's Michael Schumacher, you will be blamed for all kinds of BS, including Kimi Raikkonen engine failures... while no-one else can do any wrong

[AutoRacer5]

Michael Barely in front? His rear wheel was at the driver's area of the FW16, how can you say he wasnt in front? Also, explain Suzuka 1989 and 1990 if you will slag off MS...

[Wez]

schumi13, on Nov 14 2005, 11:04 PM, said:

Someone should really write an article about Suzuka 1989 and 1990. If you lot don't let that go and I am not going to bother argueing with you then I will let go the above. Because I have personally seen video clips of those.

Yes, Obviously someone should write an article since you lot were obviously too young to be watching F1 at the time.
Prost deliberately took out Senna in 1989. The following year it was only fair that Senna returned the favour. Any driver in Senna's position in 1990 would have done the same... It wasn't cheating it was sweet revenge!

Schumacher in 1994 & 1997 was blatent cheating, not once but twice (please tell me you youngsters actually were watching F1 at this time at least).

[schumi13]

Wez, on Nov 15 2005, 07:45 AM, said:

Yes, Obviously someone should write an article since you lot were obviously too young to be watching F1 at the time.
Prost deliberately took out Senna in 1989. The following year it was only fair that Senna returned the favour. Any driver in Senna's position in 1990 would have done the same... It wasn't cheating it was sweet revenge!

Schumacher in 1994 & 1997 was blatent cheating, not once but twice (please tell me you youngsters actually were watching F1 at this time at least).

I think that is an utterly ludacris statement. Two wrongs don't make a right I was thought in Primary school and Senna did this way before Michael Schumacher had the other two incidents. Clearly we have to listen to the FIA but from onboard in Jerez, Michael had the corner and Jacques made a too oportunistic overtaking manourve which could have taken them both out. Adelaide again was the same. Michael has the corner and has already covered Hill on one side so covers him on the other. Jerez wasn't Michael's fault but he had a role in Adelaide as if he never hit the concrete wall, many would respect him more then they do today.

Senna in 1989 was over ambitious. (please excuse any spelling errors I am very angry about this) I do not know if he was alongside but he did and took Prost out. A year later Senna just went straight on to the corner after he knew once Prost was in the lead, there would be no way he would get past easily. Why don't I use my points advantage and take him out! You think Schumacher did that, what kind of man does that make Senna if he was to blame for his own.

Seriously someone who watched it at the time (not Senna on the forum though) he will be bias..... write an article and that will seriously stir up should he be looked up to because Michael looked up to him. And taking out Jerez and I know why Senna didn't write an article about that one, Adelaide was equally Damon's and Michael's fault.

Edited by schumi13, 15 November 2005 - 04:36 PM.

[narain fan]

schumi13, on Nov 15 2005, 08:16 PM, said:

to the FIA but from onboard in Jerez, Michael had the corner and Jacques made a too oportunistic overtaking manourve which could have taken them both out. Adelaide again was the same. Michael has the corner and has already covered Hill on one side so covers him on the other. Jerez wasn't Michael's fault but he had a role in Adelaide as if he never hit the concrete wall, many would respect him more then they do today.

either u have not looked at the videos or too naive to understand and analyse
and u would never know about senna and his "TOTAL WAR " so forget about 89

[schumi13]

narain fan, on Nov 15 2005, 04:24 PM, said:

either u have not looked at the videos or too naive to understand and analyse
and u would never know about senna and his "TOTAL WAR " so forget about 89

You moronic people can't let go things that someone hasn't done who you probably envy because he has achieved more than anyone else. Senna did what he did, tuff. It's not going to go away if you fools cannot let Adelaide and I say Adelaide only away. It wasn't planned, it was an outcome that was totally written off and it happened. I do not back Michael because I am one of his fans I back him because it wasn't his fault. On the other hand I have stated Michael in Adelaide sealed his own fate just as Damon did the same.

[monza gorilla]

You obviously exist in some sort of parallel universe, Schumi13. Jerez was not Michael's fault??????   Are you completely  mad? Reasoned argument appears to be rather lacking in your posts, instead showing a blind loyalty to Herr Schumacher..

[schumi13]

monza gorilla, on Nov 15 2005, 04:59 PM, said:

You obviously exist in some sort of parallel universe, Schumi13. Jerez was not Michael's fault??????   Are you completely  mad? Reasoned argument appears to be rather lacking in your posts, instead showing a blind loyalty to Herr Schumacher..

Look at the above onboard links yourself, Jacques made an impossible pass when Schumacher had the corner. You don't just leave your opponents the option of the grass and down two positions or a crash with you. Jacques was inexperienced and unworthy that day and people still blame Michael today. Absolute rubbish and don't bother replying if you're old and you adore Senna.

Edited by schumi13, 15 November 2005 - 07:30 PM.

[monza gorilla]

schumi13, on Nov 15 2005, 05:10 PM, said:

Look at the above onboard links yourself, Jacques made an impossible pass when Schumacher had the corner. You don't just leave your opponents the option of the grass and down two positions or a crash with you. Jacques was inexperienced and unworthy that day and people still blame Michael today. Absolute rubbish and don't bother replying if you're old and your adore Senna.

Oh, I'll reply alright. We'll never know if JV would have made the corner because Michael took it upon himself to turn sharp right the moment Jaques was alongside. If you do not see that, then you are beyond any rational discussion on the subject. If you post a reply to this, please explain to me why, exactly, was Michael excluded from that seasons results?

[schumi13]

monza gorilla, on Nov 15 2005, 05:16 PM, said:

Oh, I'll reply alright. We'll never know if JV would have made the corner because Michael took it upon himself to turn sharp right the moment Jaques was alongside. If you do not see that, then you are beyond any rational discussion on the subject. If you post a reply to this, please explain to me why, exactly, was Michael excluded from that seasons results?

It was a spar of the moment thing, if he never and slammed the brakes he would of stalled frantically as it was a title decider or run wide into the gravel trap so turning in was the only option because of a irrational move by Jacques. Yes I can't argue with the FIA but they have got so many things wrong before, they certainly got that wrong.

[Senna]

monza gorilla, on Nov 15 2005, 04:59 PM, said:

You obviously exist in some sort of parallel universe, Schumi13. Jerez was not Michael's fault??????   Are you completely  mad? Reasoned argument appears to be rather lacking in your posts, instead showing a blind loyalty to Herr Schumacher..

[AutoRacer5]

Wez, on Nov 15 2005, 01:45 AM, said:

Yes, Obviously someone should write an article since you lot were obviously too young to be watching F1 at the time.
Prost deliberately took out Senna in 1989. The following year it was only fair that Senna returned the favour. Any driver in Senna's position in 1990 would have done the same... It wasn't cheating it was sweet revenge!

Schumacher in 1994 & 1997 was blatent cheating, not once but twice (please tell me you youngsters actually were watching F1 at this time at least).

So what you are saying is that Schumi doing the same things less than a decade later is called cheating? Pah, he was doing the same things Senna was doing, so it appears. They didnt get knocked for cheating, Schumi does...

I was 6 in 1994.

[monza gorilla]

schumi13, on Nov 15 2005, 05:57 PM, said:

It was a spar of the moment thing, if he never and slammed the brakes he would of stalled frantically as it was a title decider or run wide into the gravel trap so turning in was the only option because of a irrational move by Jacques. Yes I can't argue with the FIA but they have got so many things wrong before, they certainly got that wrong.

I assume you have the video. Watch Michael's steering input. Enough said.