169 replies to this topic

[vanguard63]

Senna was my personal favourite of all time, was he truly the greatest of all time? for me  YES! but based on what? 3 times champion, Prost was 4 times champion, races won? Prost won more but started his career 4yrs earlier than Senna, pole positions, Senna had more (and by a long way).......if its all about success in formula 1, then you can argue Schumacher won more than both of them put together. For me Senna raced as he died, on the razors edge, full of flare, passion and an unbending will to win, he was  one of F1's greatest characters.....Prost was effective.....but boring!

[kup]

vanguard63, on Dec 17 2006, 04:07 AM, said:

Prost was effective.....but boring!

And Death is so bright and so cool \ but Life is just so boring ? Well ... movies are much brighter than normal life. But it is fictiuos. And Life is REAL.

[F1 FANatic]

I think that technically, driving principle wise, Prost was the better of the two, but Senna made up for his slight lack with astounding natural skill at controlling the car and courage that was unrivaled. the top drivers can really only be put in a room together and called the best of the best.

[pumpdoc]

  

[rumblestrip]

Snuck my vote in.  

[Ctrl300]

rumblestrip, on Jan 18 2007, 03:25 PM, said:

Snuck my vote in.  

I love your taste mate
You know flash from steady
Love you sig btw.
Welcome to the forum!

[rumblestrip]

Ctrl300, on Jan 19 2007, 09:28 AM, said:

Welcome to the forum!

Thanks!

I have a lot of respect for Senna, but I always preferred Prost.  I have a bunch of on-board footage from the early 90's, and the difference in style was quite noticable.  Sometimes the footage was back-to-back on the same track.

First you'd ride with Ayrton, and it was a wild, balls-to-the-wall, trip around the track.  He'd roar into the turn, car squirming under the heavy braking, banging down through the gears, lots of steering input.  Then, coming out of the turn the tires would be on fire, with lots of little corrections with the wheel to keep the rear end in line.  Every lap seemed like it had to be a new lap record.  It was very exciting and inspiring to watch.

Then you'd get a lap with Alain, and he'd glide into the turn, then at the last second, with a huge rev of the engine, he'd go straight into the gear he needed for the turn. Then he'd roll the throttle on and the car would shoot forward with very little steering input.  It would leave you thinking, "Why the heck is he driving so slow?  Why doesn't he GO?!?"

Then you'd get the lap times, and there'd be .0125 sec difference, or something ridiculous like that.

All the time with Alain, you had the feeling that at any moment, if he wanted to, he could turn up the wick and just smoke everyone.  But he seemed to say, "This is as fast as I need to go right now" and that's how fast he went.  But he always seemed like it was a Sunday ride, while winning 4 (and nearly 2 more) world championships.

And that's what I grew to like about him.

That said, I don't know if a direct Senna/Prost comparison by the numbers is fair, since we lost Ayrton in his prime, and we have no way of knowing what he would have gone on to achieve.

Just my $0.02.  

[Ctrl300]

rumblestrip, on Jan 20 2007, 02:21 AM, said:

Thanks!

I have a lot of respect for Senna, but I always preferred Prost.  I have a bunch of on-board footage from the early 90's, and the difference in style was quite noticable.  Sometimes the footage was back-to-back on the same track.

First you'd ride with Ayrton, and it was a wild, balls-to-the-wall, trip around the track.  He'd roar into the turn, car squirming under the heavy braking, banging down through the gears, lots of steering input.  Then, coming out of the turn the tires would be on fire, with lots of little corrections with the wheel to keep the rear end in line.  Every lap seemed like it had to be a new lap record.  It was very exciting and inspiring to watch.

Then you'd get a lap with Alain, and he'd glide into the turn, then at the last second, with a huge rev of the engine, he'd go straight into the gear he needed for the turn. Then he'd roll the throttle on and the car would shoot forward with very little steering input.  It would leave you thinking, "Why the heck is he driving so slow?  Why doesn't he GO?!?"

Then you'd get the lap times, and there'd be .0125 sec difference, or something ridiculous like that.

All the time with Alain, you had the feeling that at any moment, if he wanted to, he could turn up the wick and just smoke everyone.  But he seemed to say, "This is as fast as I need to go right now" and that's how fast he went.  But he always seemed like it was a Sunday ride, while winning 4 (and nearly 2 more) world championships.

And that's what I grew to like about him.

That said, I don't know if a direct Senna/Prost comparison by the numbers is fair, since we lost Ayrton in his prime, and we have no way of knowing what he would have gone on to achieve.

Just my $0.02.  

Sadly, what is right with you is what is wrong with this forum. You have the feel for driving, while 90% of the members here have no clue about motorsport. Heck, some even does not have a drivers license yet talk about F1 as they are its high priests.
Your post is the best for a long time, and you are the best new addition to this forum for a long time.
Hope you keep such passionate and real posts coming mate!
Cheers!!!

[pabloh20]

rumblestrip, on Jan 19 2007, 03:21 PM, said:

Thanks!

I have a lot of respect for Senna, but I always preferred Prost.  I have a bunch of on-board footage from the early 90's, and the difference in style was quite noticable.  Sometimes the footage was back-to-back on the same track.

First you'd ride with Ayrton, and it was a wild, balls-to-the-wall, trip around the track.  He'd roar into the turn, car squirming under the heavy braking, banging down through the gears, lots of steering input.  Then, coming out of the turn the tires would be on fire, with lots of little corrections with the wheel to keep the rear end in line.  Every lap seemed like it had to be a new lap record.  It was very exciting and inspiring to watch.

Then you'd get a lap with Alain, and he'd glide into the turn, then at the last second, with a huge rev of the engine, he'd go straight into the gear he needed for the turn. Then he'd roll the throttle on and the car would shoot forward with very little steering input.  It would leave you thinking, "Why the heck is he driving so slow?  Why doesn't he GO?!?"

Then you'd get the lap times, and there'd be .0125 sec difference, or something ridiculous like that.

All the time with Alain, you had the feeling that at any moment, if he wanted to, he could turn up the wick and just smoke everyone.  But he seemed to say, "This is as fast as I need to go right now" and that's how fast he went.  But he always seemed like it was a Sunday ride, while winning 4 (and nearly 2 more) world championships.

And that's what I grew to like about him.

That said, I don't know if a direct Senna/Prost comparison by the numbers is fair, since we lost Ayrton in his prime, and we have no way of knowing what he would have gone on to achieve.

Just my $0.02.  

Is this the footage you're considering recording from vcr to your PC, Rumble?

While considering these 2 great drivers, it has to be said, I found my self considering different scenarios, it seemed the only way my mind would work!   .  I am judging this purely from memory (failing I might add) of watching them race.

If they were given identical cars that weren't set up to favour either of their driving styles, who would win?  I would have to go with Senna on that one.

If they were to set up identical cars as they would do over a race weekend, who would win?  I would probably have to go with Prost on that one.

If they were racing in the rain?  I would say Senna.

If they had to drive a tactical race?  I would say Prost, however if you needed 1 of the 2 to put in some seriously quick laps before a pit stop, like in today's races, then I may go for Senna.

Who would be most likely to make a mistake?  I would have to say Senna.

I have voted for Senna, as for me, he just edges it.

Edit:  I am agreeing with Wez, he'll never let me forget it!!  

Edited by pabloh20, 19 January 2007 - 04:22 PM.

[rumblestrip]

pabloh20, on Jan 19 2007, 11:20 AM, said:

Is this the footage you're considering recording from vcr to your PC, Rumble?

Some of it, yes.  I have lots and lots of footage from the era.  Anything I thought I might miss (by virtue of oversleeping, etc) I taped.  And I usually taped the lap with the David Hobbs comments that they use to do at the beginning whether I intended to tape the whole race or not.

As for the whole "who would win if..." thing, I think you can keep adding "ifs" until the end of time.  For sure Senna was pretty much un-beatable in the rain, and he was a very strong qualifier, so I agree with you on both those points.

These were two of the greatest drivers of their time, and perhaps of all time, and they both earned their places in history.

[kup]

Maybe the only truth is AP+AS is simply the best pair of team-mates in F-1 history. May we have a poll about best pairs of team-mates ?

[Player(1)]

kup, on Jan 19 2007, 05:55 PM, said:

Maybe the only truth is AP+AS is simply the best pair of team-mates in F-1 history. May we have a poll about best pairs of team-mates ?

Alonso+Hamilton will see history repeat itself but this time even more intense since they are both thinking man's drivers.

[pabloh20]

rumblestrip, on Jan 19 2007, 04:42 PM, said:

Some of it, yes.  I have lots and lots of footage from the era.  Anything I thought I might miss (by virtue of oversleeping, etc) I taped.  And I usually taped the lap with the David Hobbs comments that they use to do at the beginning whether I intended to tape the whole race or not.

As for the whole "who would win if..." thing, I think you can keep adding "ifs" until the end of time.  For sure Senna was pretty much un-beatable in the rain, and he was a very strong qualifier, so I agree with you on both those points.

These were two of the greatest drivers of their time, and perhaps of all time, and they both earned their places in history.

Cool - I think a few people on here would be interested in the footage!  

I completely agree regarding the 'if' scenarios, but it was the only way I could really rationalise it - I did say I was considering 2 great drivers!    For sure, they have earned their place in history.

[pabloh20]

kup, on Jan 19 2007, 05:55 PM, said:

Maybe the only truth is AP+AS is simply the best pair of team-mates in F-1 history. May we have a poll about best pairs of team-mates ?

Maybe that's the only way to do it, Kup.  I certainly don't think there has been a partnering anywhere near as good since then.

Player(1), on Jan 19 2007, 06:04 PM, said:

Alonso+Hamilton will see history repeat itself but this time even more intense since they are both thinking man's drivers.

Well, I admire your confidence in how good Hamilton can be, Player, but it might be a tad early to judge yet!  

[kup]

Player(1), on Jan 19 2007, 09:04 PM, said:

Alonso+Hamilton will see history repeat itself but this time even more intense since they are both thinking man's drivers.

Nice. Heh. Well. Actually i`m talking mostly of historic pairs. Aha? This is AP+AS topic by the way. Future prognosis is for other topix. (imho)

[Argento Reloaded]

And what about Fangio and Moss? If you consider the most wining drivers in F1 history only 2nd, 3rd and 4th race against each other: Prost, Senna and Mansell. All other drivers including MS race against less talented drivers. That´s the main reason for considering Prost and Senna in top 5 of all time (with Fangio, Clark and MS)

[kup]

Yep. Maybe JMF + SM as well. Just they have far (18 years) bithdays: 24-06-1911 + 17-09-1929. Graham Hill by the way (62+68! WDC) is 15-02-1929.
And AP + AS has it just 5 years. And by the way i still doubt MS is in Top-5. Sure he is in Top-10 anyway.

Edited by kup, 19 January 2007 - 06:43 PM.

[kup]

I wonder why Stewart - Fittipaldi - Lauda - all never were team-mates. They could be epic mates.

[ferrari]

SENNA WAS GREAT IT WAS A PETTY THAT HE DIED SO SOON AND WE COULD NOT SEE THE FIGHT BETWEEN HIM AND MS FOR MORE YEARS. PROST WAS GOOD BUT SO WHERE MOST OF THEM DRIVING IN THAT ERA NOT LIKE TODAY WHITH SOME OF THESE YUNGSTER WHO PAY FOR A DRIVE AND SOMETIME ENDANGER THE SPORT AND DRIVERS THAT ARE GOOD.

[Quiet One]

ferrari, on Feb 18 2007, 10:38 AM, said:

SENNA WAS GREAT IT WAS A PETTY THAT HE DIED SO SOON AND WE COULD NOT SEE THE FIGHT BETWEEN HIM AND MS FOR MORE YEARS. PROST WAS GOOD BUT SO WHERE MOST OF THEM DRIVING IN THAT ERA NOT LIKE TODAY WHITH SOME OF THESE YUNGSTER WHO PAY FOR A DRIVE AND SOMETIME ENDANGER THE SPORT AND DRIVERS THAT ARE GOOD.

Edit: nevermind

Edited by Quiet One, 20 February 2007 - 09:23 PM.