What's Not To Like

[Max Mosley 2]

Successful pilots like Michael are under the spotlight far more than others. The magnitude of their errors seems larger as a result. Relative to his successes, Michael's errors were insignificant, but granted, they were there.

Yeah. I think so too.

[Insider 0]

I'd like to know the Insider line on how RB was able to beat JB this year. Not that I think he deserved to, but still, it doesn't augment his reputation. Lewis doesn't seem to have Schumi's brains and it remains to be seen how adaptable he can be, as well as how well he develops a car in the long term. He's surely more than a one hit wonder though, and definitely better than Monty, JV or JB.

Oh yeah, and MS was great but people already look back and forget all the mistakes he made too. Lewis had plenty of howlers in his first 2 years, but Schumi was still making horrible mistakes much later on.

RB was desperate to keep his seat and Jens was heavily de-motivated by the shocking car he had?

[Insider 0]

I have time now, so I'll address the points you raised here. The term clueless immediately comes to mind, but perhaps blind fan boy is more apt.

Your main comparison is between jenson and Lewis. The facts are that Jenson was beaten by Ralf in his rookie year - fact! Lewis matched and classified ahead of the incumbent WDC and a 2 x wdc at that - fact! All the rubbish you write about simulators, the best team blah blah is just that, blah blah blah. A simulator cannot simulate every race condition - it cannot, for example, simulate crowd noise, pressure of expectation etc etc.

Your argument is again flawed because you are making a rookie mistake (for one claiming to be so knowledgeable) in comparing drivers of different eras. You liken Lewis to Mansell and assert that he doesn't have smoothness of JB or the icy brain of Michael, but he IS THE WDC AND A CONSISTENT WINNER - in fact he has scored more points, podiums and race wins than any other driver during his short time in F1 - what else can he do? Oh, he is as good as all the 'other' rookies like Piquet, Nakajima, Bourdais - indeed!

As for JB, I repeat, he is not proven on Bridgestone tyres. Al his 'smooth' performances were on michelin tyres, but unlike Alonso, Kubica and Kimi he has not been able to make the transistion because he doesn't have the wherewithal or talent of the aforementioned drivers. Jenson is living off past glories, glories that were achieved on Michelins and, dare I say it, the infamous false fuel tank - Funny how BAR have never recovered since their cheating car was banned and the team publicly humiliated as cheats.

You come on here in the false belief that you are preaching to idiots, the ignorant. You are wrong my friend, I've been watching F1 for 25 years, so I've seen Mansell, Senna, Schumacher, Prost, Piquet etc etc drive, I'm not clueless.

I accept you are entitled to your opinion, try if you can to have considered arguments because the points you raise here sound like the ramblings of an old fool.

Old fool - certainly. Rambling - not quite yet. We're not going to start discussing teams that cheat - are we! Really! You want to? By the way, who was your favourite driver before LH came along?

[dribbler 6]

RB was desperate to keep his seat and Jens was heavily de-motivated by the shocking car he had?

I think that's probably true; it's a popular theory. It doesn't make it right, though. Alonso drove the wheels off his Renault this year. I really got a sense that his commitment and dogged determination literally dragged the team up to his level to deliver him a good car by year end. Those are the actions of a champion. His pride would not allow him to sulk and settle, like Jenson did, in my opinion.

[Insider 0]

I think it's easy to be too analytical. The sum total of a driver and his equipment is demonstrated by his achievements at the end of a season. I don't care whether Hamilton won by one point or not, he got the job done. He's a champion. You seem quite sure that Lewis won't win another title. I'm not sure what that is based on. With the current level of driver competition and the likelyhood of a competitive car, Lewis is, in my opinion the odds on favourite for another title next year. I would be interested to hear your logic to the contrary. And LDM would rather 'a' Massa than 'a' Hamilton. What does that mean? Is he pigeon holing Felipe and Lewis as 'types' of driver or is he being specific about each guy? Massa has improved, massively but then it's clear, to me, that Lewis will get better than he is already. And he's already, arguably more complete than Massa. Can Luca really be objective when making a statement like that?

Successful pilots like Michael are under the spotlight far more than others. The magnitude of their errors seems larger as a result. Relative to his successes, Michael's errors were insignificant, but granted, they were there.

I think Luca is rarely objective but it was a convenient quote for my argument. I feel that McBenz and Ferrari will go backwards this year - IMO. KERS is only one area where they are struggling. Apparently, the new silver car is eating slicks like a glutton. It's gonna be a muddle all round for sure with no in-season testing, more rule changes and a driver is only as good as his ride. MS made idiotic mistakes and ruined his reputation at Monaco into the bargain but winning the WDC seven times was a unique achievement that brings it's own kind of pressure.

[Fed up 0]

Old fool - certainly. Rambling - not quite yet. We're not going to start discussing teams that cheat - are we! Really! You want to? By the way, who was your favourite driver before LH came along?

Schumacher

Hill

Mansell

[Insider 0]

I think that's probably true; it's a popular theory. It doesn't make it right, though. Alonso drove the wheels off his Renault this year. I really got a sense that his commitment and dogged determination literally dragged the team up to his level to deliver him a good car by year end. Those are the actions of a champion. His pride would not allow him to sulk and settle, like Jenson did, in my opinion.

I think JB was on the verge of quitting until Ross came along but he couldn't master the Bridgestones and Ross's wand didn't wave either. RB got about as fired up in that 'shed' as anyone could. Jens virtually operated in a testing role.

[Fed up 0]

I think JB was on the verge of quitting until Ross came along but he couldn't master the Bridgestones and Ross's wand didn't wave either. RB got about as fired up in that 'shed' as anyone could. Jens virtually operated in a testing role.

He still can't master the bridgestones. You know, at Silverstone both Ruebens and JB were on full wets - JB beached it, Reubens scored a podium. Now, JB has always been lauded as the rainmaster, but most fail to realise that like Alonso he was only hot on Michelin inters.

Next year, if he drives, he'll not only have to master the bridgestone characteristics, he'll also have to get to grips with slicks. His learning rate is not on a par with Lewis, Nando or Kubica so i'm guessing he'll struggle.

[Rainmaster 7]

He still can't master the bridgestones. You know, at Silverstone both Ruebens and JB were on full wets - JB beached it, Reubens scored a podium. Now, JB has always been lauded as the rainmaster, but most fail to realise that like Alonso he was only hot on Michelin inters.

Next year, if he drives, he'll not only have to master the bridgestone characteristics, he'll also have to get to grips with slicks. His learning rate is not on a par with Lewis, Nando or Kubica so i'm guessing he'll struggle.

I think they (slicks) will suit him better if anything. Let us see.

[Rainmaster 7]

I think that's probably true; it's a popular theory. It doesn't make it right, though. Alonso drove the wheels off his Renault this year. I really got a sense that his commitment and dogged determination literally dragged the team up to his level to deliver him a good car by year end. Those are the actions of a champion. His pride would not allow him to sulk and settle, like Jenson did, in my opinion.

+1

[dribbler 6]

I think Luca is rarely objective but it was a convenient quote for my argument. I feel that McBenz and Ferrari will go backwards this year - IMO. KERS is only one area where they are struggling. Apparently, the new silver car is eating slicks like a glutton. It's gonna be a muddle all round for sure with no in-season testing, more rule changes and a driver is only as good as his ride. MS made idiotic mistakes and ruined his reputation at Monaco into the bargain but winning the WDC seven times was a unique achievement that brings it's own kind of pressure.

Sorry, I rarely take issue with criticism thrown at Michael becaue some of it deserved and I like to think I'm objective enough to have a discussion about it, but 'idiotic'? I think it's important to have a little perspective. Please give me some examples of mistakes that justify the adjective.

As for his reputation being ruined by Monaco? His reputation was already ruined. Ruined before Damon parked his battered Williams and ruined before he was even world champion.

[mikathegreat2 2]

You still Havn't introduced you Dad's Fiancee to this forum!

Oh shut up !

[Jean Todt 4]

Oh shut up !

[Insider 0]

Sorry, I rarely take issue with criticism thrown at Michael becaue some of it deserved and I like to think I'm objective enough to have a discussion about it, but 'idiotic'? I think it's important to have a little perspective. Please give me some examples of mistakes that justify the adjective.

As for his reputation being ruined by Monaco? His reputation was already ruined. Ruined before Damon parked his battered Williams and ruined before he was even world champion.

The shunt in the tunnel at Monaco?

[Jean Todt 4]

I think JB was on the verge of quitting until Ross came along but he couldn't master the Bridgestones and Ross's wand didn't wave either. RB got about as fired up in that 'shed' as anyone could. Jens virtually operated in a testing role.

I disagree about Jens taking a virtual test role. It is like a student who has to repeat another year in the same class because he failed to pass during final exams, but he claims that he wanted to repeat so that he could study better, honestly we all know that the person was not good enough to be promoted.

[Insider 0]

I disagree about Jens taking a virtual test role. It is like a student who has to repeat another year in the same class because he failed to pass during final exams, but he claims that he wanted to repeat so that he could study better, honestly we all know that the person was not good enough to be promoted.

I know, it's sad - will I be the only one to post on Christmas Day? Probably, yes. With no grandchildren yet and one offspring in khaki in Helmand and the other in Canada with her new hubby, I'm just up early cooking the rare beef while the wife has a rare lie-in. I wish you all a very Merry Christmas.

As far as the above quote is concerned, I wasn't suggesting for one minute that Jens had placed himself in the 'remove', as you suggest. I was using the phrase, 'virtual test role' purely as a metaphor. He and RB have completely different driving styles and where the BS boots suited his colleague, Jens seemed to spend the entire season locked in his now perpetual battle with Bridgestone boots. The downside of that is a lack of focus on the other parts of one's game. If you get the 'yips' with your putter in golf, the rest of your game goes west. This particular tyre brand appears to be JB's nemesis though I do believe he will find some real pace on the slick version - if he gets the chance, of course. As far as having sufficient merit for promotion, I think the chunky sum of money Honda had re-signed him for speaks for that.

[dribbler 6]

The shunt in the tunnel at Monaco?

It takes two to tango. In that case the dance partner was that fat shunt, Montoya.

[dribbler 6]

I know, it's sad - will I be the only one to post on Christmas Day? Probably, yes.

The only thing sadder than that is me quickly logging on whilst mrs drib makes the winter root vegetable mash.

[Jean Todt 4]

I know, it's sad - will I be the only one to post on Christmas Day? Probably, yes. With no grandchildren yet and one offspring in khaki in Helmand and the other in Canada with her new hubby, I'm just up early cooking the rare beef while the wife has a rare lie-in. I wish you all a very Merry Christmas.

As far as the above quote is concerned, I wasn't suggesting for one minute that Jens had placed himself in the 'remove', as you suggest. I was using the phrase, 'virtual test role' purely as a metaphor. He and RB have completely different driving styles and where the BS boots suited his colleague, Jens seemed to spend the entire season locked in his now perpetual battle with Bridgestone boots. The downside of that is a lack of focus on the other parts of one's game. If you get the 'yips' with your putter in golf, the rest of your game goes west. This particular tyre brand appears to be JB's nemesis though I do believe he will find some real pace on the slick version - if he gets the chance, of course. As far as having sufficient merit for promotion, I think the chunky sum of money Honda had re-signed him for speaks for that.

Yes sad, cos almost all the public transport has not been functioning, cos you know, its Christmas and I am living in Italy.

Merry Christmas to you too.

Okay okay, I surrender , you Cheer Jens, I cheer Lewis. Take care g, I got to walk 5km on snow for a christmas lunch treat. Oh Merry Christmas to everyone.

[Jean Todt 4]

It takes two to tango. In that case the dance partner was that fat shunt, Montoya.

[freaky2 1]

Take care g, I got to walk 5km on snow for a christmas lunch treat. Oh Merry Christmas to everyone.

At least you get snow, and don't be a wimp

[Quiet One 15]

'nuff said.

[Rainmaster 7]

'nuff said.

I thought you might post that. Alonso probably is better at dealing with pressure, I always thought that was one of his (many) strong points when battling MS in 2006. Schumi was/is better in most other areas though, and I think if they were team mates Schumi would win the psychological battle.

[Quiet One 15]

I thought you might post that. Alonso probably is better at dealing with pressure, I always thought that was one of his (many) strong points when battling MS in 2006. Schumi was/is better in most other areas though, and I think if they were team mates Schumi would win the psychological battle.

I don't think Alonso handles the pressure better than Schumi, actually. I just found it curious that Briatore would say that. I mean, if he just wanted to compliment Nando, he could have chosen something that didn't sound that preposterous. Maybe we can't see some things about the drivers they do. Maybe Briatore is talking out of his a## as usual. I do agree with him in one point, though. Alonso learns from his past mistakes. Maybe it takes some time. But this year's Nando handled adversity so much better than last year.

And learning from mistakes is more crucial for being a champion than being a cheater, or a prick (both qualities that Nando has, not meant as a dig to Lewis or MS...well, at least not meant just that ).

I say that because there's an over focusing on the winners bad traits as if they were important. MS was a cheater, so what? That was the mark of a true champion. Nando was a whiner, so what? That was the mark of a true champion. Lewis was a prick, so what? Etc., etc. I think those were all bad traits. And they won because of their virtues: Sheer talent, speed and determination in the case of MS; Hard work, determination and cunning in the case of Nando; Raw speed, determination and aggressiveness (the good part of his aggressiveness) and a fair amount of luck in the last race for Lewis, ditto for Kimi last year.

[Fed up 0]

I don't think Alonso handles the pressure better than Schumi, actually. I just found it curious that Briatore would say that. I mean, if he just wanted to compliment Nando, he could have chosen something that didn't sound that preposterous. Maybe we can't see some things about the drivers they do. Maybe Briatore is talking out of his a## as usual. I do agree with him in one point, though. Alonso learns from his past mistakes. Maybe it takes some time. But this year's Nando handled adversity so much better than last year.

And learning from mistakes is more crucial for being a champion than being a cheater, or a prick (both qualities that Nando has, not meant as a dig to Lewis or MS...well, at least not meant just that ).

I say that because there's an over focusing on the winners bad traits as if they were important. MS was a cheater, so what? That was the mark of a true champion. Nando was a whiner, so what? That was the mark of a true champion. Lewis was a prick, so what? Etc., etc. I think those were all bad traits. And they won because of their virtues: Sheer talent, speed and determination in the case of MS; Hard work, determination and cunning in the case of Nando; Raw speed, determination and aggressiveness (the good part of his aggressiveness) and a fair amount of luck in the last race for Lewis, ditto for Kimi last year.