Jv To The Kimi. Oh Yeah!

[Insider 0]

He came back once already and was too slow. He's been out of it for even longer and I have no reason to think anything other than he will still be slow.

His singing sucks and he can't play the guitar very well.

He mad hevy weather of the one championship he did win.

His move to BAR was ill considered and his best friend Craig Pollock is a fool.

He never was and never will be a patch on Michael Schumacher.

He has a nonsensical following led by the the blind, ill informed and over sympathetic.

His overalls don't fit.

His Dad was great, he isn't.

His glasses look stupid.

He got dumped by Danni Minogue.

Can we have threads about current, committed and useful drivers who aren't over payed or washed up?

Harsh but sadly, true. Stefan GP will not race this year if Jean Todt has any balls. They, along with USF1 and Hispanner haven't run an inch of testing and there are serious safety issues with that. I addition, Ferrari won't hear of it.

[JHS 1]

Insider raises a fair point. With no testing for the likes of Campos/Hispania, they are going to be both hideously off the pace and unsafe. Lotus and Virgin are ready, let's just go with them this year until maybe some more creditable entries come along at the end of 2010.

[DOF_power 0]

Do you actually remember the '97 season? Too many people lately are buying into the supposed fact that the Williams was that much better of a car than the competition. Perhaps it was, in 1995, but by the time JV won the championship, the competitors had caught up. Go do some looking around at the race results of that time and you'll find that both Williams' were rarely more than a half second faster in the races they won. My memories of that year were of many cars getting close to the Williams. Sure, you have Patrick (d#ck)Head saying that JV made rough weather of the '97 season, but all you have to do is compare the gap JV and HIll had to the competition the previous year. Clearly, the competition caught up. Also consider that Mikey, in a slightly underperforming Ferrari was quite a bit faster than the superior Williams on occasion.

In the end no argument I could muster will change anyone's mind. You either like JV or you don't. I do, you don't. So it goes.

In 96 Williams were superior and the Ferraris slow, unrelaible and difficult to drive. In 97 the Ferraris and McLarens were more up to pace, in the wet Schumacher made the difference.

In 95 Schumacher in his Benetton-Renault completely trashed Williams. In 94 Schumacher was dominant ever before Senna died (that 3 race ban/masquerade opened the championship artificially).

[Autumnpuma 0]

In 96 Williams were superior and the Ferraris slow, unrelaible and difficult to drive. In 97 the Ferraris and McLarens were more up to pace, in the wet Schumacher made the difference.

In 95 Schumacher in his Benetton-Renault completely trashed Williams. In 94 Schumacher was dominant ever before Senna died (that 3 race ban/masquerade opened the championship artificially).

So you're agreeing with me. Thanks. You forget to mention that Benetton had also caught up in '97; didn't they win a race?

[dribbler 6]

You set the bar too high. No driver will be on a 'similar level' to Mikey and you well know it. So, what do we do with all the drivers that can't measure up to Mikey? If we chucked them all there would be a grid of one. You also realize that not too long ago, Button looked pretty sh!tty in a Renault...er..Bennetoon...er...same thing, really. The car does matter; some suit a driver and some don't. Now, are you suggesting that JV has no worth whatsoever? I know JV and Mikey fans are at odds with each other, but, really, when you say he shouldn't be taken seriously you're just being over the top. Of course he has worth.

What you're asking is what can JV bring to a team to justify his return? A fighting spirit with a 'never give up' attitude and a very good ability to develop a car. Both will serve a new team well. Aside from that, he's the last of the old-time racers. He speaks his mind. He brake-checks his rivals. He plays mind games. He is the only driver who was literally raised in F1. My favorite picture of him was when he was 8 or so and he's sitting at the wheel of his father's Ferrari. When you an I were throwing dirt at our friends in a school sandbox, Jacques was smelling petrol, hot asphalt and hearing the roar of a Ferrari V12. He was watching the greats of F1 walk tall and he learned from that. It's a part of him and he's the only driver on the grid who can claim Formula 1 as his home. Not even Mikey, with all his titles and records, has that.

Having Jacques on the grid is a reminder of what a real Formula 1 racer should be like. He's not sanitized or refined; he's a vivid reminder of what we've lost in F1. If everyone was a fan of a driver just by the records that driver has racked up, then we'd all be Mikey fans. But we're not. What worth does JV have? He's worth 12 Pedro de la Rosas, 6 Adrian Sutils, 5 Jarno Trullis and 2 Nico Rosbergs. What will he impart to a new team and the grid as a whole? Formula 1, 1980. And that, my friend, has worth.

Great post, Mike. I haven't got time now to give you the reply it deserves.

[JHS 1]

So neither Kimi nor JV will be on the grid this season. What a shame.

[dribbler 6]

You set the bar too high. No driver will be on a 'similar level' to Mikey and you well know it. So, what do we do with all the drivers that can't measure up to Mikey? If we chucked them all there would be a grid of one. You also realize that not too long ago, Button looked pretty sh!tty in a Renault...er..Bennetoon...er...same thing, really. The car does matter; some suit a driver and some don't. Now, are you suggesting that JV has no worth whatsoever? I know JV and Mikey fans are at odds with each other, but, really, when you say he shouldn't be taken seriously you're just being over the top. Of course he has worth.

What you're asking is what can JV bring to a team to justify his return? A fighting spirit with a 'never give up' attitude and a very good ability to develop a car. Both will serve a new team well. Aside from that, he's the last of the old-time racers. He speaks his mind. He brake-checks his rivals. He plays mind games. He is the only driver who was literally raised in F1. My favorite picture of him was when he was 8 or so and he's sitting at the wheel of his father's Ferrari. When you an I were throwing dirt at our friends in a school sandbox, Jacques was smelling petrol, hot asphalt and hearing the roar of a Ferrari V12. He was watching the greats of F1 walk tall and he learned from that. It's a part of him and he's the only driver on the grid who can claim Formula 1 as his home. Not even Mikey, with all his titles and records, has that.

Having Jacques on the grid is a reminder of what a real Formula 1 racer should be like. He's not sanitized or refined; he's a vivid reminder of what we've lost in F1. If everyone was a fan of a driver just by the records that driver has racked up, then we'd all be Mikey fans. But we're not. What worth does JV have? He's worth 12 Pedro de la Rosas, 6 Adrian Sutils, 5 Jarno Trullis and 2 Nico Rosbergs. What will he impart to a new team and the grid as a whole? Formula 1, 1980. And that, my friend, has worth.

Setting the bar too high or not, you ignore the fact that his previous comeback attempt was lame, to say the least. This is why I ask the question 'why is he a credible alternative to any other number of drivers'? I was trying to make the argument rational and logical but unfortunately you have become misty eyed and basing your argument on emotion. Don't get me wrong, I get emotional and sentimental about F1 too, but it has no place in this discussion.

I can sit here and recount all the great Villeneuve drives, the time he went around the outside of Michael in the last corner at Estoril, for example, but i fail to see its relevence on selecting him as a pilot for here and now.

I disagree about his worth. I do not understand how someone who became second rate by the time he departed F1 would suddenly become fast and worthwhile after such a long time out, I really don't.

And my appreciation of Michael has nothing to do with numbers, it has to do with his skill, his strength, his passion and his brilliant mind. So please Mike, don't suggest otherwise. I was a fan long before his first title, nothing to do with stats.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

So Stefan GP not on the grid.

Ooh Steph you dodged the bullet on that one

[JHS 1]

Ahh, that's an even bigger shame. Never thought of that, but yeah, I'm gutted.

[cavallino 2]

Having Jacques on the grid is a reminder of what a real Formula 1 racer should be like. He's not sanitized or refined; he's a vivid reminder of what we've lost in F1. If everyone was a fan of a driver just by the records that driver has racked up, then we'd all be Mikey fans. But we're not. What worth does JV have? He's worth 12 Pedro de la Rosas, 6 Adrian Sutils, 5 Jarno Trullis and 2 Nico Rosbergs. What will he impart to a new team and the grid as a whole? Formula 1, 1980. And that, my friend, has worth.

That's just nostalgia Mike, that JV isn't coming back. Much better to have a Kobayashi on the grid - I am sure there are many young drivers who carry that spirit in them, JV isn't the last of the Mohicans. JV doesn't have the work ethic to survive in F1 at his age.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Setting the bar too high or not, you ignore the fact that his previous comeback attempt was lame, to say the least. This is why I ask the question 'why is he a credible alternative to any other number of drivers'? I was trying to make the argument rational and logical but unfortunately you have become misty eyed and basing your argument on emotion. Don't get me wrong, I get emotional and sentimental about F1 too, but it has no place in this discussion.

If emotion isn't part of an F1 discussion then what's the point? I did give you some non-emotional reasons but you didn't see the worth in those. What more can I say?

I can sit here and recount all the great Villeneuve drives, the time he went around the outside of Michael in the last corner at Estoril, for example, but i fail to see its relevence on selecting him as a pilot for here and now.

I disagree about his worth. I do not understand how someone who became second rate by the time he departed F1 would suddenly become fast and worthwhile after such a long time out, I really don't.

He wasn't the fastest on the grid but he wasn't the slowest either. He would be joining a new team, not an established one with a shot at wins or the title. A new team, in my opinion, needs those qualities I've listed in JV. They need a fighter who won't give up. They need a driver who will speak his mind about how the car behaves (his worth as a technical developer of a car is largely ignored..but many Renault personnel, as well as Robert Kubeetza, have given him his props). So he's not as fast as others on the grid....neither is Trulli or Sutil. Why would that be a hindrance to a new team hiring him..considering what they'll gain from it?

And my appreciation of Michael has nothing to do with numbers, it has to do with his skill, his strength, his passion and his brilliant mind. So please Mike, don't suggest otherwise. I was a fan long before his first title, nothing to do with stats.

Ah, so emotion does have a place in this discussion after all. I'm not allowed to bring up JV's fighting spirit but you can cite Mikey's passion? Why is my bit of misty-eyed emotionalism not relevant and yours is?

That's just nostalgia Mike, that JV isn't coming back. Much better to have a Kobayashi on the grid - I am sure there are many young drivers who carry that spirit in them, JV isn't the last of the Mohicans. JV doesn't have the work ethic to survive in F1 at his age.

I would dispute the work ethic comment, but what you say is pretty near the mark I think. I might also say that JV is, indeed, the last of the Mohicans, but everything needs to end. There are enough drivers with a good racing spirit, as you say.

[Kopite Girl 0]

So Stefan GP not on the grid.

Ooh Steph you dodged the bullet on that one

I'm just glad I don't have to walk through the cold! And put up with you old perverts -and a young one in JHS- talking about it for months!! Ha!

[dribbler 6]

He wasn't the fastest on the grid but he wasn't the slowest either. He would be joining a new team, not an established one with a shot at wins or the title. A new team, in my opinion, needs those qualities I've listed in JV. They need a fighter who won't give up. They need a driver who will speak his mind about how the car behaves (his worth as a technical developer of a car is largely ignored..but many Renault personnel, as well as Robert Kubeetza, have given him his props). So he's not as fast as others on the grid....neither is Trulli or Sutil. Why would that be a hindrance to a new team hiring him..considering what they'll gain from it?

Because it did nothing to help BAR out of the technical doldrums. Again, whay should it be different now. You cite JV's technical feedback as an almost essential quality and yet, apart from the fact that he couldn't help make the BAR any good, Patrick Head always said the at he nearly binned the '97 season through his stubborness on the technical front. Why do have such faith in him in this area?

Ah, so emotion does have a place in this discussion after all. I'm not allowed to bring up JV's fighting spirit but you can cite Mikey's passion? Why is my bit of misty-eyed emotionalism not relevant and yours is?

I don't think I am being misty eyed. By that I mean that I believe my faith in Micahel was always backed by substance, not what I hoped for or what could have been, but what actually happened. I'm not misty eyed about Michael's return either. It might be great, it might be just okay. Yes, I'm excited about it, but I think the two things are different.

[JHS 1]

I'm just glad I don't have to walk through the cold! And put up with you old perverts -and a young one in JHS- talking about it for months!! Ha!

Maybe you should change your statement to "If Karun Chandhok ever scores a point", that way you'll always be safe.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

I'm just glad I don't have to walk through the cold! And put up with you old perverts -and a young one in JHS- talking about it for months!! Ha!

You know guys I think she really would have done it....

Damn you JV! You couldn't even get this right!

[Autumnpuma 0]

Because it did nothing to help BAR out of the technical doldrums. Again, whay should it be different now. You cite JV's technical feedback as an almost essential quality and yet, apart from the fact that he couldn't help make the BAR any good, Patrick Head always said the at he nearly binned the '97 season through his stubborness on the technical front. Why do have such faith in him in this area?

BAR's problem went deeper than anything a driver could solve. Despite that, he did rack up some pretty good drives while there. The BAR wasn't ever a good car until a proper chassis was constructed for it, but the team held together to eventually become Champions. I credit JV as being the early 'glue' that helped to hold the team together. In a past issue of F1 Racing, there was an interview with Pat Symonds and JV's race engineer at Renault and they both lauded JV's technical skill. I wonder how much of Renault's eventual winning of races and championships were due to something JV imparted to the team in this brief time there. Even Sauber benefited, if we think along those lines. One could argue that JV was so bad that every team he was in started winning after he left, but that argument can be turned around too, to JV's benefit.

Now most of that is speculation on my part, but the Symonds remarks are true. When Kubeetza was a test driver he claimed to have learned alot from JV (true as well). Not quick Nick, but JV. Kubeetza went on to become a stellar racing driver.

Was JV stubborn as Patrick D!ckhead has said? Considering that he was trying to foist inferior parts on JV, and JV refused...and eventually won the title....goes to prove that his stubborness was rooted in a technical affinity for his car. If JV had been less stubborn, and had used D!ckhead's parts, I wonder if he would have been back with Frentzen each race.....

I don't think I am being misty eyed. By that I mean that I believe my faith in Micahel was always backed by substance, not what I hoped for or what could have been, but what actually happened. I'm not misty eyed about Michael's return either. It might be great, it might be just okay. Yes, I'm excited about it, but I think the two things are different.

You've framed this discussion in a very narrow way. You've wanted me to back up my opinion that JV would be good for a small, starter team but you've restricted what I could use as proof. To draw an anal-ogy, you've sent me on a job interview without my CV. Part of what makes JV's worth is his history. He's still fast (2nd at LeMans, anyone) and he has been one of a very few men that have stood on the top of the mountain called 'F1 Championship' and looked around. His viewpoint on racing, what it takes to win, and how to get there will always be backed by experience, not theory. That has value.

Ding him for being in slow cars all you like* (and he was, make no mistake about that), but he was always close to his teammates when he wasn't beating them. Some cars suit some drivers and some cars don't. As I said earlier, Fisichella beat Button in a Renault but Fish sucked in a KERS-heavy Ferrari while Button became champion. The car matters more than you're giving it credit for.

Most people looking at JV's race results over his career would conclude that he's above average. Considering the grid is full of average to below average drivers, I can't see why anyone would be opposed to something better than that joining the grid. I suppose it all boils down to the irrational bias Schumacher fans have for JV and vice versa.

As to Schumacher's return, he'll do well. He's stepping into a championship-winning team. I'd like to see him in a mismanaged team with an inept technical director and chassis designer. I suspect he'd look pretty damned lame.

*Excluding Renault..he was driving a car that was new and completely unfamiliar to him that had been designed around Alonso and Trulli's input throughout the better part of the season.

EDIT: And if all that hasn't been enough to read, check out the Wikipedia (my God, am I actually endorsing a Wikipedia article??) entry about JV. It's surprisingly accurate. Pay specific attention to the area where it summarizes his F1 career. Aside from Renault, he did well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Villeneuve

[DOF_power 0]

BAR's problem went deeper than anything a driver could solve. Despite that, he did rack up some pretty good drives while there. The BAR wasn't ever a good car until a proper chassis was constructed for it, but the team held together to eventually become Champions. I credit JV as being the early 'glue' that helped to hold the team together. In a past issue of F1 Racing, there was an interview with Pat Symonds and JV's race engineer at Renault and they both lauded JV's technical skill. I wonder how much of Renault's eventual winning of races and championships were due to something JV imparted to the team in this brief time there. Even Sauber benefited, if we think along those lines. One could argue that JV was so bad that every team he was in started winning after he left, but that argument can be turned around too, to JV's benefit.

Now most of that is speculation on my part, but the Symonds remarks are true. When Kubeetza was a test driver he claimed to have learned alot from JV (true as well). Not quick Nick, but JV. Kubeetza went on to become a stellar racing driver.

Was JV stubborn as Patrick D!ckhead has said? Considering that he was trying to foist inferior parts on JV, and JV refused...and eventually won the title....goes to prove that his stubborness was rooted in a technical affinity for his car. If JV had been less stubborn, and had used D!ckhead's parts, I wonder if he would have been back with Frentzen each race.....

You've framed this discussion in a very narrow way. You've wanted me to back up my opinion that JV would be good for a small, starter team but you've restricted what I could use as proof. To draw an anal-ogy, you've sent me on a job interview without my CV. Part of what makes JV's worth is his history. He's still fast (2nd at LeMans, anyone) and he has been one of a very few men that have stood on the top of the mountain called 'F1 Championship' and looked around. His viewpoint on racing, what it takes to win, and how to get there will always be backed by experience, not theory. That has value.

Ding him for being in slow cars all you like* (and he was, make no mistake about that), but he was always close to his teammates when he wasn't beating them. Some cars suit some drivers and some cars don't. As I said earlier, Fisichella beat Button in a Renault but Fish sucked in a KERS-heavy Ferrari while Button became champion. The car matters more than you're giving it credit for.

Most people looking at JV's race results over his career would conclude that he's above average. Considering the grid is full of average to below average drivers, I can't see why anyone would be opposed to something better than that joining the grid. I suppose it all boils down to the irrational bias Schumacher fans have for JV and vice versa.

As to Schumacher's return, he'll do well. He's stepping into a championship-winning team. I'd like to see him in a mismanaged team with an inept technical director and chassis designer. I suspect he'd look pretty damned lame.

*Excluding Renault..he was driving a car that was new and completely unfamiliar to him that had been designed around Alonso and Trulli's input throughout the better part of the season.

Ferrari in 96; but that's what was great about Schu, he always managed to surround himself with top people on witch he had a sixth sense, unlike JV who lacked such foresight and social skills.

[DOF_power 0]

So you're agreeing with me. Thanks. You forget to mention that Benetton had also caught up in '97; didn't they win a race?

Williams was still the top cars as they had the edge in pace over Ferrari and reliability over McLaren. JV's poor performance/crashes in wet weather vs. Schumacher's supreme reign (Spa) kept the championship opened.

Schumacher with that Williams would have won easily.

[Quiet One 15]

Williams was still the top cars as they had the edge in pace over Ferrari and reliability over McLaren. JV's poor performance/crashes in wet weather vs. Schumacher's supreme reign (Spa) kept the championship opened.

Schumacher with that Williams would have won easily.

Ah, a fellow admirer of those Williams

[Autumnpuma 0]

Ferrari in 96; but that's what was great about Schu, he always managed to surround himself with top people on witch he had a sixth sense, unlike JV who lacked such foresight and social skills.

Incorrect. His teams always liked him a great deal, but he often had problems with the bosses of those teams. He didn't want to be bogged down with sponsorship crap and some team bosses just didn't like his high salary.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Williams was still the top cars as they had the edge in pace over Ferrari and reliability over McLaren. JV's poor performance/crashes in wet weather vs. Schumacher's supreme reign (Spa) kept the championship opened.

Schumacher with that Williams would have won easily.

So, if a driver isn't as good as Mikey, he shouldn't be racing or he's somehow crap? You, also, set the bar too high.

[shampion 0]

Once again, MS fans use a forum to tout about his past and his inevitable soon to be announced (in their minds) "saint-hood"

Yes ... Michael's records, wins, "past" skills, and history speaks for itself.... but that does not mean JV was not a great driver at the time he won his WDC. In fact, I think the way JV raced against Michael (and did not back down)speaks volumes about his skills. Not too many drivers, past or present, would go head to head with a "superior" driver such as MS.

I've been a true F1 fan since the late 70's, have seen many great pilots come and go. Yet I find it very sad to see this "Mikey generation" of racing fans with such a narrow point of view.... but then again....Maybe I got them all wrong!

Seems to me, everytime Jacques is mentioned ... they all rise up to shoot down his fans and his accomplishments. I guess by their posts they actually are agreeing with the rest of us.... they actually do respect what Jacques did and think the kid from Quebec did a great job. He earned my respect, and I guess the respect of them as well.

[dribbler 6]

BAR's problem went deeper than anything a driver could solve. Despite that, he did rack up some pretty good drives while there. The BAR wasn't ever a good car until a proper chassis was constructed for it, but the team held together to eventually become Champions. I credit JV as being the early 'glue' that helped to hold the team together. In a past issue of F1 Racing, there was an interview with Pat Symonds and JV's race engineer at Renault and they both lauded JV's technical skill. I wonder how much of Renault's eventual winning of races and championships were due to something JV imparted to the team in this brief time there. Even Sauber benefited, if we think along those lines. One could argue that JV was so bad that every team he was in started winning after he left, but that argument can be turned around too, to JV's benefit.

Now most of that is speculation on my part, but the Symonds remarks are true. When Kubeetza was a test driver he claimed to have learned alot from JV (true as well). Not quick Nick, but JV. Kubeetza went on to become a stellar racing driver.

Was JV stubborn as Patrick D!ckhead has said? Considering that he was trying to foist inferior parts on JV, and JV refused...and eventually won the title....goes to prove that his stubborness was rooted in a technical affinity for his car. If JV had been less stubborn, and had used D!ckhead's parts, I wonder if he would have been back with Frentzen each race.....

You've framed this discussion in a very narrow way. You've wanted me to back up my opinion that JV would be good for a small, starter team but you've restricted what I could use as proof. To draw an anal-ogy, you've sent me on a job interview without my CV. Part of what makes JV's worth is his history. He's still fast (2nd at LeMans, anyone) and he has been one of a very few men that have stood on the top of the mountain called 'F1 Championship' and looked around. His viewpoint on racing, what it takes to win, and how to get there will always be backed by experience, not theory. That has value.

Ding him for being in slow cars all you like* (and he was, make no mistake about that), but he was always close to his teammates when he wasn't beating them. Some cars suit some drivers and some cars don't. As I said earlier, Fisichella beat Button in a Renault but Fish sucked in a KERS-heavy Ferrari while Button became champion. The car matters more than you're giving it credit for.

Most people looking at JV's race results over his career would conclude that he's above average. Considering the grid is full of average to below average drivers, I can't see why anyone would be opposed to something better than that joining the grid. I suppose it all boils down to the irrational bias Schumacher fans have for JV and vice versa.

As to Schumacher's return, he'll do well. He's stepping into a championship-winning team. I'd like to see him in a mismanaged team with an inept technical director and chassis designer. I suspect he'd look pretty damned lame.

*Excluding Renault..he was driving a car that was new and completely unfamiliar to him that had been designed around Alonso and Trulli's input throughout the better part of the season.

EDIT: And if all that hasn't been enough to read, check out the Wikipedia (my God, am I actually endorsing a Wikipedia article??) entry about JV. It's surprisingly accurate. Pay specific attention to the area where it summarizes his F1 career. Aside from Renault, he did well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Villeneuve

Once again Mike, analytical and a good effort, but I feel your argument is flawed for being based way too much opinion and not fact. But hey, most of what gets discuseed around these mirky shores fits under that umbrella. You credit Villeneuve for the glue at BAR? I would say that Ken Tyrell was probably stickier. Patrick D!ckhead? Shame. Head has my utmost respect, not only for the cars he's churned out and his straight forward approach, but for his loyalty and unequivocal passion to go motor racing. You claim he lumbered Villeneuve with shoddy parts that could have hindered him? For what purpose?

I don't feel that I have restricted you in anyway to what you can mention to back your argument that Villeneuve would be good for a new, small team. All I have said is that judging JV by his most current outing in an F1 car, I would not employ him myself and that's all. I have explained my reasons why; that fundamentally I do not believe he would be quick enough. Even if he was and is a worthwhile car developer, he still needs to deliver on sunday and that's worth more than any number of tenths he may be adding to the car itself. Once again you insinuate that my judgement is affected by the fact that I'm a Schumacher fan and that we somehow all hate Jacques as a result. I had rather hoped that you knew by now that I'm not only objective about Michael, but every driver. The playground stuff stays in the playground, for them. I want to go racing, that's what's in my heart. My heart tells me that the skill and passion that Jacques had, spurred by the reputation and memory and the maverick nature of his late, great father meant that he took on and beat Michael Schumacher (disregarding our personal beliefs on car superiority at any given period) and he'll always have my respect for that. But I believe he's a spent force; he's living a lie if he thinks he can come back and cut it. Let's be honest, why else comeback if you can't? The argument that you might be slower than others but know how to tell a dude with a spanner that you need more anti-roll bar is a little lame if you're not fast.

[DOF_power 0]

So, if a driver isn't as good as Mikey, he shouldn't be racing or he's somehow crap? You, also, set the bar too high.

A driver like JV should only win a WDC IMO if he drives something that's superior/revolutionary and relevant (like say a 1992 FW14B/1993 FW15C).

1997 didn't showcase anything more then a better tweaked/packaged irrelevant car with an inferior driver and racer, deciding the result; and one witch was nothing more then evolution of the 1995 FW17 car.

The Ferrari at least brought flexi-wings late in the season witch are found on the Ferrari 458 Italia.

Neither the best driver nor clever thinking won.

[DOF_power 0]

[quote name='Quiet One' date='06 March 2010 - 01:37 AM' timestamp='1267832240' post='311418']
Ah, a fellow admirer of those Williams
[/quote]



Actually of the Renault V10s, thus having to support Williams and then also Benetton.
I supported the Renault V10s against the Ferrari and Honda V12 and the Ford V8s.
But putting up with Prost, Senna and Schumacher was horrible. All of them dirty drivers.