Lotus V Team Lotus

[JHS 1]

Well, as far as I believe, Proton owns Lotus, the Lotus that makes road going cars. I don't believe Fernandes has had anything to do with that side of the organisation.

It's like if a new team sprang up and called themselves "Team Ferrari" or something. Which one is the real Ferrari? The one that makes the road cars IMO.

It would be ridiculous to expect them to dominate as 1Malayisa, I agree, but as Lotus Racing? That name carries such a heritage of success....like I remember people's reactions when it was announced they'd got a slot on the grid. People were saying stuff like "Oh, I just hope they don't tarnish the Lotus name". I think as well as it being daft for them to have the Lotus name, it added a lot of unnecessary pressure, some may have seen the name Lotus returning and thought that they'd be competitive. Obviously that wasn't the case.

I agree, things could have been made a lot easier if Group Lotus teamed up with 1Malaysia, but obviously they haven't wanted to for whatever reason and we've got to respect that. I personally think that now that is the case, Fernandes should have a go at building his own identity using the 1Malysia name or Air Asia GP or whatever. It doesn't take a genius to realise that having a Team Lotus and a Lotus-Renault on the grid is silly.

[Port-A-Loo 0]

Well, as far as I believe, Proton owns Lotus, the Lotus that makes road going cars. I don't believe Fernandes has had anything to do with that side of the organisation.

It's like if a new team sprang up and called themselves "Team Ferrari" or something. Which one is the real Ferrari? The one that makes the road cars IMO.

It would be ridiculous to expect them to dominate as 1Malayisa, I agree, but as Lotus Racing? That name carries such a heritage of success....like I remember people's reactions when it was announced they'd got a slot on the grid. People were saying stuff like "Oh, I just hope they don't tarnish the Lotus name". I think as well as it being daft for them to have the Lotus name, it added a lot of unnecessary pressure, some may have seen the name Lotus returning and thought that they'd be competitive. Obviously that wasn't the case.

I agree, things could have been made a lot easier if Group Lotus teamed up with 1Malaysia, but obviously they haven't wanted to for whatever reason and we've got to respect that. I personally think that now that is the case, Fernandes should have a go at building his own identity using the 1Malysia name or Air Asia GP or whatever. It doesn't take a genius to realise that having a Team Lotus and a Lotus-Renault on the grid is silly.

http://www.lotusraci...y/partners.aspx

You'll see Proton on that page. They're a partner.

Further reading:

Lotus Racing is operated by 1Malaysia Racing Team Sdn. Bhd., a privately-funded project jointly owned by Tune Group and Naza Group in partnership with the Malaysian Government and a consortium of Malaysian entrepreneurs^[7] Proton, the Malaysian car company which owns Lotus Cars has given permission for the team to use the Lotus brand. The Malaysian Government, has, however emphasized that the government itself is not going to invest in the team^[8] and that the Malaysian government’s investment is only through Proton.^[4]

Proton issues them a license to use the brand and the Malaysian government, through Proton, invested in the team.

The team announced the appointment of Riad Asmat as the Chief Executive Officer of 1Malaysia F1 Team Sdn. Bhd.^[1] Asmat was formerly working in the managing director's office of Proton Holdings Berhad as General Manager.

More Proton involvement.

However...

The team originally took a licence from Group Lotus (owner of Lotus Cars) that allowed them to use the Lotus name for the 2010 season.^[36] Group Lotus, with agreement from their parent company Proton, have now terminated the licence for future seasons as a result of what it called "flagrant and persistent breaches of the licence by the team".^[36]

On 24 September Tony Fernandes announced in a press release that his Tune Group had acquired Team Lotus Ventures Ltd, the company led by David Hunt since 1994 when Team Lotus had stopped competing in Formula One, and with it full ownership of the rights of the Team Lotus brand and heritage. The team confirmed that they would be known as Team Lotus from 2011 onwards.

Yet Proton still remain a partner. The terms of the license are the heart of the matter. Was there a performance clause or not?

Regardless, they retain the name by buying the other name. They don't have the right to call themselves "Lotus." They have the right to be "Team Lotus" now. "Team Lotus" was entirely separate from "Group Lotus," which, through Proton, was indirectly invested in, and had given permission to, "1Malaysia Racing" to re-brand as "Lotus Racing." When that was revoked, rightfully or wrongfully (I'm talking legally, not personal opinion), they bought "Team Lotus." Separate entity that Group Lotus has no control over.

All quotes from: http://en.wikipedia....ki/Lotus_Racing

It's all fair and well to say "the one that makes road cars" gets the name, but that's not what the legal documents say. There was a license, the license went away. So they got the same name from another entity. Whether they "deserve" it or not, they own the name Team Lotus.

(I've bolded the important parts of my post).

[KoolMonkey 0]

A very sloppy situation indeed. I hope Fernandes doesn't cave into Proton. It's going to be hard though due to his business links with Malaysia. If he was British, or from some other country there wouldn't be any arms to twist. But his airline and other business in Malaysia makes him an easy target for lunch money.

I'm really sad for David Hunt though. Being custodian of "Team Lotus" for so long, and not being willing to sell it to anyone unless they protect it. Imagine how he feels now after selling it to Fernandes. He should have licensed it for use only. Proton never had the balls to try and steal "Team Lotus" from David Hunt, but I think Fernandes is certainly not as steadfast in his commitment to the name. Yes it would be cool, blah blah blah, but he really doesn't have much if anything invested in this. There isn't a family legacy or history.

I fear Proton will win in this regard. They will force Fernandes to not use the name, he won't have a black & gold livery, and thus the name will die for now. If he's smart he should bide his time. Proton aren't going to be in F1 for a long time I feel. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't last 2-3 years. Then if Fernandes is still around, he can launch "Team Lotus" again and not be interred with.

[Port-A-Loo 0]

Well, if they lose their name, the following trademarks are all available to be bought:

Cheez Kisses

Handy Dan

London Britches

Big Yank

Lucky Whip

Beauty and the Bath

Short & Sassy

Hot Pants

Surely one of those has a similar legacy to Lotus?

(Alternative and improved response: they could just call themselves General Motors. They're oblivious to everything else happening in the world).

[Rainmaster 7]

I'm sure at least one of those is another of your other accounts Eric

[Quiet One 15]

I'm sure at least one of those is another of your other accounts Eric

And the remaining were reserved by Vettel to be used as his next cars' nicknames

[freaky2 1]

:lol:

[HandyNZL 1]

Looks like it's starting to get messy...Lopez (boss of Renault..er...Lotus Renault) is saying there will only be one Lotus team out there...whilst Fernandes (boss of Lotus....er... Team Lotus Renault) is saying he ain't backing down over the name.

Ding-ding....let the fight begin.

This story will no doubt be the talking point of the off season.

[JHS 1]

Well, I personally think everyone in the F1 paddock needs to be congratulated. It's taken this long till a big argument has broken out, surely a record?

[HandyNZL 1]

Seems the Chapman's have come out in support of Proton in this little saga. Say that the team formerly known as Renault are the real Lotus......

This is just getting more surreal by the week...

[allrob 0]

LOTUS WITHOUT CC WILL BE NEVER AGAIN LOTUS AND THIS IS NOT DB OR TF WHICH WILL BE ABLE TO CHANGE THIS SITUATION

[JHS 1]

LOTUS WITHOUT CC WILL BE NEVER AGAIN LOTUS AND THIS IS NOT DB OR TF WHICH WILL BE ABLE TO CHANGE THIS SITUATION

WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

And get real. Yeah, Colin Chapman was great, I wasn't born when he was running Lotus, but like other figures within motorsport, I still hold admiration for the guy. But he's dead and has been for some time now. You can't say neither deserve to be Lotus because neither have Chapman as a boss, that's just stupid. Time moves on.

[HandyNZL 1]

WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

And get real. Yeah, Colin Chapman was great, I wasn't born when he was running Lotus, but like other figures within motorsport, I still hold admiration for the guy. But he's dead and has been for some time now. You can't say neither deserve to be Lotus because neither have Chapman as a boss, that's just stupid. Time moves on.

I DON'T KNOW WHY S/HE IS SHOUTING, BUT I CAN SHOUT LOUDEST!

[monza gorilla 1]

The Chapman family have now switched sides and are supporting Danny Baharhar & Proton/Group Lotus/Renault. Pretty abrupt. Guess they know which side their bread is buttered.

[JHS 1]

I DON'T KNOW WHY S/HE IS SHOUTING, BUT I CAN SHOUT LOUDEST!

OH REALLY?!

The Chapman family have now switched sides and are supporting Danny Baharhar & Proton/Group Lotus/Renault. Pretty abrupt. Guess they know which side their bread is buttered.

I can't blame them personally...

[HandyNZL 1]

The Chapman family have now switched sides and are supporting Danny Baharhar & Proton/Group Lotus/Renault. Pretty abrupt. Guess they know which side their bread is buttered.

Thats yesterdays news old boy....keep up.

Today's news is all about shouting!

[JHS 1]

Thats yesterdays news old boy....keep up.

Today's news is all about shouting!

WHAT HE SAID - ONLY LOUDER!

[HandyNZL 1]

Toleman became Benetton became Renault became Lotus

Lotus became Team Lotus

1Malaysia never was but was Lotus Racing who want to be Team Lotus

Not sure really if either team deserves the Lotus moniker....

[Insider 0]

It's quite simple really: either is neither. When Colin died, Team Lotus died with him. Get over it - it can't be cloned or morphed, period. I don't care how loud you shout.

[Port-A-Loo 0]

Not sure really if either team deserves the Lotus moniker....

Well, if Tony Fernandes loses the name, neither will have it. Between reckless motorsport expansion and Bob Lutz, Lotus-Renault will be something entirely new by 2014 at the latest.

[Autumnpuma 0]

The Chapman family have now switched sides and are supporting Danny Baharhar & Proton/Group Lotus/Renault. Pretty abrupt. Guess they know which side their bread is buttered.

Hm. To quote Yoda, "Hard to see, the lotus is". My support goes to Fernandes. His little team is the only Lotus team out there. The other is just a re-colored Toleman.

[monza gorilla 1]

Agreed. It's all Anthony's fault when it comes down to it.

[JHS 1]

Anymore on the news that Fernandes is changing his team name to something like Air Asia GP or 1Malaysia GP?

[monza gorilla 1]

No. I think he's proved his point, though.

[Quiet One 15]

None of them is Lotus. Lotus is dead so who gives a Sh#t?

It's all marketing. Why would I care? Oh, right, because of the Black/gold coloured Renault (and they aren't Renault, either)

So, Lotus Renault it is. Die, Fernandes.