Lotus V Team Lotus

[monza gorilla 1]

Shiny colors... funny bunch.

The important news here that Renault is basically out.

Yes. Yes. And thrice yes.

You said that better than I would have.

[HandyNZL 1]

So a quick wrap up...

Red Bull Racing Renault

Team Lotus Renault

Lotus Renault

Renault have 25% of the grid covered...they will be busy beavers....though TWO teams with black and gold stripes will really confuse Leggard...possibly make his head explode....sounds like a good plan...

[JHS 1]

I can just imagine now, say if Kubica's in the lead and one of the 1Malaysia cars inevitably breaks down.

"Oh, and what's this Martin? Is this a problem for Kubica? It is! Kubica is stopping! Ooof, that's not what they wanted! He can't believe it."

"Err, that's Trulli actually...."

"But never mind this, what about Jarno Trulli? Extraordinary! Ted, what news?"

Mercedes have themselves, McLaren and Force India though. Ferrari have themselves, Sauber and Toro Rosso. Cosworth has Williams, Virgin and HRT (if they make it). So I wouldn't say any one engine manufacturer is dominating in terms of numbers.

[Kopite Girl 0]

Painted myself black and changed my name to Stevee Hendrix. I aint got no soul and I still play sh!t.

Me and my mum laughed our tits off at this. Thanks!

[HandyNZL 1]

Me and my mum laughed our tits off at this. Thanks!

That's just a very wrong image to have at this time of night....

[HandyNZL 1]

I like the livery, especially in the face of 1Malaysia saying their car would be black and gold. Since Lotus Cars use the green and yellow in their IndyCar team, I imagine they had intended to do that in F1, but only made it black/gold to **** 1Malaysia off. Then again, I may just be giving them too much credit.

To be honest, we'll have two Loti for a while, and then none in a short period. 1Malaysia will give in and Lotus Cars will realize pretty quickly that their foreign investments don't exist and trying to do F1, IndyCar (as a major supplier of aerokits and a badger of engines), Le Mans, GT, and junior formula was an awful idea. Hate to be cynical but there's no way they have any money to be doing this when they sell, what, 2000 units per year? It seems shady to me. Next thing you'll know George Gillett and a Nigerian prince with a Yahoo freemail account will own the team.

See any Russian sponsors on the car? Vitaly?

But there is a Union Jack....thats new.

Though Mr Poo for Portage, Lotus the "brand" sells 2000 odd cars (and not cheap neither), but Lotus is owned by Proton, who sell lots of cars... It's a long and windy financial road.

The thing is, Colin Chapman split Lotus into the road car division (the profits from which paid for the race team) and the race team (win on Sunday, sell on Monday...from Lotus Cars)...Proton has the road car division, Fernandes the rights to Team Lotus....they ARE two separate entities, and it was always thus.

This is all rather quirky, and I think it totally possible we'll see Lotus Renault (two road car manufacturers) on the grid against Team Lotus (a race car team that also shares a name with a flower). Then in 2012, Lotus Renault will morph into something else once Lotus/Proton decide it's all to expensive...whereas Fernandes will still be there, because he wants to race like Frank Williams.

But that's just my two cents.

BTW...how many ply paper do you supply in your loo?

[monza gorilla 1]

BTW...how many ply paper do you supply in your loo?

1200 grit wet & dry, at a guess. Or Izal.

[maure 1]

Still no word on Renault's demise. Pity. That was the team that, among other things, put an end to the Ferrari/Schumacher era. Interesting on its own. There is a lot more to say but I reckon it will trouble some of the locals. Pity.

[Quiet One 15]

Granted, Lotus is no "Lotus", Renault is not "Renault" and no more John Player Special, plus it still looks like a 2007 spec rear wing to me.

But just for the thrill of watching a Renault painted like a JPS Lotus I will let them fool me into this.

Go Renault!!!

(PS: Gerard Lopez and Eric Boullier have earned my respect, despite my initial despise for them)

[yurp 0]

X isn't Alonso.

Flav will most likely not sue. He will not start another series either. He will be invited back to a few GP and mix with the paddock folk after that part of his ban is recinded under the next head of FIA circa 2012.

When Symond's ban is over (earlier than the expected 5 years) he will make it back into F1 with Renault's blessing and perhaps assistance but in a token role - something to do with press management perhaps.

Renault will stay in F1 for one more year but will become an engine supplier only in 2011. Their line up will perhaps be Grosjean and Kovi OR a current Toyota driver.

Alonso will go to Ferrari for 2010 UNLESS Kimi ends 4th this year (he's 11.5 points off Webber) - he will beat Massa but they will stay as the Ferrari pair for 2011 too - unless Massa has lost the racing spirit and ends more than 30 points behind Alonso OR Massa never makes it back (I can't predict health).

Jnr will never race in F1 again.

Max will be a regular face around the paddock after he leaves, but never a particularly welcome one. After a while he'll dissappear from everywhere apart from in the press - will probably have his own column.

KERS will survive in 2010 and then further.

Ecclestone will too.

[Argento Reloaded 1]

Both teams will share renault engines and pirelli tyres... so the one with more points at the end of the season will deserve the name Lotus. Fair. So Fernandes stop talking and go to work!

[JHS 1]

Whilst we're on the topic of nice looking liveries, I think we should start a petition to get Toro Rosso to run in this livery for next year:

[Delta 0]

Whilst we're on the topic of nice looking liveries, I think we should start a petition to get Toro Rosso to run in this livery for next year:

I'd sign, that looks awesome

[HandyNZL 1]

Thats the sugar free Bull....it's for diabetics...

[HandyNZL 1]

Granted, Lotus is no "Lotus", Renault is not "Renault" and no more John Player Special, plus it still looks like a 2007 spec rear wing to me.

But just for the thrill of watching a Renault painted like a JPS Lotus I will let them fool me into this.

Go Renault!!!

(PS: Gerard Lopez and Eric Boullier have earned my respect, despite my initial despise for them)

I believe you'll find its a 2008 spec rear wing....

[JHS 1]

Thats the sugar free Bull....it's for diabetics...

Well, Toro Rosso effectively is a sugar free Red Bull.

[mikathegreat2 2]

So we gots, Lotus Renault & Team Lotus for next year! That'll mean 2 Lotus-Renault's next year! As for the livery, nice apast from the red Total logos!

[Port-A-Loo 0]

They're both running black and gold liveries next year, too. It's a shame no one gets creative and runs a nice white and red anymore.

[Rainmaster 7]

Team Lotus (Fernandes) have backed down from the black & gold livery now. Sensible. Interview with him on Autosport, much of which I agree with: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88663

[JHS 1]

All that's left is for him to drop the Lotus name and create his own team's identity....

[Rainmaster 7]

Do you extend the same criticism to Lotus-Renault?

Neither Lotus team is going to have completely their own identity because they are both using a historical brand which may legally belong to one of them, but isn't really theirs at all (in the sense they, or nobody involved with them created the brand or was involved in the original team, afaik). Yet Fernandes came up with the idea of using the Lotus branding first, and did it in a respectful way never making any false claims, and without any complaints from Lotus Cars. His team also did the best out of the new teams, not just in terms of results but in terms of having decent drivers, having a good financial strategy and plan for development, etc. I respect them more for that than I can respect Lotus Cars piggy-backing on their hard work and jumping in with an existing team.

[JHS 1]

One is much more near the real thing though. At least one has the proper logo.

As I've said previously, I do have respect for what Fernandes has done. But I just found it such a shame to see 1Malaysia using such an evocative name yet failing to really score any points. It's hard to explain how I feel, I just find it a bit of a joke what 1Malaysia are doing. I mean it's terrible that the proper Lotus wants to rescue their brand isn't it?! As 1Malaysia, Fernandes' team did a great job in 2010. As Lotus Racing, not so much. That name carries such pressure with them, and to be touring around the back of the grid as somebody they aren't is just a bit silly really.

I wouldn't have any problem if they used a different name. In my view, Proton are entitled to call themselves Lotus because it is legally their's. Fernandes, who didn't really have anything to do with Lotus till he entered F1 doesn't.

I don't understand why Lotus-Renault is getting slated so much for wanting to defend their brand. The thing about "jumping in with an existing team" is a stupid comment to make. Do you feel the same way as to how Mercedes bought Brawn, or how Red Bull bought Jaguar for example?

Anyway, it's just my opinion. I like 1Malaysia and Lotus-Renault, but I don't like copycats Team Lotus. As I've said, they should establish themselves using their own name, and not somebody else's. I'd feel exactly the same way if for example a Japanese team entered and called themselves "Honda" or "Toyota", when they aren't.

[Port-A-Loo 0]

Proton/Lotus did own part of Lotus Racing last season, though. And Proton is 42% owned by the Malaysian government, which also owns part of what is now Team Lotus, so it's a bit sloppier than it seems.

Look at it this way:

HRT enter. They have no "brand." There's no market value in being behind HRT. Last I checked, "Bruno," "Karun," "Christian," and "Sakon" weren't title sponsors (though they were the four main backers the team had).

Virgin, however, have a brand. Through Virgin's various connections in the business world, they were able to forge partnerships that extended to F1 as well (CSC being one example of which I'm sure you're aware).

So, you're 1Malaysia. Do you lure partners like CNN to your team if you're 1Malaysia? Probably not. When you're Lotus, when you have that livery and that name, you do. Whether it's "fair" or "shady" or any other number of adjectives, they had the rights to the name and they would have been silly not to use it just because they weren't competitive. It's not the first time a Lotus ran at the back of the field.

[HandyNZL 1]

And anyone thinking a new team would score points in the first year is very naive.

[Rainmaster 7]

One is much more near the real thing though. At least one has the proper logo.

As I've said previously, I do have respect for what Fernandes has done. But I just found it such a shame to see 1Malaysia using such an evocative name yet failing to really score any points. It's hard to explain how I feel, I just find it a bit of a joke what 1Malaysia are doing. I mean it's terrible that the proper Lotus wants to rescue their brand isn't it?! As 1Malaysia, Fernandes' team did a great job in 2010. As Lotus Racing, not so much. That name carries such pressure with them, and to be touring around the back of the grid as somebody they aren't is just a bit silly really.

I wouldn't have any problem if they used a different name. In my view, Proton are entitled to call themselves Lotus because it is legally their's. Fernandes, who didn't really have anything to do with Lotus till he entered F1 doesn't.

I don't understand why Lotus-Renault is getting slated so much for wanting to defend their brand. The thing about "jumping in with an existing team" is a stupid comment to make. Do you feel the same way as to how Mercedes bought Brawn, or how Red Bull bought Jaguar for example?

Anyway, it's just my opinion. I like 1Malaysia and Lotus-Renault, but I don't like copycats Team Lotus. As I've said, they should establish themselves using their own name, and not somebody else's. I'd feel exactly the same way if for example a Japanese team entered and called themselves "Honda" or "Toyota", when they aren't.

Is it legally theirs though? That's under dispute so you can't say it is. As mentioned before the race team and the engineering side were split very early into the Lotus operation, so we'll have to wait for the court decision on that one unless it's resolved by the parties themselves.

As for performance, it's all relative: you have to compare Team Lotus' results with the results of the other new teams (something which Lotus Cars also failed to do). Expecting them to dominate immediately like Chapman's cars did at the height of their brilliance is ridiculous (and they didn't always dominate either).

It isn't a stupid comment, you just misunderstood it, and even if it was stupid there would be no need to describe it like that. It's a completely different situation to Mercedes buying Brawn etc and I never said that that was the issue. I was making a comparison between what Team Lotus have done (creating their own team) and what Group Lotus are doing (deciding to get involved with Renault after letting Team Lotus test the water). The comparison is that the former is much more respectable (and much more in the spirit of Chapman and the original Lotus, by the way), although the latter may show good business sense.

So I respect that they want to defend 'their' brand but it would've been better if they'd made that decision earlier instead of treading on the toes of Team Lotus now; or they could have partnered with Team Lotus themselves.