Ferrari Flexing Fluffy Flu Flu

[Max Mosley 2]

I think it comes down to what provides the best motor-racing entertainment. Three possibilities suggest themselves.

If Ferrari leave and just stop racing cars altogether then of course F1 will still be massively popular - barely less so than now. But this is highly unlikely to happen, surely.

If Ferrari leave and set up a rival series with other teams and manufacturers then I'd say it depends primarily on which is the most entertaining to the fans. Imho if Ferrari leave, set up a "traditional F1" with tons of aero, innovation and no passing then I don't think Bernie will be too worried. Ferrari or no Ferrari, innovation or no innovation, the fans will go where the racing is best. The second most important thing would be the quality of drivers, so if one series managed to tempt the best ones to join en masse, that would be quite a coup. That last bit is of course why no one cares about "lesser" series with good racing. But the series that has the best racing and the best drivers will win out - and probably kill the other off. Jean and Bernie would have more influence in F1 if Ferrari left and they could push through more measures designed to improve the racing as we've seen this year. That would be stiff competition for Ferrari's series.

[Rainmaster 7]

That's a weird number. I think it's the total number of unique individuals that watched during the entire season. Each race gets about 75 million - 85 million viewers worldwide. Networks will look more at that number because it's less of an estimate than the FOM number, which seems like a load of bull crap usually.

(I don't care to legitimately respond to anyone's post. I think it's all pointless and the teams can all get bent, and only I can ever be right about what F1 should be/do).

Yeah, I haven't researched it but that's what I was thinking of, the annual total figures. The point is that, regardless of exact figures, F1 is a strong global marketing platform. Even if it was half as strong in terms of viewers, it would still be a strong platform (and I doubt Ferrari is worth anything like that much).

I think it comes down to what provides the best motor-racing entertainment. Three possibilities suggest themselves.

If Ferrari leave and just stop racing cars altogether then of course F1 will still be massively popular - barely less so than now. But this is highly unlikely to happen, surely.

If Ferrari leave and set up a rival series with other teams and manufacturers then I'd say it depends primarily on which is the most entertaining to the fans. Imho if Ferrari leave, set up a "traditional F1" with tons of aero, innovation and no passing then I don't think Bernie will be too worried. Ferrari or no Ferrari, innovation or no innovation, the fans will go where the racing is best. The second most important thing would be the quality of drivers, so if one series managed to tempt the best ones to join en masse, that would be quite a coup. That last bit is of course why no one cares about "lesser" series with good racing. But the series that has the best racing and the best drivers will win out - and probably kill the other off. Jean and Bernie would have more influence in F1 if Ferrari left and they could push through more measures designed to improve the racing as we've seen this year. That would be stiff competition for Ferrari's series.

I agree (or to modify it: if Ferrari stopped racing in F1 but kept racing programmes elsewhere, but not some new series, I don't think the impact on F1 would be too terrible. At worst, some lost money from broadcasters etc due to lost viewers/prestige).

[Max Mosley 2]

Yeah I think so too. If it comes down to a commercial contest between (1) what we're getting this year minus Ferrari (3rd best team); and (2) F1 2010-style, I think we all know which series the fans will prefer!

[yurp 0]

So essentially Ferrari's threat to leave won't frighten anyone, but if they (and some FOTA buddies) threaten a breakaway series again, then they might get half of what they want from Bernie.

Why half?

Because Bernie will always know that to set up a competitive series with enough good teams with enough good circuits and enough good sponsorship is going to be a long hard haul and probably wouldn't hurt F1 too much unless done extremely well and quickly.

LDM needs FOTA to stick together as they did before when threatening a breakaway - let's see what the other teams say come concorde time. Ferrari on their own couldn't even begin to think of setting up a rival series.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

LDM needs FOTA to stick together as they did before when threatening a breakaway - let's see what the other teams say come concorde time. Ferrari on their own couldn't even begin to think of setting up a rival series.

Agree.

I think the other thing to say is that I am aware of my old fartdom (forgetting the cucumbers for a moment) and can wear my rose tinted specs about how wonderful Ferrari is - don't get me wrong, I appreciate what they have done over the years.

But I then think of an eighteen year old (not like that! ) new viewer to F1 - i.e. the new and up and coming F1 viewers. (Apart from maybe an Italian teenager) do you think they will hold Ferrari in such reverence? I'm not so sure.

They're more likely to be wowed by Red Bull (a brand they can relate to and who are very active across lots of sports aimed at younger audience) or figures like Lewis (potential role model). Potentially even more likely to support Mercedes (as it is a more real aspirational brand than Ferrari) and Renault (as they appear fast and their dad has one....)

The other thing I do is look at Williams - in the Mansell, Piquet, Prost, Hill era they could claim just as rich a heritage (ok not for as long as Ferrari, but for a time as winningest). Now where are they?

If there's one thing I have learned from F1 is that teams come and go - Renault, BMW, Lotus, Williams, Tyrell... the list goes on. What makes Ferrari unique is they have hung in there. Which also make me think they are less likely to leave.

Don't blame LDM for trying to get more money out of the poisoned dwarf, but I think LDM knows they need F1 so don't think it is all over.....

[HandyNZL 1]

From a marketing point of view, Ferrari's involvement brings the necessary kudos required to sell the sport to tv companies worldwide. You may think that F1 would continue to be a 'must have' sport for the networks if Ferrari left but you would be wrong. Every red-blooded male on the planet wants to own a Ferrari. It's a d#ck extension unrivalled by it's peers. The media care little about motor racing per se, it's the association with such a unique brand that brings the gelt into Bernie's coffers. Without Schumi the brand may have faded away but it's here to stay and whether you like it or not, Ferrari is the life source of F1 and always will be.

OUCH!!! That knife blimin well hurt...but all in a good cause....my blood is...er.....red....and I don't like Ferrari cars one bit. They are ick to me. Piles of red poop

I think you've been involved so long in F1 now, even you believe their own hype :P

And my d#ck is unrivaled too. Just incase you wanted to know.

Would I care if Ferrari didn't turn up to race tomorrow? Not a jot. And I doubt I'd be the only one.

I used to love CART. The media loved CART. There was no Ferrari there.....I don't think the addition of Ferrari makes a particular formula of motorsport good or bad....Ferrari just want us to believe that if they are not there, then that formula is not worth your while. Me doth think you have fallen for their evil plan.....

[HandyNZL 1]

Agree.

I think the other thing to say is that I am aware of my old fartdom (forgetting the cucumbers for a moment) and can wear my rose tinted specs about how wonderful Ferrari is - don't get me wrong, I appreciate what they have done over the years.

But I then think of an eighteen year old (not like that! ) new viewer to F1 - i.e. the new and up and coming F1 viewers. (Apart from maybe an Italian teenager) do you think they will hold Ferrari in such reverence? I'm not so sure.

They're more likely to be wowed by Red Bull (a brand they can relate to and who are very active across lots of sports aimed at younger audience) or figures like Lewis (potential role model). Potentially even more likely to support Mercedes (as it is a more real aspirational brand than Ferrari) and Renault (as they appear fast and their dad has one....)

The other thing I do is look at Williams - in the Mansell, Piquet, Prost, Hill era they could claim just as rich a heritage (ok not for as long as Ferrari, but for a time as winningest). Now where are they?

If there's one thing I have learned from F1 is that teams come and go - Renault, BMW, Lotus, Williams, Tyrell... the list goes on. What makes Ferrari unique is they have hung in there. Which also make me think they are less likely to leave.

Don't blame LDM for trying to get more money out of the poisoned dwarf, but I think LDM knows they need F1 so don't think it is all over.....

Good point and I agree with you (which must mean you are a girl). Ferrari became irrelevant since the 2008 spec rear wing. Over.

[HandyNZL 1]

Yeah I think so too. If it comes down to a commercial contest between (1) what we're getting this year minus Ferrari (3rd best team); and (2) F1 2010-style, I think we all know which series the fans will prefer!

Ummmm I like the first option....is that OK? I mean, because the racing is better this year....doesn't really matter if it's a battle between a Macca and an RBR, or between Ferrari and Force India...just so long as there is action on the track

[freaky2 1]

Agree.

I think the other thing to say is that I am aware of my old fartdom (forgetting the cucumbers for a moment) and can wear my rose tinted specs about how wonderful Ferrari is - don't get me wrong, I appreciate what they have done over the years.

But I then think of an eighteen year old (not like that! ) new viewer to F1 - i.e. the new and up and coming F1 viewers. (Apart from maybe an Italian teenager) do you think they will hold Ferrari in such reverence? I'm not so sure.

They're more likely to be wowed by Red Bull (a brand they can relate to and who are very active across lots of sports aimed at younger audience) or figures like Lewis (potential role model). Potentially even more likely to support Mercedes (as it is a more real aspirational brand than Ferrari) and Renault (as they appear fast and their dad has one....)

The other thing I do is look at Williams - in the Mansell, Piquet, Prost, Hill era they could claim just as rich a heritage (ok not for as long as Ferrari, but for a time as winningest). Now where are they?

If there's one thing I have learned from F1 is that teams come and go - Renault, BMW, Lotus, Williams, Tyrell... the list goes on. What makes Ferrari unique is they have hung in there. Which also make me think they are less likely to leave.

Don't blame LDM for trying to get more money out of the poisoned dwarf, but I think LDM knows they need F1 so don't think it is all over.....

I agree completely, even though I'm no longer 18 xD

What we see from the teams, from the "not so involved" fan perspective shows us Ferrari lost at sea. And think about all the great, or hailed as great drivers that go there. If the Ferrari is a dog all their fans start complaining. Why do they go there if the team is going worse and worse? Good luck fixing it xD (Just saying that I don't think Alonso can do it, and Kimi certainly couldn't...)

Go Team Poochie!

Over.

[HandyNZL 1]

Pre the Four Horsemen (Schumacher, Brawn, Byrne and Todt), Ferrari was all at sea. Post the Four Horsemen, Ferrari is setting sail for the high seas again, but with a bit of the air of 2000-2006 still about them.

Is that it in a nutshell?

[yurp 0]

Go Team Poochie!

Over.

And the agreement comes full circle

I feel dirty.

...and Gradsmall Handyflapper's agreement is making the floor slippy - I almost fell...

over.

[freaky2 1]

LOL

Yeah, Craig, that's it. I've never been good at summing up

[Kopite Girl 0]

If you ask ANY non-f1 fan, somebody that's not watched the sport or somebody that hates motor racing to name them one thing about Formula One, guaranteed 95% of those people would say Ferrari. The other 5% would most likely say Michael Schumacher.

This is the team that has introduced a lot of new fans into the sport. This is a team with a pedigree of more than 60 years in racing. Would the tifosi drop out of watching F1 and follow their team? Yes, more than likely. Would people say that the sport is less competitive without Ferrari? More than likely, but you could say that's follow-the-crowd smallmindedness. Would ratings drop? Quite likely. How long for? A couple of years until more fans start following F1. It's a difficult one to judge. Of course, there are millions of petrolheads who won't stop watching. How can we tell what will happen? We can only presume and predict. However, I can't see Ferrari ever leaving. It's too much of a gamble.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

But I then think of an eighteen year old (not like that! ) new viewer to F1 - i.e. the new and up and coming F1 viewers. (Apart from maybe an Italian teenager) do you think they will hold Ferrari in such reverence? I'm not so sure.

Actually after writing this I realised the flaw in my argument.

Eighteen year olds are too busy consuming vodka with their Red Bulls, downloading videos illegally and watching online porn to have spare time for F1.

So F1 may need to reinvent itself to attract and retain them:

• Get Smirnoff to sponsor F1
• Stick downloadable races on Pirate Bay
• Hire Danica Patrick and introduce mandatory overall changes in the pit lane several times a race

Hell, let's skip the first two and just go for the third *

* Recognising that teenaged females may also wished to have eye candy, we may need to work Justin Bieber into the equation (sadly) - suggestions on a postcard please.....

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

However, I can't see Ferrari ever leaving. It's too much of a gamble.

For them, yes. For Formula one, nope.

F1 is a primary marketing activity for Ferrari. What do they use if they don't have it? No-one is going to watch a new series with just them and a few no name teams in it. They tried to get more involved in A1GP and where has that gone?!

The only way Ferrari could leave and start an alternate series would be if they and others followed (like McLaren, Red Bull). This is a well-trodden path and *extraordinarily* difficult to pull off (and who would fund it?)

So its only sabre rattling (and Bernie and LDM both know it).

[HandyNZL 1]

Well they race at Le Man and other prototype races...

I do believe that they tell their drivers to study the rear diffusers on Audi's and Peugeot's though...I mean, why else are they out there racing....

[cavallino 2]

From a marketing point of view, Ferrari's involvement brings the necessary kudos required to sell the sport to tv companies worldwide. You may think that F1 would continue to be a 'must have' sport for the networks if Ferrari left but you would be wrong. Every red-blooded male on the planet wants to own a Ferrari. It's a d#ck extension unrivalled by it's peers. The media care little about motor racing per se, it's the association with such a unique brand that brings the gelt into Bernie's coffers. Without Schumi the brand may have faded away but it's here to stay and whether you like it or not, Ferrari is the life source of F1 and always will be.

Precisely, well said. Ferrari are the only team that could pull out tomorrow, set up a new series 'Grand Prix World Racing' or something and make it viable and bleed money out of F1. Their image is unrivalled, especially in emerging markets. And they are the grand inextricably linked to F1, the only other that comes close is Mclaren with the decline of Williams. Williams could pull out tomorrow and beyond some nostalgia we wouldn't care for too long, noone spends much time talking about Williams these days anyway.

[Rainmaster 7]

Drivers and teams always come and go and the sport has always survived. Ferrari is a more traditional, prestigious and strong brand than any other in F1, but that doesn't mean the sport couldn't survive without them. All this argument boils down to is a more complex version of a common mistake, that is to think that something that has never happened must never happen, and if it did happen, that it would change everything.

Why is it that we don't consider the reason that Ferrari never left F1? Even in all of those dry years of not winning all that much (what was it, 20 years)? Is it so ridiculous to consider that perhaps Ferrari's marketing strategy and brand identity is reliant on being in F1? Also worth thinking about is whether having Ferrari is actually necessary for F1's brand identity? Which is more fundamental, F1 to Ferrari or Ferrari to F1?

Bearing that in mind I really think Ferrari leaving (on their own) would be more detrimental to them than F1.

[yurp 0]

Bearing that in mind I really think Ferrari leaving (on their own) would be more detrimental to them than F1.

Exactly - I'll say it again - it all depends on what the other top FOTA teams do come concorde time.

[Delta 0]

As long as the racing and technical quality of the cars was the same, I think Formula 1 could manage without Ferrari in it. I certainly wouldn't stop watching it just because they left. Ferrari's arrogance is detrimental to the sport, they should just shut up with the legal penis waving and put their cars on the track like every other team. If you don't like the terms on the table, re-negotiate in private or leave. From what I can gather, apart from McLaren most of the other Formula 1 teams operate at a loss, and Ferrari are just trying to tip things in their favour again after realising the current FIA leadership doesn't have the same cosy love in they got under Mosley.

[Kopite Girl 0]

For them, yes. For Formula one, nope.

F1 is a primary marketing activity for Ferrari. What do they use if they don't have it? No-one is going to watch a new series with just them and a few no name teams in it. They tried to get more involved in A1GP and where has that gone?!

The only way Ferrari could leave and start an alternate series would be if they and others followed (like McLaren, Red Bull). This is a well-trodden path and *extraordinarily* difficult to pull off (and who would fund it?)

So its only sabre rattling (and Bernie and LDM both know it).

Like I said, Chris. Ask any non F1 fan who hardly knows anything about the sport to name one thing they associate with Formula One, the answer would be Ferrari or Michael Schumacher. So, indirectly Ferrari also advertises F1.

[Max Mosley 2]

Yeah, I hardly know anything about the sport so you can ask me, Chris.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

Yeah, I hardly know anything about the sport so you can ask me, Chris.

I knew it.

OK, name one thing you associate with Formula One...

....that does not rhyme with Berrari...

[Kopite Girl 0]

Yeah, I hardly know anything about the sport so you can ask me, Chris.

Ah shut it you :P

That Chris, he's a 20-18-1-14-14-25.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

That Chris, he's a 20-18-1-14-14-25.

A 20-18-1-14-14-25 ?

You mean one of these? http://bit.ly/BMdUc