2012

[Insider 0]

Well, no one team is too worried about car-related changes next year but what about the teams themselves and their drivers?

Renault, Williams, HRT are in varying degrees financial bother and their continued involvement must be in some doubt.

Will Lotus finally take a giant step forward? Surely, their continued survival depends on it. They need a better foil for Kovi than Trulli now, don't they?

STR is in limbo, isn't it? They impress mightily here and there but seem miles away from the top step. Will Buemi move up or just move along? Will Jaime stop breaking cars?

Di Resta, Kobi, Perez, Senna and Hulkenberg have shown great promise and it is heartening to see so much talent in the lower echelons of the grid. Where will they go though? How will they progress? Is there enough competitive seats?

The older drivers seem to be getting better with every race - Alonso, Button, Webber. Will Hamilton and Vettel be in their thirties before Perez or the Hulk slide into a great car?

Personally, I fell Bernie's main job is to coax the likes of Hyundai and VW into to the sport. What the hell do HRT and Virgin really bring to the formulae? Zero - in my book. The leading Japanese car makers are on the verge of bankruptcy right now but I believe that if Toyota and Honda had remained involved in F1 their positions may have been stronger.

Do we need a Dave Richards and/or a Flavio Briatore to come in and make Renault and STR the super-competitive teams they should be? Are these über-efficient, corporate-type TPs exactly what the sport needs?

One thing is for sure. F1 racing has rarely been as exciting as it is now - not for a decade or two, at least but aren't we in danger of seeing the same teams dominating the sport, season after season. Where is the next Red Bull coming from? Even the might of Mercedes and the mega brain wattage and intellect of Brawn and Schumacher cannot halt the rise of the energy drink maker from Salzburg. Make you wonder, doesn't it?

EDIT: Typos

[Insider 0]

Well, no one team is too worried about car-related changes next year but what about the teams themselves and their drivers?

Renault, Williams, HRT are in varying degrees financial bother and their continued involvement must be in some doubt.

Will Lotus finally take a giant step forward? Surely, their continued survival depends on it. They need a better foil for Kovi than Trulli now, don't they?

STR is in limbo, isn't it? They impress mightily here and there but seem miles away from the top step. Will Buemi move up or just move along? Will Jaime stop breaking cars?

Di Resta, Kobi, Perez, Senna and Hulkenberg have shown great promise and it is heartening to see so much talent in the lower echelons of the grid. Where will they go though? How will they progress? Is there enough competitive seats?

The older drivers seem to be getting better with every race - Alonso, Button, Webber. Will Hamilton and Vettel be in their thirties before Perez or the Hulk slide into a great car?

Personally, I fell Bernie's main job is to coax the likes of Hyundai and VW into the sport. What the hell do HRT and Virgin really bring to the formulae? Zero - in my book. The leading Japanese car makers are on the verge of bankruptcy right now but I believe that if Toyota and Honda had remained involved in F1 their positions may have been stronger.

Do we need a Dave Richards and/or a Flavio Briatore to come in and make Renault and STR the super-competitive teams they should be? Are übermensch, corporate-type TPs like Whitmarsh, Boullier and Horner exactly what the sport needs?

One thing is for sure. F1 racing has rarely been as exciting as it is now - not for a decade or two, at least but aren't we in danger of seeing the same teams dominating the sport, season after season. Where is the next Red Bull coming from? Even the might of Mercedes and the mega brain wattage and intellect of Brawn and Schumacher cannot halt the rise of the energy drink maker from Salzburg. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

EDIT: Typo

[HandyNZL 1]

Do I post in this thread or the other one?

[HandyNZL 1]

Do I post in this thread or the other one?

[HandyNZL 1]

Well, no one team is too worried about car-related changes next year but what about the teams themselves and their drivers?

Renault, Williams, HRT are in varying degrees financial bother and their continued involvement must be in some doubt.

Why is Renault always lumbered in with this news of no money, won't be there, no long term will to stay, yadda yadda? Next to Mercedes they have the most engines on the grid. They can afford to pay out drivers that have scored 50% of their points with one less race than the other guy, and it seems every time you look at their car it is more gold than black as yet another sponsor's sticker adorns it. As for Williams...well...they just need some results. Not since the classy Ralf Schumacher have they garnered podiums with regularity...with no Sam Michaels, whom personally I have felt was more of a handbrake than an accelerator pedal, they might actually go somewhere. And with a Renault engine to boot...booting out the crappy Cosworth (crappy in F1 terms, that is). HRT...every chance that next year they won't be called that.

Will Lotus finally take a giant step forward? Surely, their continued survival depends on it. They need a better foil for Kovi than Trulli now, don't they?

Trulli is a steady hand, but much like Rubens at Williams, his best races are behind him. Lotus would do well to pick up a driver of some experience that is on the way down (hence cheap), but prepared to do anything to stay in F1...two such people fit that bill...the aforementioned Rubens, and the formerly referred to, though not named, Nick Heidfeld.

STR is in limbo, isn't it? They impress mightily here and there but seem miles away from the top step. Will Buemi move up or just move along? Will Jaime stop breaking cars?

Neither driver currently at STR is going to go anywhere, frankly, except off to DTM, Indy, or another series, in the next few years. STR will be sold...you can't keep having the same stories written about you in the media without some of it actually being true. If, in the unlikely event that Mr MateSh#tz still wants to have two F1 teams, then expect the new crop of drivers to oust Buemi and Jaime...guys like Mitch Evans or Ritchie Stanaway...guys that can actually drive...and don't come with a cheque...

Di Resta, Kobi, Perez, Senna and Hulkenberg have shown great promise and it is heartening to see so much talent in the lower echelons of the grid. Where will they go though? How will they progress? Is there enough competitive seats?

Enough competitive seats? No...there are only six...and even those six are of varying competitiveness...and only retirement is going to have one or two of those seats open up. Kobayashi can expect to move forward to Renault or Merc perhaps, but Di Resta, Perez, Senna and Hulkenberg will most likely spend their careers in the mid teams of Sauber, Williams and Force India. Of those four, Hulkenberg has a chance to make it to Merc due to his country of birth, however the current pairing there is more of coincidence than a prerequisite that you must be from Germany. Sure, they are likely drivers of the future, however if Schumacher, M., has proved anything, it is that you can stay in F1 as long as you want...so expect Alonso, Hamilton, Button, Vettel to do just that...with three of those four to consistently be in the best seats in F1 from here on out. (I say 3, because Button will be the first of those four to retire)

The older drivers seem to be getting better with every race - Alonso, Button, Webber. Will Hamilton and Vettel be in their thirties before Perez or the Hulk slide into a great car?

I think I kind of answered that in the answer above...so yes...it is highly likely.

Personally, I fell Bernie's main job is to coax the likes of Hyundai and VW into the sport. What the hell do HRT and Virgin really bring to the formulae? Zero - in my book. The leading Japanese car makers are on the verge of bankruptcy right now but I believe that if Toyota and Honda had remained involved in F1 their positions may have been stronger.

Toyota and Honda would still have no money, no race wins...I think that is a bit of a wild claim you make there. F1 success these days does not relate to the car manufacturers bottom line success. The family sedan does, and no matter how many times Bernie says that there are millions watching and know all about F1, there are tens of millions that know diddley about it, but they all know about the latest 5-series BMW because they watch Top Gear. Car manufacturers face an interesting decade...one where petrol will become so expensive that the average Joe will not be able to afford it at the pump...they need to come up with an alternative, and batteries is not it...F1 will either have to stay a relic using fossil fuels, or give up on its aspirations of having that distinctive sound of 18000rpm (or so). Change is in the air...you can bet your 5-litre V8 sedan on it.

Do we need a Dave Richards and/or a Flavio Briatore to come in and make Renault and STR the super-competitive teams they should be? Are übermensch, corporate-type TPs like Whitmarsh, Boullier and Horner exactly what the sport needs?

Horner is a motorsport boy from, well, forever...he's not corporate...he just works for one. And guys like Ron Dennis would be considered corporate obviously by what you are implying in Whitmarsh (i.e. McLaren), but Ron has been there since before Rondel, and racing is in his blood. It is not the players that are corporate...it is the game..because it involves so much money. And because of so much money, the PR lads come along and mute everything and anything, and the drivers all sound the same. What F1 needs is personality...because it is lacking...where are the feuds in the vein of Prost/Senna? Alonso/Hamilton could have been it, but so much PR gibberish got put out there that the thing that could have been great for the sport was turned into something of a eunuch.

One thing is for sure. F1 racing has rarely been as exciting as it is now - not for a decade or two, at least but aren't we in danger of seeing the same teams dominating the sport, season after season. Where is the next Red Bull coming from? Even the might of Mercedes and the mega brain wattage and intellect of Brawn and Schumacher cannot halt the rise of the energy drink maker from Salzburg. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

If you go back to the seventies, one thing is a recurring theme right up to today...McLaren is there or there abouts...Ferrari has flashes of dominance...and once in a while another team will come along for two of three seasons to take a title (Benetton, Renault, Williams, RBR in the last 20)...but even McLaren has not been WCC champs in over a decade...the thing that has been common in these upstart teams that dare topple McLaren and Ferrari has been the designers....and designers are the underrated part of the equation...if you look at those four teams I mention, there is a common theme in two of them....one Adrian Newey...and lets not forget that McLarens last WCC came from the pen of Newey. I think F1 became stale with Ferrari's dominance in 2000-2005, and before that, McLaren in the late 90's....take those seven or so years out of the equation, and the excitement was there weekend in, weekend out. We have short memories, and rarely remember what went before...sadly because one man owns so much footage and won't let people see it...but you just have to watch Senna (the movie) and it doesn't take long to remember just how exciting it all was in the 80's and early 90's.

EDIT: Typo

[HandyNZL 1]

Insider, on 04 September 2011 - 09:54 PM, said: Well, no one team is too worried about car-related changes next year but what about the teams themselves and their drivers?

Renault, Williams, HRT are in varying degrees financial bother and their continued involvement must be in some doubt.

Why is Renault always lumbered in with this news of no money, won't be there, no long term will to stay, yadda yadda? Next to Mercedes they have the most engines on the grid. They can afford to pay out drivers that have scored 50% of their points with one less race than the other guy, and it seems every time you look at their car it is more gold than black as yet another sponsor's sticker adorns it. As for Williams...well...they just need some results. Not since the classy Ralf Schumacher have they garnered podiums with regularity...with no Sam Michaels, whom personally I have felt was more of a handbrake than an accelerator pedal, they might actually go somewhere. And with a Renault engine to boot...booting out the crappy Cosworth (crappy in F1 terms, that is). HRT...every chance that next year they won't be called that.

Will Lotus finally take a giant step forward? Surely, their continued survival depends on it. They need a better foil for Kovi than Trulli now, don't they?

Trulli is a steady hand, but much like Rubens at Williams, his best races are behind him. Lotus would do well to pick up a driver of some experience that is on the way down (hence cheap), but prepared to do anything to stay in F1...two such people fit that bill...the aforementioned Rubens, and the formerly referred to, though not named, Nick Heidfeld.

STR is in limbo, isn't it? They impress mightily here and there but seem miles away from the top step. Will Buemi move up or just move along? Will Jaime stop breaking cars?

Neither driver currently at STR is going to go anywhere, frankly, except off to DTM, Indy, or another series, in the next few years. STR will be sold...you can't keep having the same stories written about you in the media without some of it actually being true. If, in the unlikely event that Mr MateSh#tz still wants to have two F1 teams, then expect the new crop of drivers to oust Buemi and Jaime...guys like Mitch Evans or Ritchie Stanaway...guys that can actually drive...and don't come with a cheque...

Di Resta, Kobi, Perez, Senna and Hulkenberg have shown great promise and it is heartening to see so much talent in the lower echelons of the grid. Where will they go though? How will they progress? Is there enough competitive seats?

Enough competitive seats? No...there are only six...and even those six are of varying competitiveness...and only retirement is going to have one or two of those seats open up. Kobayashi can expect to move forward to Renault or Merc perhaps, but Di Resta, Perez, Senna and Hulkenberg will most likely spend their careers in the mid teams of Sauber, Williams and Force India. Of those four, Hulkenberg has a chance to make it to Merc due to his country of birth, however the current pairing there is more of coincidence than a prerequisite that you must be from Germany. Sure, they are likely drivers of the future, however if Schumacher, M., has proved anything, it is that you can stay in F1 as long as you want...so expect Alonso, Hamilton, Button, Vettel to do just that...with three of those four to consistently be in the best seats in F1 from here on out. (I say 3, because Button will be the first of those four to retire)

The older drivers seem to be getting better with every race - Alonso, Button, Webber. Will Hamilton and Vettel be in their thirties before Perez or the Hulk slide into a great car?

I think I kind of answered that in the answer above...so yes...it is highly likely.

Personally, I fell Bernie's main job is to coax the likes of Hyundai and VW into the sport. What the hell do HRT and Virgin really bring to the formulae? Zero - in my book. The leading Japanese car makers are on the verge of bankruptcy right now but I believe that if Toyota and Honda had remained involved in F1 their positions may have been stronger.

Toyota and Honda would still have no money, no race wins...I think that is a bit of a wild claim you make there. F1 success these days does not relate to the car manufacturers bottom line success. The family sedan does, and no matter how many times Bernie says that there are millions watching and know all about F1, there are tens of millions that know diddley about it, but they all know about the latest 5-series BMW because they watch Top Gear. Car manufacturers face an interesting decade...one where petrol will become so expensive that the average Joe will not be able to afford it at the pump...they need to come up with an alternative, and batteries is not it...F1 will either have to stay a relic using fossil fuels, or give up on its aspirations of having that distinctive sound of 18000rpm (or so). Change is in the air...you can bet your 5-litre V8 sedan on it.

Do we need a Dave Richards and/or a Flavio Briatore to come in and make Renault and STR the super-competitive teams they should be? Are übermensch, corporate-type TPs like Whitmarsh, Boullier and Horner exactly what the sport needs?

Horner is a motorsport boy from, well, forever...he's not corporate...he just works for one. And guys like Ron Dennis would be considered corporate obviously by what you are implying in Whitmarsh (i.e. McLaren), but Ron has been there since before Rondel, and racing is in his blood. It is not the players that are corporate...it is the game..because it involves so much money. And because of so much money, the PR lads come along and mute everything and anything, and the drivers all sound the same. What F1 needs is personality...because it is lacking...where are the feuds in the vein of Prost/Senna? Alonso/Hamilton could have been it, but so much PR gibberish got put out there that the thing that could have been great for the sport was turned into something of a eunuch.

One thing is for sure. F1 racing has rarely been as exciting as it is now - not for a decade or two, at least but aren't we in danger of seeing the same teams dominating the sport, season after season. Where is the next Red Bull coming from? Even the might of Mercedes and the mega brain wattage and intellect of Brawn and Schumacher cannot halt the rise of the energy drink maker from Salzburg. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

If you go back to the seventies, one thing is a recurring theme right up to today...McLaren is there or there abouts...Ferrari has flashes of dominance...and once in a while another team will come along for two of three seasons to take a title (Benetton, Renault, Williams, RBR in the last 20)...but even McLaren has not been WCC champs in over a decade...the thing that has been common in these upstart teams that dare topple McLaren and Ferrari has been the designers....and designers are the underrated part of the equation...if you look at those four teams I mention, there is a common theme in two of them....one Adrian Newey...and lets not forget that McLarens last WCC came from the pen of Newey. I think F1 became stale with Ferrari's dominance in 2000-2005, and before that, McLaren in the late 90's....take those seven or so years out of the equation, and the excitement was there weekend in, weekend out. We have short memories, and rarely remember what went before...sadly because one man owns so much footage and won't let people see it...but you just have to watch Senna (the movie) and it doesn't take long to remember just how exciting it all was in the 80's and early 90's.

EDIT: Typo

[HandyNZL 1]

It's hard work posting in two threads at the same time....

[HandyNZL 1]

It's hard work posting in two threads at the same time....

[Insider 0]

It's hard work posting in two threads at the same time....

I know, I know. I have brought it to the attention of the moderators

[Insider 0]

It's hard work posting in two threads at the same time....

I know, I know. I have brought it to the attention of the moderators

[HandyNZL 1]

There are moderators?

[HandyNZL 1]

There are moderators?

[Caesar 0]

this is silly. why don't you just choose one thread and post there?

[Caesar 0]

this is silly. why don't you just choose one thread and post there?

[BradSpeedMan 6]

yo...so does this double post whatever whatever really work???

[BradSpeedMan 6]

yo...so does this double post whatever whatever really work???

[BradSpeedMan 6]

not really, I had to go and double post heheheeheheheheheehehehehehehe

anyway, feel part of the thread now

[Quiet One 15]

Hey, this is fun! I wanna try!

Echoooo!

...

...

...

[dribbler 6]

My posts don't appear at all but then get multiplied by eight.

[Rainmaster 7]

Well, no one team is too worried about car-related changes next year but what about the teams themselves and their drivers?

Renault, Williams, HRT are in varying degrees financial bother and their continued involvement must be in some doubt.

Not sure about Renault's financial situation (other than rumour..) but I don't think their participation is in any doubt for next year. Speculation is that Williams are looking to drop Barrichello for a driver who can bring sponsorship money. HRT.. oh who cares.

Will Lotus finally take a giant step forward? Surely, their continued survival depends on it. They need a better foil for Kovi than Trulli now, don't they?

STR is in limbo, isn't it? They impress mightily here and there but seem miles away from the top step. Will Buemi move up or just move along? Will Jaime stop breaking cars?

Di Resta, Kobi, Perez, Senna and Hulkenberg have shown great promise and it is heartening to see so much talent in the lower echelons of the grid. Where will they go though? How will they progress? Is there enough competitive seats?

The older drivers seem to be getting better with every race - Alonso, Button, Webber. Will Hamilton and Vettel be in their thirties before Perez or the Hulk slide into a great car?

Lotus still look the best placed of the bottom 3 and we'll see if they move on up. They can probably do better than Jarno, although apparently the new steering is much better for his sensitive style so his results may improve. I also read something about a name change for the team next year as part of a deal Fernandes' airline did with the Malaysian government.

STR are still adjusting to building their own car and will be changing premises soon iirc. They also signed a new sponsorship deal recently so things look good for them (http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/94183). Buemi and Jaime seem quite evenly matched although lately Jaime has had the edge, I think.

The Hulk deserves another shot and will hopefully get it. Senna needs more mileage before we can asses him, but he has promise. Di Resta is the new Jackie Stewart and Perez is the new Fangio (fact). Not enough competitive seats but let's see what Webber and Massa do at end 2012, when these new generation of drivers (Di Resta and Perez most likely) will be just about ready to move up.

Personally, I fell Bernie's main job is to coax the likes of Hyundai and VW into to the sport. What the hell do HRT and Virgin really bring to the formulae? Zero - in my book. The leading Japanese car makers are on the verge of bankruptcy right now but I believe that if Toyota and Honda had remained involved in F1 their positions may have been stronger.

Do we need a Dave Richards and/or a Flavio Briatore to come in and make Renault and STR the super-competitive teams they should be? Are these über-efficient, corporate-type TPs exactly what the sport needs?

One thing is for sure. F1 racing has rarely been as exciting as it is now - not for a decade or two, at least but aren't we in danger of seeing the same teams dominating the sport, season after season. Where is the next Red Bull coming from? Even the might of Mercedes and the mega brain wattage and intellect of Brawn and Schumacher cannot halt the rise of the energy drink maker from Salzburg. Make you wonder, doesn't it?

EDIT: Typos

Let's hope some new manufacturers enter the sport. As EJ pointed out on the BBC, these new corporate style guys are perhaps better than having the team owner being the voice of the team and handling things at the track. Less of a stake in it all, less emotion, more progress and cooperation.