Russian Gp

[Jem of the Shire 0]

lol why, because we've disagreed sometimes? I have absolutely no reason to be bias for or against any driver, other than perhaps the British ones simply cos they're british; even then, I don't really like Lewis but I do like the fact he expresses himself so I tend to stick up for him because so much cr4p is aimed at him.

IMO the 2 bottas kimi incidents were completely different. Kimi turned in at Mexico knowing full well Bottas was right next to him.

In Russia Bottas was a few car lengths ahead and there was no reason for him to not just take his usual line. This is 1 of those situations where it seems everyone in f1 ie commentary, analysers, pundits, stewards all think 1 thing & a few peeps on gptoday think another!

[BradSpeedMan 6]

lol why, because we've disagreed sometimes? I have absolutely no reason to be bias for or against any driver, other than perhaps the British ones simply cos they're british; even then, I don't really like Lewis but I do like the fact he expresses himself so I tend to stick up for him because so much cr4p is aimed at him.

IMO the 2 bottas kimi incidents were completely different. Kimi turned in at Mexico knowing full well Bottas was right next to him.

In Russia Bottas was a few car lengths ahead and there was no reason for him to not just take his usual line. This is 1 of those situations where it seems everyone in f1 ie commentary, analysers, pundits, stewards all think 1 thing & a few peeps on gptoday think another!

Really. Maybe look at the footage again tonight at home. I greatly encourage you to...

And it ended up EXACTLY the same. Yet Kimi is the one penalized???

[Emmcee 0]

I can't beleive the denial iam reading.

[spiral.out 0]

lol I thought you guys knew me by now. C'mon my last comment was a joke and a poke.

Honestly I think the first incident was largely Kimis fault and the second, Bottas. (but only because Bottas went off the track before he went up the inside, and Kimi left him "just enough space" and he didnt use it all.)

PS this part is for Webric.

Both accidents were hard out Bottas fault, they should revoke that guys license!

This part is for Jem

Obviously Button was to blame for both collisions and the weak rear structure on the Ferrari. Also his word title is meaningless. MUHAAHAHAAAAAA

[Emmcee 0]

Lol if buttons title is meaningless, what does it say about kimis? Least you knew button was going to win as he was actually winning races lol.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Every title counts, even if you're in the dominant car. You still have to be consistent, not make mistakes, and most of all beat your team-mate. When the Brawn was the best, ie first half of '09, Button wiped the floor with Rubens. Mike Hawthorn won the title thanks to Stirling Moss basically giving it to him but we all remember Hawthorn as a world champ.

[Emmcee 0]

Hawthorn may have been champion but over here in Australia, Stirling moss is held in a different league to hawthorn. Perhaps because we're not English, but I do get your point.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I can't beleive the denial iam reading.

who? Yours and Jem?

[Jem of the Shire 0]

We often say that everything we type is just opinions, and that's true. There isn't a 100% right or wrong either way here. But I still I think it's worth noting, that EVERYTHING you see and hear on TV, radio, websites about that Russia crash is that it was Kimi's fault. It is literally only on this forum that I have seen otherwise. Call me biased or wrong or whatever but that's just a telling fact I think.

[Emmcee 0]

We often say that everything we type is just opinions, and that's true. There isn't a 100% right or wrong either way here. But I still I think it's worth noting, that EVERYTHING you see and hear on TV, radio, websites about that Russia crash is that it was Kimi's fault. It is literally only on this forum that I have seen otherwise. Call me biased or wrong or whatever but that's just a telling fact I think.

Yep I second that.

[Emmcee 0]

who? Yours and Jem?

You know, I used to be a comedian also, everyone laughed at me, so I quit.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

We often say that everything we type is just opinions, and that's true. There isn't a 100% right or wrong either way here. But I still I think it's worth noting, that EVERYTHING you see and hear on TV, radio, websites about that Russia crash is that it was Kimi's fault. It is literally only on this forum that I have seen otherwise. Call me biased or wrong or whatever but that's just a telling fact I think.

Pls take some time to back it up. Remember...u said...EVERYTHING. Let me see what you see. Im always the one backing up my statements with resources (websites etc) to back most of my points. Please do it at least once.

Remember our main crux of the matter is the penalty that was handed out to Kimi, then inconsistently not to Bottas two races later.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

To be fair. I see Webric do it, and normally form opinion from it

[Emmcee 0]

To be fair. I see Webric do it, and normally form opinion from it

Thankyou, let me ask you this mate. If TV pundits,drivers,ex drivers see the same thing as you, don't you think that just backs up your statement? Or do you just go off what you think is right? There's a lot of times I haven't agreed with what the controversy was about, but if TV pundits,drivers and ex drivers see it one way and I see it the other, it's not long before I see that point of view and always change my outlook. You have to take there experience, unless you've done the same and are able to say "hey that's not right" we have to take there word for it. But there good at explaining why it has happened. Ive learnt so much from the likes of Martin brundle and TV pundits who were ex drivers and it improved my racing and my whole approach. But I also learnt, sometimes people just disagree and that's why we have places like this, so we can explain our thoughts, isn't it great though? I like it when people get frustrated or heated as that's the passion of the sport,and we need more of it.

[spiral.out 0]

Every title counts, even if you're in the dominant car. You still have to be consistent, not make mistakes, and most of all beat your team-mate. When the Brawn was the best, ie first half of '09, Button wiped the floor with Rubens. Mike Hawthorn won the title thanks to Stirling Moss basically giving it to him but we all remember Hawthorn as a world champ.

Yeah it counts but some count more than others. Buttons, like Hamiltons, were handed to him on a silver platter.

[Emmcee 0]

How was buttons handed to him? He drove some incredible races. For someone who didn't even know if he was driving that season and missed 3-4 test sessions that everyone else had and still did well. We all know the brawn story and how the car wasn't even built around the Mercedes engine but yet it was a match made in heaven. So I think buttons title holds a lot more merit than what's been described above.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

There are so many years we could look back on and say they were 'given' the title. Look at Prost in '86 - that was Mansell's title. Prost inherited it thanks to Mansell's tyre blowing out. Except no-one actually says that, because Prost racked up enough points so he deserved it. Same with Kimi in '07, he deserved it IMO. Lewis had it won and stuffed it up with mistakes in the last few races.

Brad you've clarified the crux is that Bottas didn't get a penalty in Mexico. As they were completely different incidents with different circumstances, there's no comparison, & we've already gone over why.

[Emmcee 0]

I always see 86 as a championship cruely taken from mansell. I've watched that race time and time again and I never get sick of hearing Murray loose the plot when it happened. 2007, that was alonso's year, not Lewis's and if Mclaren managed there drivers better, I think it wouldve happened. Lewis did some of his best ever driving to date that season but I think Montoya summed it up perfectly in a recent interview. basically saying no driver out there has the speed alonso has, and I firmly believe that the 2007 title would've been alonso if half the team weren't on each side of the garage.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

From the Guardian newspaper:

"the stewards gave Kimi Raikkonen a penalty for his late-race, clumsy lunge at Bottas on turn four" and about mexico: "Sebastian Vettel made a number of mistakes before crashing out, while Kimi Raikkonen bashed into Valtteri Bottas again."

From The Telegraph (about mexico): "the Ferrari man gave him space initially but refused to yield the apex into the following corner.

Bottas had nowhere to go and the pair collided"

From BBC (about mexico): "

Bottas went around the outside of Raikkonen at Turn Four and was more than halfway alongside his fellow Finn on the inside as they reached Turn Five, the second part of what is effectively an elongated chicane.

Raikkonen turned in anyway, and the two touched"

From Martin Brundle: "Kimi will have known Valtteri was in town, he'd been there on the way into Turn Four and he wasn't going to evaporate into Turn Five. There was certainly no point in just turning in. Their two recent incidents were very different - Kimi was coming from a long way back in Sochi."

From Sky Sports: "It would be hard to place any blame on Bottas for the crash, as he was alongside Raikkonen when the Ferrari driver decided to take the apex of turn five."

Is that enough or should I keep going?

[Emmcee 0]

But that's all wrong Jem. There all incorrect, lmao, common bloody sense isn't?

[BradSpeedMan 6]

From the Guardian newspaper:

"the stewards gave Kimi Raikkonen a penalty for his late-race, clumsy lunge at Bottas on turn four" and about mexico: "Sebastian Vettel made a number of mistakes before crashing out, while Kimi Raikkonen bashed into Valtteri Bottas again."

From The Telegraph (about mexico): "the Ferrari man gave him space initially but refused to yield the apex into the following corner.

Bottas had nowhere to go and the pair collided"

From BBC (about mexico): "

Bottas went around the outside of Raikkonen at Turn Four and was more than halfway alongside his fellow Finn on the inside as they reached Turn Five, the second part of what is effectively an elongated chicane.

Raikkonen turned in anyway, and the two touched"

From Martin Brundle: "Kimi will have known Valtteri was in town, he'd been there on the way into Turn Four and he wasn't going to evaporate into Turn Five. There was certainly no point in just turning in. Their two recent incidents were very different - Kimi was coming from a long way back in Sochi."

From Sky Sports: "It would be hard to place any blame on Bottas for the crash, as he was alongside Raikkonen when the Ferrari driver decided to take the apex of turn five."

Is that enough or should I keep going?

Oh, I thought you were going to give me justification for the penalty on Kimi?????????? and not classifying it a racing incident. Then the following clash in Mexico classified racing incident

Apparently EVERYONE, or to further emphasize, your words...EVERYTHING was Kimi at fault

[BradSpeedMan 6]

This is before I post what I read

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I was giving you justification of how the 2 incidents were different and Bottas was not at fault in mexico. To say they should both get a penalty is just ridiculous because the circumstances of the incidents were totally different. You are the only person who thinks otherwise.

[Emmcee 0]

No bs, kimi should have got penalised again and sorry but that's the god honest truth. It's black and white brad. If you can't see kimis divebomb as justification then sorry I don't know how else we can help. But I can tell you why I think he should've been penalised again. He knew bottas was there as he defended the corner earlier, anyone with half a brain would realise that bottas ist going to back out as he now has a run into the second corner and has track position not to mention almost dead even alongside kimi but for some reason kimi still turns in, yet another avoidable accident if he just gave it up as the move was already done. Hey if he even slowed down earlier, he would've had a run on bottas almost imediatly coming out of that corner.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

thats the thing - he turned in anyway, even though Bottas was driving alongside him and had nowhere to go at that point. He must've known there'd be a collision. In Russia it was completely different. Bottas had made the pass, took his line, but Kimi threw himself in from way back and just clattered into the side of him. Like webric says it's pretty plain & simple! I'd say the same thing if it was Bottas in Kimi's position, I don't really like or dislike either of them.