Much Respect For Seb.

[Emmcee 0]

No you assumed that, your the one implying Seb hasn't made as many mistakes as alonso in there first seasons, which is incorrect. You count Bahrain and Canada, he has made more mistakes than alonso has. That's my opinion so no need to ask for a negative button to dislike my post. I could go on but what alonso did in his time at Ferrari, if it can't be noticed, I might aswell stop here. Like I mentioned before my head got blown off, I have a lot of new found respect for Seb but until he does what alonso did in the 2012 Malaysian GP, I still hold him behind alonso. When mclaren gets back to the top, iam sure there will be plenty of excuses to argue over as to why alonso is winning again. The other thing, not taking anything away from Vettel but who is he racing? Only the williams, alonso was battling redbull who had both drivers winning races, same as mclaren with a competitive Mercedes and Renault team aswell. So 5 wins and 4 points shy of a third title isn't bad in such a competitive season.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Why do people keep saying Lewis would have a meltdown if he had some competition? Didn't any of you watch 2007, 2008, 2010, 2012 and 2014? You may remember Lewis was involved in all of those title battles and didn't have any meltdowns.

Seb & Alonso are both world class. In 20 years they'll both be remembered amongst the greats. I'm fedup of people pointing to Seb's 4xWDC as the only evidence in his favour though. Who knows what Alonso might've achieved in Seb's place?

Spiral you mentioned Seb is achieving Ferrari's target this year. Their target is not to come 2nd, ever. Their target every year is to win championships. So by your logic, Seb is just as much of a failure as Alonso was

[Emmcee 0]

Why do people keep saying Lewis would have a meltdown if he had some competition? Didn't any of you watch 2007, 2008, 2010, 2012 and 2014? You may remember Lewis was involved in all of those title battles and didn't have any meltdowns.

Seb & Alonso are both world class. In 20 years they'll both be remembered amongst the greats. I'm fedup of people pointing to Seb's 4xWDC as the only evidence in his favour though. Who knows what Alonso might've achieved in Seb's place?

Spiral you mentioned Seb is achieving Ferrari's target this year. Their target is not to come 2nd, ever. Their target every year is to win championships. So by your logic, Seb is just as much of a failure as Alonso was

Good bloody post, common sense always prevails. Lewis has never been in a full on pressure situation all season long for the title. 2014 doesn't count as we all know the team won't allow them to fight 100%. Remember all those incidents with Felipe massa and just making stupid mistakes? That's the effect his mental mind as on him, he is his own worst enemy. You can't teach a dog new tricks and this is a characteristic that people have become to familiar with when discussing Hamilton, but aside from that, you hit the nail on the head like always jem.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Why do people keep saying Lewis would have a meltdown if he had some competition? Didn't any of you watch 2007, 2008, 2010, 2012 and 2014? You may remember Lewis was involved in all of those title battles and didn't have any meltdowns.

Seb & Alonso are both world class. In 20 years they'll both be remembered amongst the greats. I'm fedup of people pointing to Seb's 4xWDC as the only evidence in his favour though. Who knows what Alonso might've achieved in Seb's place?

Spiral you mentioned Seb is achieving Ferrari's target this year. Their target is not to come 2nd, ever. Their target every year is to win championships. So by your logic, Seb is just as much of a failure as Alonso was

Hello??? It was me, please leave spiral out of this... The target is NOT to win the championship this year, but from next year onwards. 3 Wins for the year was the target because of Merc domination and being locked in with ridiculous engine rules. Don't you even know this?????

yes, in 20 years they will be known amongts the greats, one who had a four year winning streak, might equal Schumacher, mark my words... and one a two time champ. Yes, we don't know what Alonso might have achieved at RBR... maybe Webber would've beaten him 4 years in a row. He could'nt achieved squat in the greatest F1 team with the whole team built around him

[Emmcee 0]

How naive can you be? Do you fail to see the competition level each had to fight against? Seb only has Williams and in a good day raikkonen might come out to play but like I mentioned earlier, there was like 5 drivers alonso had to battle it out for to win races. Alonso couldn't do anything with a team built around him? What does that say about Vettel and Ricciardo coming into HIS team and sweeping the floor with him. Ohh he had a bad year did he? When did alonso last have one of them? Heck he even won in a bloody Renault ffs, second time around (bet only crash gate is mentioned here as its so predictable). How more blind can some be? When all the facts and eveidence is in the table, people still disagree, if you hate him so much, that's fine but don't let it impare your vision let alone your mind.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Sorry about mentioning the wrong person Brad - please keep your knickers firmly on. Right ok, so when Seb doesn't win the 2016 title, can we call him a failure? No, didn't think so.

Alonso & Ferrari as a team failed to win the WDC. To lay the blame solely at Alonso's door is just plain ridiculous, particularly given that most of the F1 fraternity often made it clear that Alonso was in fact the only one SAVING Ferrari from total humiliation. This constant "whole team built around him" myth is a theory, not a fact, and I'm guessing it's based on 1 comment James Allison may have made about 2 years ago. Massa had the same car.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Sorry about mentioning the wrong person Brad - please keep your knickers firmly on. Right ok, so when Seb doesn't win the 2016 title, can we call him a failure? No, didn't think so.

Alonso & Ferrari as a team failed to win the WDC. To lay the blame solely at Alonso's door is just plain ridiculous, particularly given that most of the F1 fraternity often made it clear that Alonso was in fact the only one SAVING Ferrari from total humiliation. This constant "whole team built around him" myth is a theory, not a fact, and I'm guessing it's based on 1 comment James Allison may have made about 2 years ago. Massa had the same car.

The goal was never to win the championship this year Jem, read my lips... Next year when they fail you can come up with that accusation. The rules are too tight engine-wise to make that big a leap.. The goal was simply for Ferrari to win 3 races this year. That has been achieved.

Yes, Ferrari and Alonso failed, make no mistake. But the days of building a team around one driver is long gone.... Unfortunately they went that route, and when they started failing, staff were fired with input from Alonso, notably Costa. Those fine little details. Make no mistake Jem, the Ferrari car was capable of winning the championship twice during his tenure. TWICE! So it was'nt all that bad, don't be deceived... And Alonso failed having a car capable of winning the championship during his tenure.

You probably going to ignore this again...

Massa says his status at Ferrari slipped suddenly when Fernando Alonso was signed in 2010, “At first, yes . Then things changed when Alonso came. I looked around and saw that suddenly I had no power over things, over the details. And our sport is made of the details.”

“And you can change them only if you have the power. It’s all about power, and I had lost it. The most obvious symptom was that I did not feel important anymore,” Massa explained. “It was enough to see it just by making eye-contact with the people around me. It was impossible to be happy.”

Massa said he thinks Ferrari’s approach to the Alonso era was “wrong”, but admits he also questioned himself during that period.

“So many times I thought I should be less kind. Harder and selfish. But then you look at yourself and take stock. Many things have happened to me.I was friends with a legend like Schumacher and a golden boy like Bianchi.”

“I went through two or three eras of the sport, I saw injustice and the worst time of my life when I was forced to let my teammate past me, but I also won a lot and above all I enjoyed.”

“I fell often, but every time I got up. No, I would not change anything. I have always been myself, Felipe, and if that caused me some difficulty then my strength allowed me to overcome and become a man and a better father,” said Massa.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I wont ignore anything you say but I must admit my memory isn't great. However I thought you said earlier that Ferrari's target was to win 3 races in 2015, then aim for title after that. So my point is if Seb doesn't win the WDC in 2016, he's failed - and that would be extremely harsh.

I just can't see how Alonso failed. Yes the car was capable, but surely you could argue that it's 50% thanks to Alonso's remarkable consistency & speed that had him come so close. Massa was literally hundreds of points behind in the same car. Even if he felt he wasn't important, he had the same car & we all know Massa is quick. The Red Bull was like it was on rails, it's no secret their downforce/aero was the best. Seb made the most of it but Alonso deserves credit for coming so close - and this forum is literally the only place I've seen the opposite.

[Emmcee 0]

Not only that, something Brad has failed to take any notice of and that's the field of drivers winning races in 2010 compared to this year is at a scale of 6 to 3. There is no one who can challenge Mercedes ATM so all Ferrari has to battle with is Williams and on a rare occasion redbull. But 2010 saw up to 6 different drivers capable of winning races and yet alonso got nearly won a third title and had 5 wins. To build a car around a driver is rediculous, all that can be done is make certain adjustments that suit that particular driver and may have an extra part or newer part in his car compared to his teammate. The only benefit alonso had over massa was priority on new developed parts. But eventually both cars would end up virtually the same season end. That's what makes ricciardos season last year even better,

Driving an out dated redbull at most points of the season but yet still beat Seb. Did this ever happen to schumi in his prime? Nope neither alonso as most people can argue the fact he would've won the 2007 title if mclaren sorted there crap out, alonso has never been beaten by a teammate. Even some alonso haters here hate him so much that they believed Ferrari got rid of alonso last year, when in fact they literally begged him to stay and threw a contract at him till 2019. He refused,I would to, does it occur to anyone that the problem WAS management and that's why they never got the results and ended up getting sacked? Course not, yet with alonso leaving in frustration and new driver and staff refreshed for a new challenge work very well being the obvious solution it's just easier to keep hating. To come to think of it, IMO I don't think I've seen any driver of late make fewer mistakes and be ever so consistent, than Fernando Alonso. You watch his on boards, hardly ever a mistake, reminds me of senna in that aspect. Iam talking about driving mistakes, driver error and simply having that more authentic approach at the start of a race but that's my opinion and that only, don't dislike my comments now.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Alonso was outplayed, outwitted and outlasted. Driving around in a mid-to-lower field car should teach him some humility...

[Emmcee 0]

That statement makes no sense, there's plenty of proof to back up what I or jem or basically every f1 driver has said, but you fail to want to see it and yet your the one screaming about proof. What more is there than the drivers word? Tell me because I would like to know. You would think the drivers racing him week in and week out would know more than you don't you think?

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Not only that, something Brad has failed to take any notice of and that's the field of drivers winning races in 2010 compared to this year is at a scale of 6 to 3. There is no one who can challenge Mercedes ATM so all Ferrari has to battle with is Williams and on a rare occasion redbull. But 2010 saw up to 6 different drivers capable of winning races and yet alonso got nearly won a third title and had 5 wins. To build a car around a driver is rediculous, all that can be done is make certain adjustments that suit that particular driver and may have an extra part or newer part in his car compared to his teammate. The only benefit alonso had over massa was priority on new developed parts. But eventually both cars would end up virtually the same season end. That's what makes ricciardos season last year even better,

Driving an out dated redbull at most points of the season but yet still beat Seb. Did this ever happen to schumi in his prime? Nope neither alonso as most people can argue the fact he would've won the 2007 title if mclaren sorted there crap out, alonso has never been beaten by a teammate. Even some alonso haters here hate him so much that they believed Ferrari got rid of alonso last year, when in fact they literally begged him to stay and threw a contract at him till 2019. He refused,I would to, does it occur to anyone that the problem WAS management and that's why they never got the results and ended up getting sacked? Course not, yet with alonso leaving in frustration and new driver and staff refreshed for a new challenge work very well being the obvious solution it's just easier to keep hating. To come to think of it, IMO I don't think I've seen any driver of late make fewer mistakes and be ever so consistent, than Fernando Alonso. You watch his on boards, hardly ever a mistake, reminds me of senna in that aspect. Iam talking about driving mistakes, driver error and simply having that more authentic approach at the start of a race but that's my opinion and that only, don't dislike my comments now.

This is now the second time you brought this up. We have gone to great lenghts explaining why Vettel had a freak year, even opened some threads along the way. I'm currently looking at the standings and see Kvyat 3 points ahead. That must be hurting you. Kvyat must be an even greater genius that Ric. If you blame engine failures and whatnot, remember Vettel had the same, starting from missing testing schedules right at the beginning of the year which made life very unpleasant. You don't seem to listen...

Do not bring this up again. Cause I will make your experience here about Ric very unpleasant. You have been warned

[BradSpeedMan 6]

That statement makes no sense, there's plenty of proof to back up what I or jem or basically every f1 driver, but you fail to want to see it and yet your the one screaming about proof. What more is there than the drivers word? Tell me because I would like to know.

I have gone to great lengths explaning the how's and why's, even backed up my statements with reliable website links. You are either very ignorant or arrogant. You really don't seem to listen

[Emmcee 0]

Well it doesn't bother me because I know kvyat has had a lot more luck than Ricciardo has and I bring it up as you fail to listen and it only proves your inconsistencies. Seb had the car built around him, that's what you would have to say as you think that alonso had Ferrari do the same, so you would think dan coming into a new team, would need the extra testing, yet Vettel couldn't do anything to match dan. Also if Ricciardo didn't retire in Russia he would be over 10 points ahead of kvyat. Still closer than Kimi was to alonso and Seb. You fail to analyse the entire field during a race and I know this for a fact due to some of your ridiculous comments.

[Emmcee 0]

I have gone to great lengths explaning the how's and why's, even backed up my statements with reliable website links. You are either very ignorant or arrogant. You really don't seem to listen

And you believe everything you read? Seems to have been the ideal excuse for kimi didn't it? See that's what I mean, you want people to accept and see your opinion but you just don't want to accept others because you think there wrong. Well why can't the other person feel the same and think your wrong? At the end of the day I don't really care as I know what I see. Just thought I'd share my opinion but since it's wrong, I'd have more chance of a decent conversation with a fart caught in a jar.

[Ajay Fernando 0]

phew. Again with alonso and sebastian. ?? I m really getting bored of this. Alonso is driving at the very last barring the manors. Lets talk about a new rivalry grooming up. That is Lewis vs Sebastian. And of course we all know that kimi aint going to beat seb next year, so is rosberg. who do you think will come on top? hope ferrari provdes the machinery to sebastian. !!

Lewis has the pace and consistency but mentally weak comparing to seb

Seb has everything. He just needs a top car.

[Emmcee 0]

Ricciardo lol

[Ajay Fernando 0]

Ha ha ha. Ricci needs a car that has engine. Right now that is his main concern. I feel redbull is getting renault next year

[Emmcee 0]

Can dream though can't I lol?

[spiral.out 0]

I back Seb all the way. Hamilton is a douche.

[Emmcee 0]

Would love to see a season long battle between these two like Schumacher and hill.

[KoolMonkey 0]

We'd all like to see a battle. Not going to happen, quite possibly ever. Merc are so far ahead, Glamilton can race and 70% and still win it with his eyes closed.

[spiral.out 0]

Glamilton!

[KoolMonkey 0]

I wonder if he'll wear a swimming cap. The rain might make his doo look a little flat. Cue Sasha Baren Cohen as Brüno prancing up to fix his hair after the race pre podium lol.

[spiral.out 0]

lol

Hamilton might turn up in Bruno's onepiece since its so wet.