Kvyat Is A Dead Man

[Emmcee 0]

Sakae, WebRic will never agree that this actually happened, that yes Webber was offered the front wing first but didn't want it. This has happened during races in the years afterwards in other teams, but nope, back in the RBR days, it was utter proof in his mind they were sabotaging and destroying Webbers career and races. I remember clearly Webber saying he didn't want it. He said it, it wasn't rumour. That is fact. But WebRic, will go on for infinity on how this was Marko and Vettel and RBR screwing over Webber and giving preferential treatment. Better to talk about food or the weather honestly.

No matter what he says be it praising Vettel or Kimi, there's always a but but but in there. It's hollow praise to then follow with hammering on those drivers and their fans. Ricci will always be greater than Vettel in his mind. Kimi will always stink, his fans are fanatics and supposedly have caused him grief over the years. Heck he's even posted a hello post to a new member here, staying beware the Kimi fans will get on your case. He'll swear, he'll carry on, and be caught out so many times by factual posts. And when cornered, will end it with, lets agree to disagree. That's his get out of free jail card I suppose lol.

Just in case you didn't know "Emmcee" is "WebRic".

Because I have evidence from someone who worked in the pitlane and worked with webber himself, if you can't beleive that and believe what every magazine article says, then that's your issue, I just have a laugh to myself when I know Iam right, you never have spotted facts and when I do, everyone gets quiet over it and refuses to comment is that because to many people will have to admit there wrong or are blown away when having to use common sense "what's this thought pattern, never had it before" monkey you need to get of your high horse and realise that sometimes, your wrong mate, but that's something you and brad can never do, admit your wrong. Even if a driver or team member says something, you have to question the fact because it doesn't roll the right way for you, get over it bro and realise, you can be wrong, it won't hurt you, might make you look abit more human IMO and not some internet bully. I do think Ricciardo is better than Vettel but that's my opinion and because it's not what you want to hear it's wrong? Get bent mate, I agree to disagree as Iam over arguing the same points when I have evidence and proof and it doesn't even get looked at but brad on the other hand, you two are joined at the hip. We can keep arguing if you like but I get more common sense out of my 6 yr old, kvyat caused China accident, bah because drivers arnt allowed to change lines this time because you said so monkey, is that why it's his fault? Why you taking about me to other members for anyway? Trying to rally troops and prooved your point is correct? Give me a break, thought you weren't replying to any of my posts anymore, how many times have you said that?

[Emmcee 0]

Hmmm, thanks. I've been suspicious of it for some time, but that's OK. This balances things out because I am not buying into this Webber innocence at all. Look, Seb was with RBR in 2014, a different teammate, and again, from what I read, no complaints. Why? It was still the same Vettel. The answer is rather obvious.

Use common sense sakae, it was webber's team before Seb came along, how do you think he will treat the situation concidwring he was pushed aside by Vettel for number one. Webber was never as good as Vettel and I'll admit that but webber also said he wasn't as fast as Ricciardo either and the reason why they probably got along was Vettel was looking for another chassis to swap or an answer as to why he can't beat dan, he was distracted by that let alone beating his team mate, but no, Vettel is never wrong,never makes a mistake,never acts/acted like a spoilt brat" even marko has a good look around before making comments on Vettel back in the day, can tell his lying straight away, that's if you studied reading body language like I did for 6 months but hey Iam wrong to compared to an average on looker, because someone who's out there own time into something, is wrong to the casual on looker. I've never claimed webber's innocence in this whole inter team battle it's people assuming and making there own minds up for me, but I do know he wasn't the instigator, he retaliated but who wouldn't after your team starts ripping you off, Vettel wasn't a good boy either but that's over looked to hey or you forget about that? you said webber broke team orders first but you never answered my question, did webber break team orders before Turkey 2010? Because that's all where it started.

[Sakae 0]

Use common sense sakae, it was webber's team before Seb came along, how do you think he will treat the situation concidwring he was pushed aside by Vettel for number one. Webber was never as good as Vettel and I'll admit that but webber also said he wasn't as fast as Ricciardo either and the reason why they probably got along was Vettel was looking for another chassis to swap or an answer as to why he can't beat dan, he was distracted by that let alone beating his team mate, but no, Vettel is never wrong,never makes a mistake,never acts/acted like a spoilt brat" even marko has a good look around before making comments on Vettel back in the day, can tell his lying straight away, that's if you studied reading body language like I did for 6 months but hey Iam wrong to compared to an average on looker, because someone who's out there own time into something, is wrong to the casual on looker. I've never claimed webber's innocence in this whole inter team battle it's people assuming and making there own minds up for me, but I do know he wasn't the instigator, he retaliated but who wouldn't after your team starts ripping you off, Vettel wasn't a good boy either but that's over looked to hey or you forget about that? you said webber broke team orders first but you never answered my question, did webber break team orders before Turkey 2010? Because that's all where it started.

I think that question has been answered more than once. Based on my recollection, from interviews following the incident you are referring to, at first management kept quiet, but later on, Horner and Marko mentioned that Vettel's "disobedience" should not be excused, but was understood, because Webber committed similar infraction, treated internally only, but Vettel was aware of it, which might have actually triggered Vettel's "payback" in Turkey. In addition, and we have learned about it only recently when Webber's partner approached Horner and demanded punishment of Vettel, she was informed they received a letter from Vettel's lawyer referring them to the conditions of his contract.

[Emmcee 0]

There was no tension prior to Turkey that year, it all started to show cracks when people were mind blown that marko said webber was at fault in the collision, that then made people go "well if marko said that, then it must be true" and adopted the same out look, reguardless how far fetched and out of common sense it was, that's where it all started and Redbull allowed Vettel to basically create his own contract as any team at the time would've done anything to keep him. Now if you can see that he had special treatment conditions in his contract, wouldn't he get it on everything else? Parts priority and such, I beleive so and IMO if you don't like monkey, it's plane ignorance not to beleive drivers get priority in parts and development making the cars different in more ways than one, a formula one engineer told me that.

[KoolMonkey 0]

I think that question has been answered more than once. Based on my recollection, from interviews following the incident you are referring to, at first management kept quiet, but later on, Horner and Marko mentioned that Vettel's "disobedience" should not be excused, but was understood, because Webber committed similar infraction, treated internally only, but Vettel was aware of it, which might have actually triggered Vettel's "payback" in Turkey. In addition, and we have learned about it only recently when Webber's partner approached Horner and demanded punishment of Vettel, she was informed they received a letter from Vettel's lawyer referring them to the conditions of his contract.

Ohhh, now I wasn't aware of there being stuff happening before Turkey. Turkey was in avoidable incident. Certainly Vettel did in no way mean to crash into Webber, but Webber moved too. Thus I think had Vettel not been so agressive contact wouldn't have happened, but if Webber wasn't so defensive and let Vettel have the pass, they wouldn't have made contact either. If Webber was being passed, then that particular battle was lost. He could have kept his nerve and fought back and tried to retake the place. But looking at the footage, it's like a magnet was between the cars. They kind of lurch into each other.

Explains the further incidents, like in Silverstone, where Webber disobeyed direct orders, and then in Brazil where he almost took out Vettel at the first corner, then didn't do anything to help Vettel from then on. So when Vettel passed him in Malaysia, it was justified payback in my view. And the cause of the boo brigade and crap hurled towards Vettel... and there's Webber happy to play the "victim". He wasn't a victim. He just wasn't a team player at that point in his career. He kept signing one year contracts, and then wondered why the team was rallying behind him in the long terms plans. Duh!

I think he should have gone to Ferrari for a year or two before retiring. It would have done him good.

[Sakae 0]

@E - Do you have any reason to believe that Dr. Marko was mistaken? The public is not privy to everything that is going on between a driver and his team; not even all radio conversations were public. From my recollection racing line taken by Webber would have driven Vettel off track limits, unless he let Webber through first, and file behind him, however, considering relative positions of both cars, Webber really was not thinking straight.

[Sakae 0]

Ohhh, now I wasn't aware of there being stuff happening before Turkey. Turkey was in avoidable incident. Certainly Vettel did in no way mean to crash into Webber, but Webber moved too. Thus I think had Vettel not been so agressive contact wouldn't have happened, but if Webber wasn't so defensive and let Vettel have the pass, they wouldn't have made contact either. If Webber was being passed, then that particular battle was lost. He could have kept his nerve and fought back and tried to retake the place. But looking at the footage, it's like a magnet was between the cars. They kind of lurch into each other.

Explains the further incidents, like in Silverstone, where Webber disobeyed direct orders, and then in Brazil where he almost took out Vettel at the first corner, then didn't do anything to help Vettel from then on. So when Vettel passed him in Malaysia, it was justified payback in my view. And the cause of the boo brigade and crap hurled towards Vettel... and there's Webber happy to play the "victim". He wasn't a victim. He just wasn't a team player at that point in his career. He kept signing one year contracts, and then wondered why the team was rallying behind him in the long terms plans. Duh!

I think he should have gone to Ferrari for a year or two before retiring. It would have done him good.

Much is explained by Webber's attitude, when he was ready to assist Alonso against his own teammates. How anyone can excuse that is hard to take. Today those two have an amicable relationship, but it is different from the one Seb has with Kimi, or even that he had with DR.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Much is explained by Webber's attitude, when he was ready to assist Alonso against his own teammates. How anyone can excuse that is hard to take. Today those two have an amicable relationship, but it is different from the one Seb has with Kimi, or even that he had with DR.

Yes I could not believe it when he was backing Alonso. I honestly felt he was a trouble maker at Red Bull. He seemed so happy for any stories to come out painting him as the struggling number two victim. And to behave in the way he did after Malaysia as though his first born had been stolen was classic. He had no problems not doing what he was told in Silverstone and Brazil, but after Malaysia, oh boy, did he play that victim violin loud.

After he retired, he came to his senses and it was nice to see he's friends with Vettel.

Seb has been well liked by many in pitlane. The fact he gets on handsomely with Kimi and Ricci is great, because Kimi's not friends with anyone. He's too laid back to care or take their crap lol. I very much doubt he's friends with Hamilton, but he does seem comfy around Nico, especially teasing him in the after race interviews.

[Emmcee 0]

@E - Do you have any reason to believe that Dr. Marko was mistaken? The public is not privy to everything that is going on between a driver and his team; not even all radio conversations were public. From my recollection racing line taken by Webber would have driven Vettel off track limits, unless he let Webber through first, and file behind him, however, considering relative positions of both cars, Webber really was not thinking straight.

webber did have the racing line and didn't even have to give Vettel the room he did and that's what I think everyone fails to realise, if that was schumi, he would've forced him into the grass or do the logical and only real thing to do and that's back of and have a go later or around the outside. Vettel then failed to use this famous "spacial awareness" and turned across webber. Webber did nothing wrong and had track position, he tried to avoid an accident but at the same time not let Seb past that's why there was a car width and a half of space to the left of him that Vettel so eagerly took and even if they didn't touch there, webber doesn't have to move back until the last moment so it would've made Seb's entry into the next corner extremely difficult and webber would've had him back on the straight anyway. As for marko, I know his wrong because I know what I saw.

1- Seb turn right across webber and nearly take the pair of them out.

2- marko lying through the skin of his teeth to basically say it was webber's fault, he didnt exactly say that because he didn't have the balls to. Webber was just a driver to Redbull, Seb was there first product to make it through there production line so to speak and end up at the top, millions invested in him, he immediately out popularises webber in the team, that's why all this happened. If webber bowed down and took it, Turkey would've been the last you heard of anything and everything would be hunkey dory.

[Sakae 0]

@KM - on driver's relationship - if I am not mistaken, both, Alonso and Hamilton are not members of GPDA thus distancing themselves from others. Similarly, Michael Schumacher in 2010 wasn't a member, but to his credit, at least participated as a silent member.

[Emmcee 0]

Ohhh, now I wasn't aware of there being stuff happening before Turkey. Turkey was in avoidable incident. Certainly Vettel did in no way mean to crash into Webber, but Webber moved too. Thus I think had Vettel not been so agressive contact wouldn't have happened, but if Webber wasn't so defensive and let Vettel have the pass, they wouldn't have made contact either. If Webber was being passed, then that particular battle was lost. He could have kept his nerve and fought back and tried to retake the place. But looking at the footage, it's like a magnet was between the cars. They kind of lurch into each other.

Explains the further incidents, like in Silverstone, where Webber disobeyed direct orders, and then in Brazil where he almost took out Vettel at the first corner, then didn't do anything to help Vettel from then on. So when Vettel passed him in Malaysia, it was justified payback in my view. And the cause of the boo brigade and crap hurled towards Vettel... and there's Webber happy to play the "victim". He wasn't a victim. He just wasn't a team player at that point in his career. He kept signing one year contracts, and then wondered why the team was rallying behind him in the long terms plans. Duh!

I think he should have gone to Ferrari for a year or two before retiring. It would have done him good.

There was nothing before Turkey as there wasn't any on track confrontation except Malaysia where webber like usual botched his start and Seb took first position. There is no proof of any animosity prior to Turkey and I have never have been told about it either. It was only really Redbull realised both drivers could be champion that year and they had to make a choice really who was going to be the one they back and they chose Vettel even though webber was miles ahead in the standings and winning more races. Proof was back then on who they supported and besides, you think webber would've been so pi$$ed in the Silverstone press conference after qually of the team didn't shaft him? webber isn't innocent by far in this debacle but I don't think he is the bad boy in either, As webber has a background in the sport prior to this with nothing popping up like this so it was the fire Redbull and Seb created, there doing the same with Verstappen now.

[rodders47 2]

I do wonder if ANY of the current F1 drivers read all the DRIVEL that is posted on this forum, I somehow doubt it as I for one sure get bloody bored with all the bulls##t

[BradSpeedMan 6]

There was nothing before Turkey as there wasn't any on track confrontation except Malaysia where webber like usual botched his start and Seb took first position. There is no proof of any animosity prior to Turkey and I have never have been told about it either. It was only really Redbull realised both drivers could be champion that year and they had to make a choice really who was going to be the one they back and they chose Vettel even though webber was miles ahead in the standings and winning more races. Proof was back then on who they supported and besides, you think webber would've been so pi$$ed in the Silverstone press conference after qually of the team didn't shaft him? webber isn't innocent by far in this debacle but I don't think he is the bad boy in either, As webber has a background in the sport prior to this with nothing popping up like this so it was the fire Redbull and Seb created, there doing the same with Verstappen now.

It was'nt a choice made by the RBR team on who they were going to back, Webber took himself out in that rain-shodded race, basically taking himself out of contention. Vettel retired while in the lead, but he still believed he could win

I've got a genuine concern that you don't listen to anything anyone will debate around certain topics, we've been here million times before.

[Emmcee 0]

Before that brad, they supported Vettel way before webber took himself out, even when webber was in way better looking shape for the title, they did what ever they could to make sure it was Seb who done it not mark and if Seb stuffed it up, Redbull would have looked like idiots instead of backing a much better option at the time. Nothing taken away from Seb as he did the job, but if he couldn't for some reason, Redbull would've had nothing to do for it. Have a go at me for not listening, it's you not reading posts fully, if you did, you would've realised this was before Korea, it's how I know you didn't read it.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Before that brad, they supported Vettel way before webber took himself out, even when webber was in way better looking shape for the title, they did what ever they could to make sure it was Seb who done it not mark and if Seb stuffed it up, Redbull would have looked like idiots instead of backing a much better option at the time. Nothing taken away from Seb as he did the job, but if he couldn't for some reason, Redbull would've had nothing to do for it. Have a go at me for not listening, it's you not reading posts fully, if you did, you would've realised this was before Korea, it's how I know you didn't read it.

The drivers had equal chance b4 the race in Korea! Webber blew it then and couldnt recover from that setback, while Vettel did. What dont u understand?

[Emmcee 0]

I just can't understand how blind you are to the fact they favoured Vettel ever since Turkey that year. If you look at it from an unbiased approach, webber simply got shafted. He never had a fair crack and when he did it was 2009, early 2010, after that, he had to fight even in his own team that he's has worked with for years, that brought the ugly side out in webber he felt he was stabbed in the back. In all honesty if people are saying that they were close on points anyway, any other team in the past be it Ferrari,Mclaren,Williams, whoever, they always backed the driver with the better results, wins, points, positions, webber had beaten Sebastian in all them almost all year, Seb only had more poles than mark at that point. See most people they claim they can "smell a rat" at some point but when it's as obvious as that and people just don't want to accept it, literally blows my mind, now it's a few years after multi 21 and it's fine now, bs, Seb was an a$$hole back then and would be now he he had to. Kimi just doesn't give a cramp and won't challenge Vettel for authority that's why it's all cool there, but if someone comes in and does, it will blow up. Be realistic and use common sense, wouldn't you back the driver you have invested millions in over the years to get him to the top while promoting your brand, or just some "average" driver who just has experience but struggles to be competitive consistently? Think about it realistically, that alone will prove redbull wanted to make it possible for Seb before mark.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I just can't understand how blind you are to the fact they favoured Vettel ever since Turkey that year. If you look at it from an unbiased approach, webber simply got shafted. He never had a fair crack and when he did it was 2009, early 2010, after that, he had to fight even in his own team that he's has worked with for years, that brought the ugly side out in webber he felt he was stabbed in the back. In all honesty if people are saying that they were close on points anyway, any other team in the past be it Ferrari,Mclaren,Williams, whoever, they always backed the driver with the better results, wins, points, positions, webber had beaten Sebastian in all them almost all year, Seb only had more poles than mark at that point. See most people they claim they can "smell a rat" at some point but when it's as obvious as that and people just don't want to accept it, literally blows my mind, now it's a few years after multi 21 and it's fine now, bs, Seb was an a$$hole back then and would be now he he had to. Kimi just doesn't give a cramp and won't challenge Vettel for authority that's why it's all cool there, but if someone comes in and does, it will blow up. Be realistic and use common sense, wouldn't you back the driver you have invested millions in over the years to get him to the top while promoting your brand, or just some "average" driver who just has experience but struggles to be competitive consistently? Think about it realistically, that alone will prove redbull wanted to make it possible for Seb before mark.

But Webber was leading in points going into that race?????????

[Sakae 0]

This is the very strange discussion. First, we are asked to understand why Webber was sour, since "this was his team", which big bad wolf (Vettel) stole away, and that was enough for him to get not so pleasant teammate. The thingies didn't get any better when Marko plot against him.

Must be after Horner lost that argument, and sunk Webber as well. Funny thing is, when something good happened, Horner collects credit, but something else happens, and Webber complains, it's all Marko/Vettel.

This is rather an emotional litany than serious analysis. Does really anyone think that Webber would have been cut if there was even a once feeling that he had any fighting chance against Vettel? I dare to say that the same ruthless Marko would have gotten rid of Vettel just as quickly as he has done to some other of his former drivers. If Webber was unhappy, then he should start with his own soul searching. I know the little bit about Austrians (but not too much), and I guarantee you one thing, in average they do not like to play games Webber engaged in, and if he p**sed Marko, it's his, and his business only, and not Vettel's.

[KoolMonkey 0]

It was'nt a choice made by the RBR team on who they were going to back, Webber took himself out in that rain-shodded race, basically taking himself out of contention. Vettel retired while in the lead, but he still believed he could win

I've got a genuine concern that you don't listen to anything anyone will debate around certain topics, we've been here million times before.

Some of us, you and me and others have come to that conclusion quite a few times. I don't mean to get down on someone, but I'd rather talk about the weather and food to be honest, than continue on about how Ricci DESTROYED Vettel and thus will forever be a better driver, how Vettel was a brat, and ruined Webbers career. How Marko did this, front wings and other thigns that, Horner boo hoo. Malaysia, OMG WTF end of world, Turkey uh oh is it raining yet? It's tired and you are completely correct, certain people do not listen, and even worse sometimes just start bringing up other topics completely unrelated to what everyone else is talking about to try to "win" and argument and "prove" a point.

Sooooo anyway, have you tried out the burritos at Zambreros? I'd have to say the best one I've had in my life. Epic! Will go back daily if I get the chance

Zambreros, do it! Nom noms.

[Emmcee 0]

But Webber was leading in points going into that race?????????

OMFG!!!!

[Emmcee 0]

This is the very strange discussion. First, we are asked to understand why Webber was sour, since "this was his team", which big bad wolf (Vettel) stole away, and that was enough for him to get not so pleasant teammate. The thingies didn't get any better when Marko plot against him.

Must be after Horner lost that argument, and sunk Webber as well. Funny thing is, when something good happened, Horner collects credit, but something else happens, and Webber complains, it's all Marko/Vettel.

This is rather an emotional litany than serious analysis. Does really anyone think that Webber would have been cut if there was even a once feeling that he had any fighting chance against Vettel? I dare to say that the same ruthless Marko would have gotten rid of Vettel just as quickly as he has done to some other of his former drivers. If Webber was unhappy, then he should start with his own soul searching. I know the little bit about Austrians (but not too much), and I guarantee you one thing, in average they do not like to play games Webber engaged in, and if he p**sed Marko, it's his, and his business only, and not Vettel's.

No way, look at if from a business standpoint instead of your own, they've invested millions in Vettel and sweet FA in webber, money rules the sport and they would want minimum loss, there's no way they would've dropped Vettel. Where do you get these things from? Did I say Redbull dropped webber or sacked him? Geez can't rwmber saying that.

[Kati 0]

How does every thread end up being about Webber and Vettel? Nice, you like Webber, cool. There's nothing we can say that will change your mind. It is clearly not open for discussions, it is just a bunch of things that you have already established as true because him and Ricciardo are clearly your favourite drivers. I could go on about what I feel about Webber and I don't think a few of you would like either, but it's MY opinion and there's nothing you can do to change it, like I can't change yours. Now, can we all just discuss things that are relevant right now, instead of this Vettel did this, Webber did that, but Vettel did this... bs? It is making so many threads annoying to read.

[Emmcee 0]

Some of us, you and me and others have come to that conclusion quite a few times. I don't mean to get down on someone, but I'd rather talk about the weather and food to be honest, than continue on about how Ricci DESTROYED Vettel and thus will forever be a better driver, how Vettel was a brat, and ruined Webbers career. How Marko did this, front wings and other thigns that, Horner boo hoo. Malaysia, OMG WTF end of world, Turkey uh oh is it raining yet? It's tired and you are completely correct, certain people do not listen, and even worse sometimes just start bringing up other topics completely unrelated to what everyone else is talking about to try to "win" and argument and "prove" a point.

Sooooo anyway, have you tried out the burritos at Zambreros? I'd have to say the best one I've had in my life. Epic! Will go back daily if I get the chance

Zambreros, do it! Nom noms.

How many of you are in there? You claim what happened and Turkey is no big issues yet you loose your sh17 when a driver forces one of your favourites to adjust his line and hit another favourite driver all because he got a shock kvyat was there when he turned in and you want murder for an accident that didn't happen. That's ALL this in a nutshell, how certain things are fine if kimi or Vettel does them and then against mankind as whole when it's someone else, just looking at your comments from Russia 2015 to China this year, exactly the same except you want it for one driver and not the other. That's my whole issue with the entire forum, stop using your love and hatred to alter realistic views and opinions simply because you can't say they made a mistake, or simply because people can't say there wrong. I try play it fair across the board 100% even congratulate drivers I dislike simply because they deserved it by the effort and job they put in, not you guys though, nuh uhh, always an excuse, some out of this world theory, it's rediculous because you use common sense in real life, well I hope people do but fail to adopt the same practice in every aspect of life and without concidwring what the other person my know or have experienced, nope, what I saw is right and everyone else is wrong, even the people with racing expierence, even the drivers or paddock, I know more, that's the attitude around here, sorry for the rant but some people need to take a step back and just look at everything open mines and less biased, I could show you things about this world that would blow your mind and make you question the world as you know it, your entirely life you know is a lie and you have been lied to. Soon as you can figure that out, we may be closer in wave lengths, but that's how I learnt to figure people out in seconds, that along with studying body language for a while, you can see the different groups society has made itself into. That's why some comments are harious on here. Anyway no I haven't had those burritos or whatever, to busy stuffing around with my wrexy!

[Kati 0]

YOU ARE ALL BIASED. LOL WE ALL ARE!!

Its natural human behaviour, it doesn't make anyone worse or better here! No one here is the master of all truth!

[Emmcee 0]

I never said that but if you can look at things abit more open minded it would be a lot better. Crap I can't even mention certain drivers in context before all hell breaks loose and I still haven't gotten to the point of the post that started the argument, that's what does my head in. I'll go for example "kimi did very well today but I think he could go faster" then it all starts "you think kimi isn't driving fast enough" and rah rah rah, that's what I mean, can't even mention certain names. We will be biased to a certain degree as we have favourite drivers, your right there Kati but I think it won't kill people just to leave there man or woman crushes out of there decision making. All I ever think about is thank god there not stewards I have to race in front of, drivers would be consistently getting punished and it would the same drivers while others do similar things and nothing happens, it's like they put it in themselves to create the line of judgement between right and wrong, mind you with no psyical racing experience, just what they think is right.