Kvyat Is A Dead Man

[Sakae 0]

There is something which bothers me, because either I have different standards, or do not understand racing objectives well.

Take this last incident; a lot of people, including RB is refusing to accept Kvyat's responsibility for the second hit into Ferrari, yet think of it rationally. How was Vettel suppose to react in this age when a change of gearbox and another equipment is heavily penalized? Have they really expect Vettel to step on it and perhaps magnify the damage even more only because he hasn't taken a moment for his c#ckpit related assessment whether he can continue, at what speed, or whether he should be heading for pits? I am really lost how people can hang this on Vettel?

With respect to China, I said this before, encouragiment of his dive was wrong, because close analysis showed that had Ferrari continued, there would hade been the massive pile up, with Kvyat in middle of it, as he was taken gravitating across under excessive speed, and broadside in the front of both cars. He with many others thought this kind of driving is fine. Saturday in Sochi - the same, and then he continues on Sunday. Now he will lose his job with all probability, but not for what he did to Vettel, but he screwed up DR, and that was big NO-NO for his bosses.

[Emmcee 0]

Who's hanging it on Vettel? Iam not and certainly the second incident Iam not either, like I've said a million times already Sakai, kvyat was at fault that caused the collision but he couldn't avoid the second one but the second one was a reaction of the first one he created, no driver would've been able to react different to kvyat when he hit Vettel the second time obviously Vettel slowed for a reason and kvyat couldn't stop in time, where is that blaming Vettel?

[Sakae 0]

Who's hanging it on Vettel? Iam not and certainly the second incident Iam not either, like I've said a million times already Sakai, kvyat was at fault that caused the collision but he couldn't avoid the second one but the second one was a reaction of the first one he created, no driver would've been able to react different to kvyat when he hit Vettel the second time obviously Vettel slowed for a reason and kvyat couldn't stop in time, where is that blaming Vettel?

Dr. Marko is hanging it on Vettel by virtue of absolving Kvyat from responsibility for the second hit. I've posted a link to that interview earlier on. (There were others).

[Emmcee 0]

Bah marko, who listens to that idiot nowadays? With his bung eye how the heck would he know what he is even looking at?

[Sakae 0]

Marko has a law degree, university, he was a racer and is generally a successful man. Calling him idiot used to be Webber's attitude, but I am almost certain it is over the top.

[Emmcee 0]

He failed to qualify for one or two gp's and carries on like he has f1 experience as a driver spanning 3 decades, they words that come out of his mouth then so no justice for what you claim he has.

[Sakae 0]

He failed to qualify for one or two gp's and carries on like he has f1 experience as a driver spanning 3 decades, they words that come out of his mouth then so no justice for what you claim he has.

OK, I give up. Marko, according to you then, has no law degree, he was not attending university, he is not an ex-racer, and despite that he owns a business, he is not a successful man. Happy now?

[spiral.out 0]

Dr. Marko is hanging it on Vettel by virtue of absolving Kvyat from responsibility for the second hit. I've posted a link to that interview earlier on. (There were others).

He said the opposite of that. He said maybe the first was understandable but the second wasnt.

Marko would be an absolute b@stard to work for.

[spiral.out 0]

I DONT BELIEVE IT

http://hasmaldonadocrashedtoday.com/take-me-back.html

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

For what it's worth I think that the first accident was a mistake by Kvyat, and something that can happen at the start of a race, sadly other drivers were damaged for no fault of their own but that's racing, the second one I personally think that has nothing to do with Kvyat but with the fact that for some reason Perez lifted during that left hander, Vettel had to lift as well and Kvyat didn't see what was happening ahead of him and punted Vettel, IMHO all very simple.

From the outside it looks as if at RBR they are focusing on how to get rid of Kvyat rather than on the racing. I respect Dr Marko for what he did as a driver, but he's not the kind of guy that I'd like to do business with

[Sakae 0]

He said the opposite of that. He said maybe the first was understandable but the second wasn't.

Marko would be an absolute b@stard to work for.

There is a misunderstanding between quotes. You are referring to China as the first incident for which he did not blame Kvyat, whereas I have been referring to his comments about the first and the second hit in the last race. We are talking about different events. He blamed Kvyat for the hit of yesterday, but not the second one, whereas I am looking at it as both are being one incident.

[Emmcee 0]

OK, I give up. Marko, according to you then, has no law degree, he was not attending university, he is not an ex-racer, and despite that he owns a business, he is not a successful man. Happy now?

Where did I say that? Stop putting words in my mouth mate, just because he has a degree or whatever, he can still be an a$$hole and from what I've heard seen and read, he is.

[Sakae 0]

For what it's worth I think that the first accident was a mistake by Kvyat, and something that can happen at the start of a race, sadly other drivers were damaged for no fault of their own but that's racing, the second one I personally think that has nothing to do with Kvyat but with the fact that for some reason Perez lifted during that left hander, Vettel had to lift as well and Kvyat didn't see what was happening ahead of him and punted Vettel, IMHO all very simple.

From the outside it looks as if at RBR they are focusing on how to get rid of Kvyat rather than on the racing. I respect Dr Marko for what he did as a driver, but he's not the kind of guy that I'd like to do business with

That's an interesting interpretation, and could be the right one. For some reason, based on China, Saturday FP3 and now, I have been looking at Kvyat as being little reckless how he dives into turns. But then, I am not a racer, so what do I know. Otherwise, I have no problem with accepting that first lap is the really risky time when most accidents do happen.

[Emmcee 0]

Talking open wheelers here, anytime three wide run into a bottle neck, there's bound to be tears, very rarely there isn't.

[KoolMonkey 0]

For what it's worth I think that the first accident was a mistake by Kvyat, and something that can happen at the start of a race, sadly other drivers were damaged for no fault of their own but that's racing, the second one I personally think that has nothing to do with Kvyat but with the fact that for some reason Perez lifted during that left hander, Vettel had to lift as well and Kvyat didn't see what was happening ahead of him and punted Vettel, IMHO all very simple.

From the outside it looks as if at RBR they are focusing on how to get rid of Kvyat rather than on the racing. I respect Dr Marko for what he did as a driver, but he's not the kind of guy that I'd like to do business with

I've mentioned this before but folks here seemed to have missed it. Right before Kvyat the Russian Idiot crashed into Vettel the second time, if you are watching the onboard video from Vettel's car, you will see Perez's car slide out a little as his tyre is deflating. Vettel saw this and backed off a little, not sure if Perez was going to spin out or what would happen. It was attentive by Vettel, he was aware of his surroundings.

Yes it could have been bad lucky by Kvyat not knowing Vettel had to lift due to Perez and his own car possibly having damage. But it was Kvyat who still caused both incidents. Not Alonso, Not Button, Not Hamilton, Not Nico, Not Hulkenburg, Not Kimi, No Vettel. Does that make sense to anyone? Kvyat does NOT have the spatial awareness or skill at this point to avoid these incidents. That's why he's hit Vettel 3x times in 2x races. The other drivers haven't because they back off, or give space when it's needed. It directly correlates to what's happening.

The only reason RBR are in a fuss is because he also hit Ricci. Had it just been Kvyat hitting Vettel, they wouldn't be so up in arms over this and would probably just try to paint this as a "racing incident". But most teams would do this anyway as it seems to be the standard MO nowdays.

We don't need to talk about Marko, his achievements or history as a driver. It's irrelevant. Kvyat is still to blame for both crashes in Russia and I personally feel in China as well. He basically did the same thing twice, but braking late, locking up and then trying to blame the lockup for not being able to stop in time lol. Utter idiot.

[Emmcee 0]

Yeah I saw that but I've also wonder if Seb had a suspension failure after the initial contact as he seemed to pitch into the barrier like a suspension issue. We have also seen in the past when the cars get to a certain speed and there close enough, if they have to slam on the brakes like kvyat had to or tried to, you loose all downforce and control of the car, Iam not saying it's an excuse but could it be a possibility? We've seen a few drivers do it, most notibly mark webber ramming the back of Hamilton in Melbourne one year saying it was lack of downforce from following to close, a number of drivers have mentioned the same thing.

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

if you are watching the onboard video from Vettel's car, you will see Perez's car slide out a little as his tyre is deflating. Vettel saw this and backed off a little, not sure if Perez was going to spin out or what would happen. It was attentive by Vettel, he was aware of his surroundings.

sure Vettel was aware of his surroundings but how was Kvyat supposed to know what was happening ahead of Vettel? I'm curious to understand this because the only answer that I have is that he should have kept a wide berth from Vettel, ie he wasn't supposed to race. And I'm not even getting into arguing that at the start of a race the safest thing to do is to try and be as fast as you can (to avoid being hit by a bunch of raging bulls behind you). Kvyat was certainly wrong on turn 2, a minor offence but I think that no one can argue that if anyone was at fault it was him, but for what happened in turn 3 he's the least at fault. And I'm surprised that we even have to talk about it because we should all perfectly understand why Kvyat couldn't know what was happening to Perez: we all have a 3rd brake light mounted in our cars because under normal circumstances you cannot see what the cars in front are doing, and it was the very same thing for Kvyat, there is no way that he could have seen that Perez had to lift. It's very sorry that he hit Vettel once again but it was not his fault (as it wasn't his fault in China). And that doesn't mean that I'm a Kvyat fan and I have a grudge against Vettel, quite the opposite, it's just that we should consider the fact for what they are, without red tinted glasses (come on guys, even Italy's state television, very biased pro Ferrari, said that in China Kvyat was the victim and that what happened at turn 3 yesterday is not that straightforward)

[Sakae 0]

I am trying to understand the exact sequence of development at turn 3, but isn't it the truth, that all began actually with the altercation in the turn 2? After the hit, regardless of Perez or anything else, one would have expected Kvyat to back off because he could not know how badly Ferrari was damaged, and he should have assumed the worst as a precautionary measure. That's what I have initially thought. I am not sure why he thought that he can ram a car, and would think that Vettel should nevermind and continue as nothing had happened. Point is, Vettel perhaps could do that, but neither he or Kvyat knew that in the very first moment. I have actually read a German interview in which Vettel was not talking about Perez, but his own effort in the c#ckpit to assess consequences of that first impact, when he, to his surprise, incurred the second hit.

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

I am trying to understand the exact sequence of development at turn 3, but isn't it the truth, that all began actually with the altercation in the turn 2? After the hit, regardless of Perez or anything else, one would have expected Kvyat to back off because he could not know how badly Ferrari was damaged, and he should have assumed the worst as a precautionary measure.

no, had he backed off he would have been hit by the other cars (and he had a very narrow escape at turn 3, you just have to look how much faster than car passed him to his right). since he saw that Vettel could accellerate out of turn 2 as if there was no problem whatsoever all that Kvyat had to do (and the same applies to Ricciardo and any one who was around them) was to push the pedal to the metal and move on.

[Sakae 0]

OK, fine, but is it reasonable to assume by Kvyat, that Vettel after the first hit could actually accelerate happily away? Vettel, according to his own testimony, was busy at that moment with driving, checking his feeling of the steering, and also checking dashboard for any out of norm indication which should not be there. Retroactively we can assume a lot of things, but in the heat of that moment things did seemed somewhat differently.

[Emmcee 0]

sure Vettel was aware of his surroundings but how was Kvyat supposed to know what was happening ahead of Vettel? I'm curious to understand this because the only answer that I have is that he should have kept a wide berth from Vettel, ie he wasn't supposed to race. And I'm not even getting into arguing that at the start of a race the safest thing to do is to try and be as fast as you can (to avoid being hit by a bunch of raging bulls behind you). Kvyat was certainly wrong on turn 2, a minor offence but I think that no one can argue that if anyone was at fault it was him, but for what happened in turn 3 he's the least at fault. And I'm surprised that we even have to talk about it because we should all perfectly understand why Kvyat couldn't know what was happening to Perez: we all have a 3rd brake light mounted in our cars because under normal circumstances you cannot see what the cars in front are doing, and it was the very same thing for Kvyat, there is no way that he could have seen that Perez had to lift. It's very sorry that he hit Vettel once again but it was not his fault (as it wasn't his fault in China). And that doesn't mean that I'm a Kvyat fan and I have a grudge against Vettel, quite the opposite, it's just that we should consider the fact for what they are, without red tinted glasses (come on guys, even Italy's state television, very biased pro Ferrari, said that in China Kvyat was the victim and that what happened at turn 3 yesterday is not that straightforward)

Same as in China with Vettel, kvyat said how the hell was he able to see all the cars? He only has two eyes. I think we're giving him far to much crap for basically his first "real" mistake, it's like people were waiting for him to slip up and immediately look at this compared to some of the brilliant drives he has put in.

[Massa 0]

Drivers like Kvyat and Verstappen may well find their careers unraveling if F1 ever got itself back to driver-challenging regulations. The current formula is better at masking some of the clumsier drivers because it is more forgiving. I'm biased against any racer younger than I am, for I am a very bitter person , but I have a suspicion some of the "hottest young talents" of today wouldn't have looked so good if they had been rookies even as recently as, say, 2008.

(Which is what makes Räikkönen's 2001 and 2002 so mind-blowing...a huge leap into unfriendly F1 cars and couldn't even be bothered. Contrast with Massa, who needed like...four seasons in F1 cars before he looked to be in control. And even then, only when they brought him the correct visor).

[Emmcee 0]

Lmao agree once again. Lmao about massa, so true, it's always someone else's fault or it's because of the wrong visor. I remember one GP in the wet he was going mental over the radio asking for a clear visor and Ferrari basically told him chill the f out, it's on it's way.

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

OK, fine, but is it reasonable to assume by Kvyat, that Vettel after the first hit could actually accelerate happily away?

we don't have to assume it, it happened in the real world, he happily accelerated out of turn 2 as if nothing had happened

[KoolMonkey 0]

Yes I do find this strange too of Kvyat. Normally any proper race car driver after such a shunt or crash wil regroup, regrather, see how the car is and if need by, limp to the pits for a new nose and tyres. But Kvyat just carried on like a bulldozer as though nothing had happened. He clearly had a busted front nose, probably more damage.

It comes down to not having all the skills. Maturity and awareness of your surroundings are just as important and raw speed. Knowing when to make an overtake, when to give room to the guy whose managed to beat you to the corner, takes just as much if not more skill to deal with. Because we see it from the young guys all the time. Maldonado, GRO, Perez, Kvyat. Fast but they all can't seem to stop in time somehow. Maybe Brembo make Sh#tty brakes, perhaps. Or they are just too immature and caught up in the moment and bam! it's all over before they know it.