Kvyat Is A Dead Man

[Sakae 0]

we don't have to assume it, it happened in the real world, he happily accelerated out of turn 2 as if nothing had happened

Did you mean Vettel accelerated away? David Coulthard put an onus on Vettel for his "sharp deacceleration". No excuses for Vettel, or any concern about the condition of his vehicle.

[Sakae 0]

Yes I do find this strange too of Kvyat. Normally any proper race car driver after such a shunt or crash wil regroup, regrather, see how the car is and if need by, limp to the pits for a new nose and tyres. But Kvyat just carried on like a bulldozer as though nothing had happened. He clearly had a busted front nose, probably more damage.

It comes down to not having all the skills. Maturity and awareness of your surroundings are just as important and raw speed. Knowing when to make an overtake, when to give room to the guy whose managed to beat you to the corner, takes just as much if not more skill to deal with. Because we see it from the young guys all the time. Maldonado, GRO, Perez, Kvyat. Fast but they all can't seem to stop in time somehow. Maybe Brembo make Sh#tty brakes, perhaps. Or they are just too immature and caught up in the moment and bam! it's all over before they know it.

I thought that Brembo actually makes pretty good brakes, but their end-users are sometimes taking them on the limit. That's perception that I have.

[KoolMonkey 0]

I was being sarcastic. Kvyat is the type of driver to blame anyone but himself. Him "apologising" is only due to wanting to save his seat.

Brembo make fantastic brakes it was a scarcastic sentence from me.

[Sakae 0]

I was being sarcastic. Kvyat is the type of driver to blame anyone but himself. Him "apologising" is only due to wanting to save his seat.

Brembo make fantastic brakes it was a scarcastic sentence from me.

I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I've learned the long time ago, when I have interjected sarcasm, it almost without exception backfired on me, and someone got seriously upset, so, I try to avoid it.

[Emmcee 0]

Yes I do find this strange too of Kvyat. Normally any proper race car driver after such a shunt or crash wil regroup, regrather, see how the car is and if need by, limp to the pits for a new nose and tyres. But Kvyat just carried on like a bulldozer as though nothing had happened. He clearly had a busted front nose, probably more damage.

It comes down to not having all the skills. Maturity and awareness of your surroundings are just as important and raw speed. Knowing when to make an overtake, when to give room to the guy whose managed to beat you to the corner, takes just as much if not more skill to deal with. Because we see it from the young guys all the time. Maldonado, GRO, Perez, Kvyat. Fast but they all can't seem to stop in time somehow. Maybe Brembo make Sh#tty brakes, perhaps. Or they are just too immature and caught up in the moment and bam! it's all over before they know it.

Obviously your all missing the point, kvyat didn't come imediatly into the pits did he? I don't think he did therefore I beleive he did a quick "feel" of the car the only way you can by weaving the wheel and pressed on, if it was as badly damaged he would've pitted immediately not a few laps later like I beleive he did stacking Ricciardo aswell, therefore I think his assessment of the situation was quite correct. He locked the rear tyres and after that your a passenger, locking the tyres in a kart,if you don't spin it, you loose all control to so I could only imagine what it would be like on that scale. But a lot of people don't like reasoning with reality as a possibility that is thought up in there head seems more logical and real than an explanation from the driver itself and some form of experience from yourself. I still think kvyat made a mistake but Iam starting to get the feeling more is made out of a simple error. Once you loose control of your car, you don't have the ability to choose how the impact will be, it just happens.

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

Yes I do find this strange too of Kvyat. Normally any proper race car driver after such a shunt or crash wil regroup, regrather, see how the car is and if need by, limp to the pits for a new nose and tyres. But Kvyat just carried on like a bulldozer as though nothing had happened. He clearly had a busted front nose, probably more damage.

It comes down to not having all the skills. Maturity and awareness of your surroundings are just as important and raw speed. Knowing when to make an overtake, when to give room to the guy whose managed to beat you to the corner, takes just as much if not more skill to deal with. Because we see it from the young guys all the time. Maldonado, GRO, Perez, Kvyat. Fast but they all can't seem to stop in time somehow. Maybe Brembo make Sh#tty brakes, perhaps. Or they are just too immature and caught up in the moment and bam! it's all over before they know it.

don't get me wrong but what you wrote only proves that you have never raced a car yourself, at the start of a race the most important thing to do is get moving and fast, no one ever checks if his car has problems after a minor coming together with another car and only then accelerates out of a turn, it doesn't really work like that. Apart from the fact that you can feel immediately if there is something seriously wrong with your car, if you are stuck at the first corner you are certain to be hit by someone else coming hard from behind. Rule #1 in terms of safety is: always get out of the way quickly

[Sakae 0]

don't get me wrong but what you wrote only proves that you have never raced a car yourself, at the start of a race the most important thing to do is get moving and fast, no one ever checks if his car has problems after a minor coming together with another car and only then accelerates out of a turn, it doesn't really work like that. Apart from the fact that you can feel immediately if there is something seriously wrong with your car, if you are stuck at the first corner you are certain to be hit by someone else coming hard from behind. Rule #1 in terms of safety is: always get out of the way quickly

In this case, however, it was Vettel claiming that he was checking what's wrong right after the first hit. Maybe there was something else and unusual which made him do so; in China, for example, his gearbox took a hit (and that came up only before Sochi), and we do not know the extent of damage after what happened in Sochi. I am also reading today, that he incurred a puncture - sounded like before the second hit, but I am not entirely sure.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Vettel had lots of things going on. Perez with a puncture sliding out, his own car having been hit the first time, possibly with a puncture, and then him also trying to get a bit of a feel for the car.

At any rate, Kvyat will pay with is career. It might be this alone that does him in, but it's clear they want Max in the seat due to losing him if they don't promote him. Better to jettison the less popular driver as everyone loves Ricci and why shouldn't they he's a good guy.

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

In this case, however, it was Vettel claiming that he was checking what's wrong right after the first hit. Maybe there was something else and unusual which made him do so; in China, for example, his gearbox took a hit (and that came up only before Sochi), and we do not know the extent of damage after what happened in Sochi. I am also reading today, that he incurred a puncture - sounded like before the second hit, but I am not entirely sure.

He could accelerate as nothing had happened so we must assume that his car was not badly done, and from the articles that I've seen he said that he slowed down because Perez was slowing down and all over the place with a puncture, so nothing wrong with Vettel's acceleration. And obviously he had some damage, we know that his diffuser was blown to pieces (we can see that from the picture that Sakae posted), but nothing that prevented him from pushing to the max. And when they check for damage in an F1 car it's not like we do it on our road cars, they don't stop by the side of the road and see if anything's wrong, they just chuck the car into the first available corner and if they get out of it it means that everything's fine. Vettel could have easily been looking at his steering wheel to see if he had any flashing light, but that was about it (and that didn't prevented him to check what was happening around him as he noticed that Perez had a problem and was slowing down).

My point is very simple: someone was bound to hit someone else the moment that Perez slowed down, and the "proof" of that was how quickly you see a car going past Kvyat to the right of the screen, the guys behind Vettel didn't stood a chance of seeing what was happening to Perez and all they could do was slow down as soon as they saw the car in front of them slowing down, ie. not soon enough. Pity it was Kvyat that hit Vettel (in Italy we say "non c'è due senza tre" that could be translated as "if it happens twice then it's going to happen for a third time as well"). I really feel for Vettel, IMHO he was the only one who could have attempted to challenge the Mercs, sadly a chain of events beyond the control of any driver resulted in him going straight into the wall, it's a pity, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's someone else's fault

[Sakae 0]

He could accelerate as nothing had happened so we must assume that his car was not badly done, and from the articles that I've seen he said that he slowed down because Perez was slowing down and all over the place with a puncture, so nothing wrong with Vettel's acceleration. And obviously he had some damage, we know that his diffuser was blown to pieces (we can see that from the picture that Sakae posted), but nothing that prevented him from pushing to the max. And when they check for damage in an F1 car it's not like we do it on our road cars, they don't stop by the side of the road and see if anything's wrong, they just chuck the car into the first available corner and if they get out of it it means that everything's fine. Vettel could have easily been looking at his steering wheel to see if he had any flashing light, but that was about it (and that didn't prevented him to check what was happening around him as he noticed that Perez had a problem and was slowing down).

My point is very simple: someone was bound to hit someone else the moment that Perez slowed down, and the "proof" of that was how quickly you see a car going past Kvyat to the right of the screen, the guys behind Vettel didn't stood a chance of seeing what was happening to Perez and all they could do was slow down as soon as they saw the car in front of them slowing down, ie. not soon enough. Pity it was Kvyat that hit Vettel (in Italy we say "non c'è due senza tre" that could be translated as "if it happens twice then it's going to happen for a third time as well"). I really feel for Vettel, IMHO he was the only one who could have attempted to challenge the Mercs, sadly a chain of events beyond the control of any driver resulted in him going straight into the wall, it's a pity, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's someone else's fault

Thanks for your extensive explanation. Some reporters focused on Ferrari's slow down only, without seeking the explanation of causes. On my TV screen, this incident for some reason actually was quite badly underreported. Additional comments and videos began to dribble in only next day on the internet, as the convergence of interests in the subject started to unravel.

[Emmcee 0]

don't get me wrong but what you wrote only proves that you have never raced a car yourself, at the start of a race the most important thing to do is get moving and fast, no one ever checks if his car has problems after a minor coming together with another car and only then accelerates out of a turn, it doesn't really work like that. Apart from the fact that you can feel immediately if there is something seriously wrong with your car, if you are stuck at the first corner you are certain to be hit by someone else coming hard from behind. Rule #1 in terms of safety is: always get out of the way quickly

Yep exactly 100% correct, as your getting out of there within a tenth of a second maybe even less, you can feel if its drivable on the limit anymore or immediate repairs are required and even then we have seen guys try bring cars back that should be parked. Cornelius I've tried to describe incident to members using a similar experience I've had in karting and my experience is wrong, Iam incorrect, it's the same even when a driver says the same thing, there wrong, the armchair critic knows what he saw.

[Sakae 0]

You guys are discussing the normal reaction of racers after they incur relatively minor hit, but I am raising this here however for the third time, that Vettel in a German interview said that he slowed down, and was something checking... From some quarters, he had received criticism for that. Publius explained the issue with Perez.

[Emmcee 0]

You can't just stop on the racing line to see if your car has an issue, Seb had a puncture aswell so his odds of being hit by someone was quite high concidering where he was on the circuit as he would've had to cut back across the line eventually, just so happened to be kvyat behind him and no other driver would've been able to react so quick anyway and if they did it would require so much turning of the wheel that it would unsettle the rear of the car and the car would most likely spin of anyway. Vettel's reaction in China would be more appropriate for Russia.

[Sakae 0]

Motorsport

Dr. Marko - "Let's put it this way," he said. "Kvyat was over-motivated. Braking too late once and hitting another car would be acceptable in front of his home crowd, but this doesn't apply for the second crash.

"It's a pity because he not only ruined Vettel's race -- and Ricciardo's race -- but also his own race. He had to do an extra stop. It was a day of disaster for Red Bull."

It was the second successive race in which Kvyat had crashed into Vettel, having angered the German by careering into his car the start of the Chinese Grand Prix two weeks ealier.

http://www.gptoday.c...after_disaster/

http://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-vettel-sostituisce-il-cambio-a-barcellona-733297/

If I understand this correctly, Seb needs again a new gearbox. Since he did not finish, probably there wouldn't be any penalties.

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

You guys are discussing the normal reaction of racers after they incur relatively minor hit, but I am raising this here however for the third time, that Vettel in a German interview said that he slowed down, and was something checking... From some quarters, he had received criticism for that. Publius explained the issue with Perez.

I'd be interested to see that interview, one the one hand it would helm me refresh mein Deutsch, on the other I would learn something new as im my experience you never check that you car is ok after the first corner when most of the field is behind you and charging, you try to get out of the way if you really think that something might not be right. Also I'd like to understand what he was checking because if he was checking how much downforce he had lost he could easily do that while he was flat out, same for a puncture or gearbox damage, etc, they have computers that perform those checks continuosly and so "checking" might mean that he took a quick look at his steering wheel

[Sakae 0]

I'd be interested to see that interview, one the one hand it would helm me refresh mein Deutsch, on the other I would learn something new as im my experience you never check that you car is ok after the first corner when most of the field is behind you and charging, you try to get out of the way if you really think that something might not be right. Also I'd like to understand what he was checking because if he was checking how much downforce he had lost he could easily do that while he was flat out, same for a puncture or gearbox damage, etc, they have computers that perform those checks continuosly and so "checking" might mean that he took a quick look at his steering wheel

I would gladly provide a link Publius, but I am not sure if all TV interviews are on YouTube in the first instance, and how to then find it in the second instance. I shall try, but no promises.

[Lyria 0]

There is talk that Red Bull could swap Kvyat and Verstappen over as early as Spain. If they do, that shows how angry they are at Kvyat for his behaviour!

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-bull-could-swap-verstappen-kvyat-as-early-as-spanish-gp-733475/

[Insider 0]

Not sure I would have gone with that title in this topic. I hear Daniil is alive and well. Verstappen for Kyvat is really much of a muchness from where I sit; you're getting one hot head for another. MV is way more arrogant than DK and breaks more cars on average. I think the swop is harsh and KV will be deflecting the press all season long over this. I think he's a better all-round package but Sainz would have been better still. Carlos is very much the real deal for me though I completely disagree with moving DK per se. I'd be out of RBR if I were DK tomorrow. They have basically put him on the naughty step but that reflects more the Hitlerian regime of Obergruppenführer Marko than sensible team direction. The guy has been shamed publicly and that has no place in 21st century man management and certainly F1 by my book.

[spiral.out 0]

Haha its confirmed hes goooooone! Hows that for public shame and humiliation? BOOM. Get out bi4tch! And as a result of his own home GP!! Smack down!

[Sakae 0]

I am not so sure right now, that MV, given a chance, would have done probably the same as Kvyat has.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Haha its confirmed hes goooooone! Hows that for public shame and humiliation? BOOM. Get out bi4tch! And as a result of his own home GP!! Smack down!

Haha I saw that headline this morning and went sweeet! But it's speculative and coming from the Dutch press. So I'm not sure it's confirmed just yet unless you guys have been a press release?

At any rate, at a previous time Horner said that within the RBR family drivers can be moved up and down. I would take a punt that the drivers have a contract with Red Bull and then through that it's determined what team they can drive for. That way they can be moved up or down and it doesn't affect anything in terms of their contracts.

I still think Kvyat was bumped up to RBR way too soon, but that came about due to Vettel leaving without alot of notice. Max might stumble too you know. He did hit Sainz earlier in a race and lots it over the radio too. So we'll see how that goes.

Red Bull demand the best in any sport they sponsor. But they also sponsor so many cool things as well for athletes that don't even compete.

But I think F1 is their top focus at present and you can't really fault their approach to how they' let go of so many drivers. They all got a chance, they just didn't make the grade.

And tellingly, how many ex-RBR drivers have found homes in other teams!!! If they were so good, surely they would have been picked up by another.

[spiral.out 0]

I concur.

[Emmcee 0]

I think this is an issue to do with Verstappen and not essentially kvyat as it may seem. Seems like management were looking for an excuse to get max in a lead car before risk loosing him all together, we've heard rumours of both Mercedes and Ferrari intrested in him and both have feeder teams to send him to if need be. Verstappens management would've pounced on this chance and either Redbull risk loosing a driver who could possible turn out to be a future world champion once he matures and every must be able to see Max's potential but he has to get there yet and promoting him in place of kvyat when he trashes cars worse and in a more frequent Occassion, not to mention his radio out bursts so it's got me thinking, it wasn't China or Russia that got kvyat booted as he came fresh from a podium, it's in team politics that did. Funny how they want the drivers others want hey? Teams want Ricciardo so they keep him and teams also want max so they've ditched kvyat in the process and why? They've invested millions into him, all this will do is whack his confidence, it's a brain dead move you ask me, max has to hit the ground running.

[spiral.out 0]

Garbage. MV should have had the seat from day 1.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Not sure I would have gone with that title in this topic. I hear Daniil is alive and well. Verstappen for Kyvat is really much of a muchness from where I sit; you're getting one hot head for another. MV is way more arrogant than DK and breaks more cars on average. I think the swop is harsh and KV will be deflecting the press all season long over this. I think he's a better all-round package but Sainz would have been better still. Carlos is very much the real deal for me though I completely disagree with moving DK per se. I'd be out of RBR if I were DK tomorrow. They have basically put him on the naughty step but that reflects more the Hitlerian regime of Obergruppenführer Marko than sensible team direction. The guy has been shamed publicly and that has no place in 21st century man management and certainly F1 by my book.

Agree