So dive bombing is now a legit move!?

[Emmcee 0]

Why didn't Vettel back out? Verstappen had every right to be there and the move was being done without locking a wheel or anything. Vettel turned expecting people to make room for him and that's the honest truth, Kimi left space cars can go three wide around the hairpin, no worries it's just the all can't have the same line. Did Verstappen lock a wheel? No, norther did kvyat so that means both had control of there cars. A divebomb means little control and possibly using the other car to stop you running of. If verstappens move in questioned by some, then every single overtaking move on the inside should be to. Vettel was at fault and as much as Vettel fans don't like it it's the truth, he can't go his whole career without making a mistake, or is he the same as Felipe massa?

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

12 hours ago, Emmcee said:

You can to some extent mate and it's the experience also, who wouldn't make a move on the hairpin? Everyone knows that move, even AI cars in the f1 games do to. I can't see how Max's move was declared a divebomb I just can't see it, kimi gave him enough room and Seb just turned in expecting for some one to give way to him, it didn't happen so he has to blame someone.

Jacques Vuilleneuve explained this very clearly: everyone with a little bit of experience knows that at La Source there is not enough room for 3 cars abreast.

I asked for a picture of 3 cars abrest at La Source and got nothing, sadly it doesn't really work like that, 3 cars side by side there are the beginning of a crash.

I'm sure that video games are full of very exciting features, and there are plenty of overtaking opportunities at La Source, sadly it never happens with 3 cars abrest, that's the difference between fantasy (a video game) and reality

If you think that the rear view mirrors of a single seater are anything remotely similar to your road car then all I can do is strongly suggest that you try to look through them, even from a stationary single seater, then you'll tell what you see. And after that add the vibration. And that still doesn't inclue the angles involved: Verstappen was too far on the right of Vettel for him to see Max, he was in a blind spot. Plus there's another little thing that you seem to forget: Kimi's car was between Vettel and Max, either Ferrari have invented some worder rear view mirrors that allow you to see through hard metal or it's getting hard to argue that Vettel could have seen through Kimi's car (who seems to be bright red rather than made of glass)

All of this leads me to the key thing here: if on the outside of Kimi there was sometone else would we be having this conversation? am I allowed to have a few doubts?

 

[Sakae 0]

I do not understand those vitriolic anti-Vettel rhetorics. A few minutes ago I read, how Button was speaking about problems with tires. Vettel said something similar couple of days ago, and in media he was marked as ranting, whining, etc. It is really unacceptable, and definitely not correct. While Publius makes a lot of sense to me and I tend to think what he is saying, it is apparent here, that not too many do, because the same weak of a reason mantra is being repeated. Had Verstappen delayed his attack, there would not have been any incident. Not in T1, because Kimi would have taken the line Seb was leaving for him. What Max did was ill advised, and would have ended up in tears, Vettel or not. It's not difficult to understand that - if one tries.

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

1 hour ago, Emmcee said:

Why didn't Vettel back out? 

Because he's paid to race and since he was clear ahead had a right to take the turn? 

 

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

59 minutes ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

Jacques Vuilleneuve explained this very clearly: everyone with a little bit of experience knows that at La Source there is not enough room for 3 cars abreast.

I asked for a picture of 3 cars abrest at La Source and got nothing, sadly it doesn't really work like that, 3 cars side by side there are the beginning of a crash.

I'm sure that video games are full of very exciting features, and there are plenty of overtaking opportunities at La Source, sadly it never happens with 3 cars abrest, that's the difference between fantasy (a video game) and reality

If you think that the rear view mirrors of a single seater are anything remotely similar to your road car then all I can do is strongly suggest that you try to look through them, even from a stationary single seater, then you'll tell what you see. And after that add the vibration. And that still doesn't inclue the angles involved: Verstappen was too far on the right of Vettel for him to see Max, he was in a blind spot. Plus there's another little thing that you seem to forget: Kimi's car was between Vettel and Max, either Ferrari have invented some worder rear view mirrors that allow you to see through hard metal or it's getting hard to argue that Vettel could have seen through Kimi's car (who seems to be bright red rather than made of glass)

All of this leads me to the key thing here: if on the outside of Kimi there was sometone else would we be having this conversation? am I allowed to have a few doubts?

 

I don't underdtand why this came out a second time... and I can't move from page 2 of a thread to page 3, can someone asvise please

[Sakae 0]

On my notebook moving forward (from 2 to p. 3) is of no issue, and is done automatically. I do experience however two other problems. (i) I cannot go back in a thread to follow conversation for continuity, as page cannot be refreshed, and (ii) I am receiving unsolicited notices on my email that someone has published a post. All my efforts to switch it off failed. This was reported already some time ago.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

3 hours ago, Emmcee said:

Why didn't Vettel back out? Verstappen had every right to be there and the move was being done without locking a wheel or anything. Vettel turned expecting people to make room for him and that's the honest truth, Kimi left space cars can go three wide around the hairpin, no worries it's just the all can't have the same line. Did Verstappen lock a wheel? No, norther did kvyat so that means both had control of there cars. A divebomb means little control and possibly using the other car to stop you running of. If verstappens move in questioned by some, then every single overtaking move on the inside should be to. Vettel was at fault and as much as Vettel fans don't like it it's the truth, he can't go his whole career without making a mistake, or is he the same as Felipe massa?

Bud... please listen to me, you're starting to get worse with every post in this specific thread. a Divebomb does not have to include locking wheels, in fact, him not locking wheels shows how inept that move from the maniac was

[Emmcee 0]

18 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Bud... please listen to me, you're starting to get worse with every post in this specific thread. a Divebomb does not have to include locking wheels, in fact, him not locking wheels shows how inept that move from the maniac was

You serious? Not locking the wheel proves even more so that he has it under control as long as he isn't hurtling towards them at twice the speed or whatever, which he wasn't. I've got no more to say as Iam in total shock that people still cant admit Seb made a bad move or miscalculation or whatever, it's beyond a joke, like I said earlier I can guarantee if the positions were reversed, it would still be Max's fault. I agree he is to aggressive and what he did to Kimi on the straight was totally wrong but the first corner he had every right to be there it was Seb who caused it.

[Sakae 0]

it seems that all that reasoning Publius so well marshall for us was time wasted, and no minds were changed. 

[Emmcee 0]

Yeah alright mate, Seb can do no wrong can he. He could crap on your face and you would blame yourself. Sebs just an angry,frustrated little man ATM and like Johnny Herbert said, if it was that bad, he would've been penalised. He said the driver on the panel was ex drive Danny Sullivan who has plenty of experience so if he didn't penalise, then I agree, for the simple and common sense fact, he has more experience than I do. Publius's post is correct because you agree with it? Your so transparent sakae and what I posted was not a waste of time either? Do your concluding that anything anyone posts is a waste of time because you don't agree with it? Get over yourself mate. Vettel fan alright, you act just the same lol.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

13 hours ago, Emmcee said:

You serious? Not locking the wheel proves even more so that he has it under control as long as he isn't hurtling towards them at twice the speed or whatever, which he wasn't. I've got no more to say as Iam in total shock that people still cant admit Seb made a bad move or miscalculation or whatever, it's beyond a joke, like I said earlier I can guarantee if the positions were reversed, it would still be Max's fault. I agree he is to aggressive and what he did to Kimi on the straight was totally wrong but the first corner he had every right to be there it was Seb who caused it.

No, it shows the absolute depth of his insane, inept move without considering the bloody consequences. This guy just did'nt give a s##t pushing himself in there. I have'nt seen such a ridiculous amateurish move in years!!!

[Emmcee 0]

He wasn't coming in much faster than the cars braking for the hairpin. We saw that with grosjean a few years back, THAT was a divebomb. Yet max had it under control, tell me this, if Vettel wasn't on the outside, would've max and Kimi made it round. I think they would've and you know they would've to, that's how it has to be looked at, not blaming the kid, he makes stupid mistakes but this wasn't one of them. I'll just wait for Vettel to make a similar move and watch the blame get shifted of him once again.

[Sakae 0]

On 30 August 2016 at 9:40 AM, Sakae said:

Excellent review, yet there is no point to argue in here. Haters will hate, and as clearly demonstrated in here, no amount of rational explanation will sway them to change their minds. So much is obvious. Perusing various websites, and scanning comments after Spa, I feel overwhelmed how much (irrational) behavior there is, in some cases exceeding limits of acceptance. Makes one wonder whether life outside forums would be perhaps a better choice how to enjoy the sport. FiA, in person of Whiting, has a lot to answer after the last race.

Private meeting with drivers in red to hash hash the issue, or MV will be watched?

[Emmcee 0]

This is just a "snow ball" affect from other things that have happened. He has been pretty aggressive and dangerous in some things he has done but spa, he did nothing wrong, it's just Seb and Ferrari having a sook and there persuading others to feel the way they do. Like I've mentioned before, if the positions were reversed it would still be Max's fault. Can you honestly sit there Sakae and say you would blame Vettel if the positions were reversed? I doubt that. Can you please comment on that as I've said the same thing a few times but Vettel fans seem to skip that and not answer it. Funny that.

[Sakae 0]

Verstappen is not going to change his driving style just because drivers tell him, especially when Alonso came out that he thinks MV has done no wrong in the last race. One must love those two, or wait...maybe not really. 

[Emmcee 0]

You still didn't answer my question, would verstappen be at fault if the positions were reversed? Would have the accident happened if Vettel wasn't there? Everyone seems to ignore this question.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

6 hours ago, Emmcee said:

You still didn't answer my question, would verstappen be at fault if the positions were reversed? Would have the accident happened if Vettel wasn't there? Everyone seems to ignore this question.

Vettel would never even attempt such a ludricous move

[BradSpeedMan 6]

This made me smile...

FP1

"Next car behind you is Verstappen five seconds back," Renault tells Magnussen. "Try to stay ahead of Verstappen." They don't ask for much, do they."

MadMax has now gotten a reputation does'nt he

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Hope he learns after this...

 

http://gptoday.com/full_story/view/578872/Whiting_meets_Verstappen_after_warning_flag_discussion/

[Sakae 0]

The article comes along with Alonso's/Hamilton's wisdom, declaring to the whole world, that Max has done nothing wrong at Spa. Why was meeting needed then, one could ask. 

[Emmcee 0]

5 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Vettel would never even attempt such a ludricous move

No because he is doing them on the outside instead. We might as well ban overtaking as any move where a car simply out brakes another car is divebombing. It's a joke. I am lost for words over this as to how it's a "divebomb"

[Sakae 0]

I define "dive-bomb" as type of an overtaking maneuver in car racing, in which positive outcome is not as much in control of a driver who is committed to it, but in control of other drivers who are consequently forced to react defensively, thus facilitating imposed aggression upon them. Short of that, maneuver fails, and damage is done, usually through clashing. Spa, episode at T1, was perfect example of that. Vettel didn't have sufficient information on the diving-type of development which was out of his scope of vision, consequently did not responded proportionally, and the event ended in all around damages which affected race results.

Verstappen is remaining me not as much of Senna, as other "artist" of the past - Mansell - who was well known for his diving skills. Some fans love it, I don't. To me it serves as a gross cover for lacking racing finesse. 

[Sakae 0]

MV most likely received gentle slap on the wrist, naughty boy, and it si over now. What I find however interesting, that out of the blue, Whiting is suddenly in the news, that alledgedly he wants out of his current role, and work for a team on the grid.

[Emmcee 0]

6 hours ago, Sakae said:

I define "dive-bomb" as type of an overtaking maneuver in car racing, in which positive outcome is not as much in control of a driver who is committed to it, but in control of other drivers who are consequently forced to react defensively, thus facilitating imposed aggression upon them. Short of that, maneuver fails, and damage is done, usually through clashing. Spa, episode at T1, was perfect example of that. Vettel didn't have sufficient information on the diving-type of development which was out of his scope of vision, consequently did not responded proportionally, and the event ended in all around damages which affected race results.

Verstappen is remaining me not as much of Senna, as other "artist" of the past - Mansell - who was well known for his diving skills. Some fans love it, I don't. To me it serves as a gross cover for lacking racing finesse. 

I just can't take how,everyone knows cars attempt to pass in that corner but Vettel didn't.

[Sakae 0]

Oh this time I agree with you. Vettel should have left space for 20 cars, because they were racing too, and not just a space for one (Kimi). How thoughtless of him! (You know, just in case they all try to fit in).