Kubica is back !!!

[Ruslan 0]

I was always a big fan of the Pole and it is nice to see him return. I gather he impressed in testing, so it should be a faster Williams next year.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Don't think it's official yet

[Ruslan 0]

No, it is not official.......yet.

[Sakae 0]

21 November 2017   19:22 (CET)

The driver job market, limited as it is, should probably look towards developing drivers of the future, rather than be smitten by nostalgia of dubious value (IMHO, of course). One needs to separate sorry-feeling for someone who got himself into a tight spot due to his own actions from life realities in this sport. Driving an F1 car which is vibrating, requires abnormal body strength, and in sudden, unexpected impact, wheel can break driver's hand. Risk exist for all drivers.

Moreover, Vettel once said, his hands transmit sensory feeling how a tire is working or not with the tarmac. I take it from his comment, that a driver for proper feedback needs his hands to function properly on several levels. 

This gambit with ex-driver seems PR show whilst generates too many concerns next to plethora of new issues (in-fighting with Liberty) that will require full attention and no distractions. I think Williams is aware of those risks, which is why they are hesitating. Keep Massa if you must, but that's about that. There are some other capable drivers without a drive next year.

Don't do it!

[Ruslan 0]

I knew this thread would generate a negative response from you.

Great driver who did not have a chance to show all he could do the first time around. Glad to see he is getting a second chance (even though Williams is saying that it is not a done deal yet).

 

[Sakae 0]

22 November 2017   7:06 (CET)

Yes, as a fan of BMW team, a team which gave Kubica a chance to race in this series, I was rather outraged by this driver rhetoric against the hand that fed him. However today I do not want to go back, and despite being flattered with your attempt to solicit a rise in me, question is, where am I wrong in my last post above? I think there are practical issues, why a driver in his condition has to be concerned about. I am sure you know difference between a small rally car on rough road and F1 one, which demands feel for tires and feedback is paramount. If it was important before, now it is critical (IMO).

[BradSpeedMan 6]

3 hours ago, Ruslan said:

I knew this thread would generate a negative response from you.

Great driver who did not have a chance to show all he could do the first time around. Glad to see he is getting a second chance (even though Williams is saying that it is not a done deal yet).

 

His rather stating the obvious using simple logic backed up by valuable information

 

Kubica had it, and lost it due to his own silly decision. I think it's a mistake taking him back. Having said that, hope I'm being proven wrong

[Ruslan 0]

Well, I happen to like drivers racing outside of F1, so I think criticizing him for getting injured in a rally crash is pretty unjustified. These are supposed to race car drivers......not a##-kissing corporate drones.

[Sakae 0]

22 November 2017   16:03 (CET)

I beg to differ on basis that his is not totally free time and he can do as he wants. Drivers do have contract to support their F1 team whole year around. Sponsors do count on driver's availability, their promotional campaign has driver's face plastered all over and the team's gear is optimized to driver's physical form, car has certain design features built in to support driver's racing style. Etc. This is not 7 UP store where you come and go as you desire. Kubica was an integral part of the large system, and he failed.

I am not sure why we need to state obvious, and I think the same about all drivers who take similar risks outside of their office, which includes Seb and his ROC drives. (Not this year however). I have stated more or less the same before his accident, and subsequently rather sizable Polish community were all over me (Hitler, Saddam, a dictator, etc. One fellow compared me to a Iraqi minister of propaganda) because I was in opposition to their boy having good time. At the end I got banned for 2 weeks, to keep peace on the board, when moderators also thought that my ideas were just too "crazy" for their (peanut size) brains.

[Massa 0]

Yes, Kubica had a contract year-round.  But that contract allowed him to race that rally car.  So, you can't really argue, "BUT HE LET HIS EMPLOYER DOWN!!!!" when his employer allowed him to do that.  You're more than welcome to the opinion that teams should not allow drivers to race outside F1; that's up to you.  But if the team and driver didn't agree to that (which they did not), you can't try to use the team's interests against the driver.

I'm also curious what you do for work and if you spend all your free time in the way you think creates the least risk or even the most benefit to your employer...

[Sakae 0]

His employer was under pressure to please him if my recollection is correct, and they have made a mistake. On the other hand, Kubica was a grown man with a brain of certain size, and not some adolescent whose hormones were in charge when he made that decision. Excuses for him just never end, and you would not be first who blamed his team for allowing him to go and rally.  (I am on my own time, in the case you wonder).

[Massa 0]

His employer is a multi-million dollar business unit of a humongous, multinational corporation.  One person cannot put that much pressure on them, even when there are relatively few drivers capable of winning in F1.  The team knew the risks, knew that other teams didn't allow it, but determined that if that was what it took to get Kubica's services, then Kubica was worth it.  And to imply that a racing driver wanting to race other types of cars is something on par with the decision-making of a hormonal adolescent would certainly be news to Jim Clark or Mario Andretti.

There is more to life than what you do for work.  Cycling on public roads is very dangerous.  If I die or become incapacitated while cycling—which is an outcome that really does happen—my students will be without a teacher, and I like to think that my teaching adds value to their lives and the world around them.  Maybe it will sound arrogant, but I think my job has more positive impact on the world than that of an F1 driver—my audience may be much smaller, and I may be paid much less, but I think people receiving a quality education is more important than people having an F1 race to watch.  None of that stops me from cycling [vestibular migraines have, for the time being], though, because I have to live my life, too.  There's no value in what I do if I have to destroy my life to do it, and there's no value in helping students realize what they can do if I set the example that they can't go on to do the things that make life livable.  Plus, I won't do what I do well if I'm miserable from not being able to do things that help me recharge.  And, plainly, I don't think anyone would say that I should stop cycling because it will cost my employer money trying to replace me if I get hit by a bus (sure, it may be harder to replace an F1 driver than it is to replace me, because fewer people are qualified to do what an F1 driver does, but there is still an excess of drivers with a Super License to the number of seats.  Most of us have our "favorite" should-be-in-F1-but-is-instead-racing-sports-cars-or-sitting-at-home-or-doing-commentary-or-racing-IndyCar-or-what-ever driver).

Like I said, you're totally entitled to your opinion that the team made the wrong choice to allow him to race, and that he made the wrong choice to race.  But you can't say that the choice was wrong because he let his team down—his team allowed him to do it.  If they didn't want him to, they could've stopped it, and Kubica, not having any other competitive rides open to him at that time, wouldn't have walked away.  And if they didn't want him to, and he refused to drive for them, they could've hired any number of other drivers.  Obviously, on everyone's free will, they decided that it was in both of their best interests to allow it.  You act like Kubica wanted to throw his F1 career away.  It seems to me that someone spending countless years trying to overcome a physical limitation just to race in F1 again, when he could have easily raced some other type of car for the rest of time, would have felt the exact opposite.  He determined it was worth the risk, the same way it was worth the risk to drive in F1 in the first place and potentially be hit in the head by a spring like the driver he might replace, or worse.

[Quiet One 15]

Yay! Kubica is back! Hamilton, Alonso, Verstappen, Ricciardo, Pérez, Ocon, Vettel and now Kubica, and you can add to that list Hulkenberg and Sainz. That's a grid filled with talent. If only cars were as close in level as half of the drivers' grid is...

Not sure how would Kubica fare, but he certainly was among the best drivers of his generation. One tends to forget the amount of journeymen that filled the grid in the past decade and a half. 

[Sakae 0]

13 hours ago, Massa said:

His...

23 November 2017   8:23 (CET)

It seems to me there is generational gap between us, and our ethical values are significantly different. Not better, or worse, just different, and before Kubica's purported fame grows beyond our sphere and enters fantasy land reserved to beautiful memories only, one needs to look back on attrition rates of his opponents for whatever reasons, and how Kubica benefited from those situations. However this is as much of my time I really want to spend on this individual.   

[BradSpeedMan 6]

15 hours ago, Quiet One said:

Yay! Kubica is back! Hamilton, Alonso, Verstappen, Ricciardo, Pérez, Ocon, Vettel and now Kubica, and you can add to that list Hulkenberg and Sainz. That's a grid filled with talent. If only cars were as close in level as half of the drivers' grid is...

Not sure how would Kubica fare, but he certainly was among the best drivers of his generation. One tends to forget the amount of journeymen that filled the grid in the past decade and a half. 

U forgot another you punk

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

On 21/11/2017 at 2:24 PM, Ruslan said:

I was always a big fan of the Pole and it is nice to see him return. I gather he impressed in testing, so it should be a faster Williams next year.

It's a nice story and he certainly deserved another chance, having said that I think that some of the critics like JV or Montoya have a point, I hope that Williams gave him a thorough test, it would be cruel to give him hope and after a few races let him down because they realise that notiwthstanding good lap times he's not really fully fit to race an F1 car, lap times are not the only issues at stake here, can he take evasive action if needed? I really don't know and I hope that they tested this kind of scenario.

If he can pass all the tests I'm very glad for him. And if he's back at 100% I think that he'll find that Williams won't be a very comfortable place for him, if he trashes Stroll (who had a few good races and many really very very bad ones) he'll be in trouble. I see no reason for him not to rattle Stroll if he's uop to his old levels of speed  one has to wonder if The Strolls have really thought carefully about this 

[Sakae 0]

Firstly, this driver unfortunately never will be at his 100% for well known reasons. Try to ask yourself instead a question such as, what kind of a racing series this is, if a handicapped person could participate on equal terms with his peers, and strive in it? Something wrong with that idea.

[Ruslan 0]

9 hours ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

It's a nice story and he certainly deserved another chance, having said that I think that some of the critics like JV or Montoya have a point, I hope that Williams gave him a thorough test, it would be cruel to give him hope and after a few races let him down because they realise that notiwthstanding good lap times he's not really fully fit to race an F1 car, lap times are not the only issues at stake here, can he take evasive action if needed? I really don't know and I hope that they tested this kind of scenario.

If he can pass all the tests I'm very glad for him. And if he's back at 100% I think that he'll find that Williams won't be a very comfortable place for him, if he trashes Stroll (who had a few good races and many really very very bad ones) he'll be in trouble. I see no reason for him not to rattle Stroll if he's uop to his old levels of speed  one has to wonder if The Strolls have really thought carefully about this 

Well, he has been working at a comeback from several years....so assume he has resolved most of the issues/limitations with his arm. As it is, Williams can always use a good story, and if his comeback is not completely embarrassing, this is a good story.

I do wonder what are the financials behind this. How much are they paying Kubica or is someone paying Williams? As I gather they were considering other past drivers like Di Resta, there are some financial limitations.

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

5 hours ago, Ruslan said:

I do wonder what are the financials behind this. How much are they paying Kubica or is someone paying Williams? As I gather they were considering other past drivers like Di Resta, there are some financial limitations.

I have seen somewhere that he needs a 2 years deal otherwise it will cost him a small fortune in insurance pay-out. It also seems that Nico Rosberg, who IMHO is a very smart cookie, has arranged USD 10m of sponsorship to gracevully nudge Kubica forward with Williams

[Ruslan 0]

14 hours ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

I have seen somewhere that he needs a 2 years deal otherwise it will cost him a small fortune in insurance pay-out. It also seems that Nico Rosberg, who IMHO is a very smart cookie, has arranged USD 10m of sponsorship to gracevully nudge Kubica forward with Williams

Well, kind of guessing that there had to money behind it. Kubica was not going to get the seat based just upon his looks. $10M sounds believable. Rosberg is truly an impressive guy. One of these guys that is much more than just a driver.

Massa says that he already knows who is replacing him (and he is not guessing).

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

5 hours ago, Ruslan said:

Massa says that he already knows who is replacing him (and he is not guessing).

I really don't understand why they don't name their driver and move on, it makes them look really desperate to have some headlines, it's as if they were saying "hey guys, at Williams we know that we no longer hit the headlines with our racing results and we want to be in the press somehow, so we won't let you know until we got enough media exposure".

 

I know that many of you here like Williams, I really don't, I really don't respect them much for their approach to drivers, they treat people as expendible commodities, this might have been acceptable in the 1960s (not by me, even if I wasn't around  ), treating people who risk their lives, or anyone else for that matter, like that IMHO just shows what a bunch of sad people they must be at Williams

[Sakae 0]

25 November 2017   9:11 (CET)

Massa might be guessing, however confirmation of Williams's choice of driver line up for next year is supposedly to be finalized after a comparative testing of two drivers, Kubica is one of them, to be conducted after the last race in AD. Testing or not, that of course not precludes that they made their mind already. It sounds like however it is not Wehrlein, who might be out of the F1 next season.

 

Looks like I was counting Wehrlein out too fast.

Quote

‘TINY POSSIBILITY’ OF WILLIAMS SEAT FOR WEHRLEIN IN 2018 – WOLFF

 

[radical-one 0]

Kubica ;

One DAY too OLD

One HAIR too BALD

 

Enough said....

[Ruslan 0]

19 hours ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

I really don't understand why they don't name their driver and move on, it makes them look really desperate to have some headlines, it's as if they were saying "hey guys, at Williams we know that we no longer hit the headlines with our racing results and we want to be in the press somehow, so we won't let you know until we got enough media exposure".

 

I know that many of you here like Williams, I really don't, I really don't respect them much for their approach to drivers, they treat people as expendible commodities, this might have been acceptable in the 1960s (not by me, even if I wasn't around  ), treating people who risk their lives, or anyone else for that matter, like that IMHO just shows what a bunch of sad people they must be at Williams

Well, they probably have a date and venue set up for their announcement......but everyone inside the team already knows who it is.

 

[Sakae 0]

11 December 2017   19:49 (CET)

So, is it over now?

Quote

It's believed Kubica's outright performance was also the reason Renault chose to chase Carlos Sainz as a late-season replacement for Jolyon Palmer, despite Kubica's multiple tests with the French manufacturer.

22-year-old Sirotkin, who most recently held a Renault reserve role, brings backing worth an estimated $20 million (£15m) from SMP Racing.

Kubica could now head back to the World Endurance Championship where he secured a seat before pulling out ahead of the season opener in order to chase his dream F1 return.