Fia To Punish Teams Instead Of Michelin

[Kaciaj 0]

I was right...it's good to be able to say this...I was right...

On monday I said what happened at Indy was just the latest episode of a political war which see the FIA siding with Ferrari against the other nine teams. They could have proven me wrong by fining Michelin....but no!!!Unbelievably they are going to punish the only innocent guys..the teams!!!!!Which is their fault? To be constanly quicker than Ferrari with less testing?

Prove me wrong guys..isn't F.1 the only international sport in the world where one of the teams involved in the competition has a commercial agreement with the governing body?

Isn't F.1 the only sport in which the other teams have to pay a sum for "hystorical contribution" to one of them each year?

Why should someone who has acted to preserve the life of his drivers and of the spectators be punished? For the fault of his tyre supplier?

Shame on you Max....Your father has had shame in the '40s for having been the british nazi leader and you are deserving shame now.

Shame on you Bernie, you've worked so much to put the constructors in F.1 and now you are playing such shameful political games.

And, in the end..shame on you Ferrari, for having betrayed the teams last year by signing this ****ing Concorde Agreement after many years of war together.

[bajo39 0]

It is very simple: The teams decided not to run at reduced speeds through Turn 13. Because of this, the fans were robbed of what promised to be an exciting GP. For this they should be punished severely.

[Kaciaj 0]

It is very simple: The teams decided not to run at reduced speeds through Turn 13. Because of this, the fans were robbed of what promised to be an exciting GP. For this they should be punished severely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you understand that driving at reduced speed into such a quick corner was even worse than putting in a chicane in terms of safety?

[bajo39 0]

Do you understand that driving at reduced speed into such a quick corner was even worse than putting in a chicane in terms of safety?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It could be or it could not be - allow me to explain. Running competitive cars through a corner at >100kph difference in speed is dangerous... If they are not separated. Think of the blend line at pit exit. When the cars are at vastly different speeds, they are separated by a white line (perhaps two lines with a buffer between would be safest) which they cannot cross. To add further safety, the corner is run under single yellows.

[AutoRacer5 0]

Ferrari were not at fault. dammit it was Michelin and FIA, not Ferrari.

[bajo39 0]

Ferrari were not at fault. dammit it was Michelin and FIA, not Ferrari.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Clearly Michelin were at fault* but I don't see how the FIA were. You also did not mention the teams which chose not to run at reduced speeds without legitimate grounds. In my mind, the teams need to be punished as they were the ones who committed an unforgiveable crime.

*I don't think you can punish Michelin for screwing up the tyres. It is a competitive business and every tolerance is pushed to the limit. On top of that, the design of such complex things as F1 racing tyres is incredibly difficult. Occasionaly screwing up is understandable.

[nojvnof1 0]

"Occasionaly screwing up is understandable."

yes, but what about the consequences of that screw up. We'd either have had the threat of drivers getting injured if they raced, and then we had what happened on Sunday, a 6 car disgrace.

"In my mind, the teams need to be punished as they were the ones who committed an unforgiveable crime."

I disagree. The teams were provided with a faulty product which put their employees (drivers) at risk of injury or death. Don't get me wrong, what happened on Sunday was embarrasing and a disgrace, but I'd rather see that than 12 drivers in the wall.

[Fed up 0]

"Occasionaly screwing up is understandable."

yes, but what about the consequences of that screw up. We'd either have had the threat of drivers getting injured if they raced, and then we had what happened on Sunday, a 6 car disgrace.

"In my mind, the teams need to be punished as they were the ones who committed an unforgiveable crime."

I disagree. The teams were provided with a faulty product which put their employees (drivers) at risk of injury or death. Don't get me wrong, what happened on Sunday was embarrasing and a disgrace, but I'd rather see that than 12 drivers in the wall.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have a look at the number of practice laps the michelin shod teams actually completed. It is well known that the toyota's problems were caused by them using tyre pressures outside the recommended parameters

[nojvnof1 0]

well then explain the problems faced by McLaren, Red Bull and Sauber.

[Fed up 0]

well then explain the problems faced by McLaren, Red Bull and Sauber.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pedro at McClaren completed 80 laps on Friday/Saturday

Kimi 30 laps

JPM - 30 laps

ITV claimed McClaren had no problems with their tyres

Sauber attended the INdy test and should have had up todate data

DC wanted to race and could be heard on the pit radio requesting permission. This proves to me that the decision not to race was political as drivers, especially DC, only take calculated risks

[nojvnof1 0]

"Sauber attended the INdy test and should have had up todate data"

the test was at Monza, NO TEAMS tested at Indy, they never have. Yes, the drivers did do alot of laps, however it was reported that inspection of one of de la Rosa's tyres was about to fail, and RBR and Sauber also reported problems.

If it were up to the drivers alone, I have no doubt we'd have seen a full grid, sadly it wasn't.

[Fed up 0]

"Sauber attended the INdy test and should have had up todate data"

the test was at Monza, NO TEAMS tested at Indy, they never have. Yes, the drivers did do alot of laps, however it was reported that inspection of one of de la Rosa's tyres was about to fail, and RBR and Sauber also reported problems.

If it were up to the drivers alone, I have no doubt we'd have seen a full grid, sadly it wasn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If that is the case, please accept my apologies. I guess Monza doesn't have a banked section like turn 13.

Why has this not been made clear in various reports

[nojvnof1 0]

I think F1 teams are only allowed to test at specified circuits, with none of them having banked corners. There is one at Monza, but that has been disused for decades and is there more as a symbol of the old track. BStone got their info from Firestone from the Indy 500.

[AutoRacer5 0]

Clearly Michelin were at fault* but I don't see how the FIA were. You also did not mention the teams which chose not to run at reduced speeds without legitimate grounds. In my mind, the teams need to be punished as they were the ones who committed an unforgiveable crime.

*I don't think you can punish Michelin for screwing up the tyres. It is a competitive business and every tolerance is pushed to the limit. On top of that, the design of such complex things as F1 racing tyres is incredibly difficult. Occasionaly screwing up is understandable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Michelin didnt bring the right tires, they ****ed up big time. FIA couldnt punish Michelin, so they are at fault for that and not coming up with a solution.

[bajo39 0]

I think F1 teams are only allowed to test at specified circuits, with none of them having banked corners. There is one at Monza, but that has been disused for decades and is there more as a symbol of the old track. BStone got their info from Firestone from the Indy 500.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BAR and Sauber both tested at Indy after it was resurfaced.

[Fed up 0]

BAR and Sauber both tested at Indy after it was resurfaced.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you sure, some have argued that the test was actually carried out at Monza

[bajo39 0]

Are you sure, some have argued that the test was actually carried out at Monza

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not positive, no. But I have read reports that make that claim, I will see if I can find any.

[Taku 0]

nojvnof1 has researched it, refer his above post.

according to the sauber press releases there is no reference to a specific test AT indy, but a test in prep FOR indy.

think about it, when have you ever heard of teams testing in the usa at indianapolous? it doesn't make sense.

[Senna 0]

Michelin could have tested at Rockingham motor speedway.

[Jenson_Rules 0]

I'm not positive, no. But I have read reports that make that claim, I will see if I can find any.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what you on about, it was at monza with ferrari!

[Kennye 0]

This is 100% Michelin's fault and they should be made to pay big time!!! The teams were allowed to change their tires as often as possible providing they were able to prove it was a safety issue.

If they attempted to slow down for t-13, it would not have been for long. Ever try and hold your speed down as someone passes you on the highway, you speed up without even knowing it. Now think of being a professional and only having one speed.... go as fast as possible all the time. They would not have been able to keep their speed down. Even if they did, accidents happen when there is a large difference in speed.

I do agree, the problem was with Toyota, they came into the weekend hell bent on having their wing in every publication they could. They wanted the US market to know that Toyota was #1, they ran their tires under inflated and were told to bring them up to spec on Friday. When asked about running a few laps with the chicane in place, Toyota said they could not because Truly only had enough fuel for a lap or two. That was why he was on the poll. They were not out to win, just to get the poll in the US market.

There has been no F1 Testing at Indy, but after the track was resurfaced and ground down twice to fix the bad resurfacing the IRL and NASCAR folks did extensive testing. The IRL uses FIRESTONE tires on their cars so Bridgestone had access to all of the test data from that testing. That had to help them with their design and they knew they would have the edge here at the USGP.

I have not heard anyone make that connection yet....

Oh, and I already reserved my tix for 06...

See you there hopefully

[bajo39 0]

If they attempted to slow down for t-13, it would not have been for long. Ever try and hold your speed down as someone passes you on the highway, you speed up without even knowing it. Now think of being a professional and only having one speed.... go as fast as possible all the time. They would not have been able to keep their speed down. Even if they did, accidents happen when there is a large difference in speed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is not necessarily true. They could mark off a slow and a fast lane for the Bridgestone and Michelin runners and then monitor speeds in the slow lane the same way they do for in the pit lane. This would keep the drivers well under control and make racing in this fashion safe.

[Fed up 0]

This is not necessarily true. They could mark off a slow and a fast lane for the Bridgestone and Michelin runners and then monitor speeds in the slow lane the same way they do for in the pit lane. This would keep the drivers well under control and make racing in this fashion safe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Read the full max interview

[bajo39 0]

Read the full max interview

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I just did. Amazingly, or not if you understand the magic of logical thinking, we have independently come to the same conclusions. This is what he said in connection with having the Michelin runners racing at reduced speed in Turn 13:

Q. How can you expect a racing driver to run at reduced speed through a corner?

Mosley: They do it all the time and that is exactly what Michelin requested. If they have a puncture they reduce their speed until they can change a wheel; if they have a brake problem they adjust their driving to overcome it. They also adjust their speed and driving technique to preserve tyres and brakes when their fuel load is heavy. Choosing the correct speed is a fundamental skill for a racing driver.

Q. But that would have been unfair, surely some would have gone through the corner faster than others?

Mosley: No, Michelin wanted their cars slowed in Turn 13. They could have given their teams a maximum speed. We offered to set up a speed trap and show a black and orange flag to any Michelin driver exceeding the speed limit. He would then have had to call in the pits

[Kay 0]

I hope the Michelin teams don't get punished and I have written a letter to the teams and FIA to that effect. There is no point complaining you don't like something if you are unwilling to do anything about it.